Debate Championship III-4th and 5th Aug - Page 2

Originally posted by: T.

 

             The word "culture" is commonly defined as "a way of life." More specifically, it is the way of life of a particular society at a particular time and place.[ii] Some say that Western influences have corrupted South Asian culture to such an extent that it is on the brink of extinction. I strongly disagree with this statement!

 

South Asian culture has always evolved throughout the ages. Our lifestyles today are definitely not the same as the lifestyle of a Neanderthal. For the most part, it is fair to say that we have progressed a great deal technologically. The progress has been via a combination of internal and external influences.

Point to be noted: "progressing" is not Westernization.

 

In my opinion, "loss of culture" is a faulty way of describing this evolution of the South Asian way of life.

 

From the time of the Aryan "invasion" of 1500 BCE to the IT revolution of modern times, the subcontinent has gone through numerous changes. Yet, we have always preserved the innate goodness in our ancient civilizations.

 

The Aryans (Greeks, Persians and Romans) gave us Holy Scriptures in the form of the four Vedas, which are pivotal to Hindu tradition. A series of invasions from the north, including the most long lasting one by Central Asian ruler and Mughal dynasty founder Zahir-ud-din Mohammad Babar, brought Islam into our country. The Mughals also brought with them exquisite art and architecture – who can forget the Taj Mahal – one of the seven wonders of the world?

 

It could be argued that the Aryans, Mughals and most recently, the British devastated the cultures of the initial inhabitants of the subcontinent. I disagree.

 

Shiva or his symbolic phallic pillar, the lingam was worshipped by indigenous people of the Indus Valley civilizations before the Aryan Invasion. It was a symbol of fertility and bounty. Today, there are approx. 220 million Shaivites all over the world.[iii] The Indian Temple Portal gives a list of over 80 major Shiva Temples in India alone![iv] Even the Aryans could not destroy an ancient faith, which was pivotal to the people of that civilization.

 

The Mughal invasions did not destroy Indian culture or Hinduism. Emperor Akbar was known to have held a conference for all existing religions in India in order to understand them better. Today, 80% of the Indian population comprises of Hindus.[v] Yet, we have also accepted other religions into our culture. The subcontinent has always stressed that we have unity in diversity.

 

The British came into our country and gave it its legal system. While we can rightly blame the British for exploiting us economically, we cannot deny that they in turn educated our country's freedom fighters and social workers – Mahatma Gandhi, Pandit Nehru, Ram Mohan Roy, etc.

Yes BUT educated in which language? English ? Today, there are probably thousands schools in India which have "english" as thier instruction language. WHY? Why not hindi? That's our national language right? Now is this not losing out language which is an important part of our "culture"?

These fighters awakened the Indian consciousness, they appealed to the ancient, deep-rooted bond that connected all of us – irrespective of caste, community or region – as Indians.

Yes exactly thetr "awakaned" us. Indians boycotte dteh foreign goods and even burnt foreign goods. Mahatma gandhi went to england with his goat because he dint want to drink foreign milk.😃

My question is that if our country can accept these external elements and still keep its identity intact, then why is the "Big Bad West" (note the quotation marks) seen as such a threat?

First of all, looking into olden times- the power was NOT in our hands. It was a period of monarchy. Specifically looking at Mughals I personally think they did a lot for India - all those historical monuments, the botanical gardens etc are by them. Indians accepted this change B/C mughals spent the money for serving them EG- The grand Trunk Road and all the rest houses across the roads for rest for people who use to trade(cant remember what those rest houses were called they have a special name). Now looking onto the the other side, Britishers dint serve us that well and we went oppsing them . Actually, they were interested in  indian  minerals , spices and all the stuff they couldnt get in thier country. And that generation recongnised and acted against it. It's not that we always sat quiet looking at the britisher's cruelities _ we always acted against what we thought was wrong! So now we think embracing west is wrong -- we are going to act against it too!! (right now only three of us😛)

 

It is common knowledge that prior to "western interference", social evils such as sati, child marriages, purdah system, taboo on widow remarriages, etc. existed in our society on a much larger scale than current times.

 

Ram Mohan Roy, the founder of the Brahmo Samaj society, took the aid of the British in abolishing the practice of Sati – one of the greatest social evils of our culture where women were burnt alive on their husbands' funeral pyres! That was one of the biggest steps towards women's rights and feminist movements.

 

The question is, should social evils also be accepted as a part of our culture simply due to the fear of "losing" it?  The answer is no. Blindly clinging on to ancient beliefs, when they are detrimental to society, is not the mark of a truly cultured person. Neither does this make you truly South Asian. Discarding such practices is not a loss, but a gain on our part.

Who said it is a part of Indian society? If you are saying that the no. of these social evils are decreased B/C of we adopting western policies..I say NO! It's was because of our indain leaders (nehru, ambedkar etc ) that first time we got the independence to think about ourselves on our own when we got independence. That is when they formed the big granth- constitution making educated decisions to how our country can progress> first time they thought if they will killing people like that (baliz, satiz etc) How is our country going to progress! They learned the importance of word named "women" and "life". (right for life to every children by UN;))

             The West brought about awareness and information about different things. ?? Sry, but I have to disagree with this statement. West brought awareness? Insaan ki anhen tab tak nahi khulti jab wo khud na kholna chahe...!! if India is something today then it's because of our citinezs. If you are thinking technology is gift from west i say no... this is something which is shared all over the world... If arbhata discovered zero then western dint print in thier textbooks that ok we got number system from indians.. Even the theory of atom by other scientists was already in our vedas - atom called as parmanu!

Embracing western culture means changing our lifestyles to match the west. If they wear this, we wear the same. if they eat this, we ea tthe same. In other words, you can call it copying!! How are we losing our culture by doing this ? Just for example - Most Indai women wear western clothes and take a while and ask them what is the thing these girls are wearing on thier head above tika (see below):

you know what even I dont know! That is what we call "losing" our culture when living in india, we dont our regional dress, we dont know how to speak our language properly etc. We can spend so much money buying western dresses but when time comes to deteriorating monuments, our government doesnt have funds. EG- the paint in the ajanta caves is deteriorating and to get the same quality paint that was used in earlier times, it costs a lot (Source: Punjab district School Borad Grade 10 history textbook Chapter 1😃) 

We improved upon our ideologies, yet retained our individuality. In fact, South Asia is influencing other countries, including the West! The Hare Rama Hare Krishna Foundation and Ramakrishna Mission have centres all over North America and Europe. Buddhism travelled via the Silk Route to the Far East – China, Japan, Thailand and to the South in Sri Lanka.

 

             By that account, one may say that South Asian influence is destroying Western culture and the culture in the Far East! However, this is a flawed method of perception.

 

There has been a mutual exchange of ideas and innovations between the East and the West. Both have improved alongside each other, yet have kept their own identities intact. 

 

For example, no one will mistake India for a pale imitation of USA or the UK (Canada already fulfils that requirement 😉). One may say that the economic situation is the most obvious difference. But, I'm not talking about differences in GDPs and the poverty line. I'm talking about languages, clothing, technology, industry and different ideologies that have shaped the citizens of our country. (These will be covered in detail by my team mates, MNMS and Mrs.Eishu.SRK) Looking forward to more explanation!😉

 

             It takes more than just western influence to lose a country's culture. History is a witness to that.  It takes a night to lose culture and hundred years to get it back because in the darkness we forget what we are and infact lose our own identity!

 

PS. If you thought this was the end of our arguments, don't worry…this is just the beginning.😛 (MNMS, Mrs.Eishu.SRK and T.)

(Well, wrong thought!)

            

 

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

[ii]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/culture

[iii]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaivism

[iv]http://www.indiantemplesportal.com/lord-shiva-temples.html

[v] Zaehner, R.C. Hinduism.

[quote=~Khizer~]

What makes people like you or I Indian(Or whatever nationality a person maybe)? It is their unique culture and heritage that does so. Taken into consideration no culture is static, the values and heritage of it should remain static because the values define who you are.  To progress should not mean forgetting your past and the unique values we all hold however by adopting new ways of living it interfers with society. By interupting a way of living, it is interupting their culture as well. As one person changes their routine life in society they change their values along as well.

[/quote]

Who is putting behind their values? We are all proud of our nationality,our culture, our religion, and living abroad, or making friends who are not of the same culture as you are, doesnt mean that you are letting go of your culture, instead, you learn a lot from them, and sometimes, make them awarre about what your culture is all about.

[quote=~Khizer~]

The British changed a part of the Indian culture one way or another. They made people of one culture try to adopt another one by influencing their ways. Although many people gave in, people such as Ghandi did not. What is a main reason Ghandi is famous for? One reason would be he did not let the British effect his society and lifestyle. By not letting them interfere with his lifestyle, he preserved the Indian way of living at the time and not adopt any british ways.

[/quote]

There were many more like Gandhi.

What about those people(who aren't famous) but lost their lives,refues to let the British rule over them?

[quote=~Khizer~]

What do people mean when they refer to an Indian? Do they refer to Indians who are defined by their nationality? Do they refer to Indians who are defined by their religion? Since most if not all cultures have different values and standards, the integration of several religions into society does not come nicely.

 

When other religions are accepted, usually there is not any problems between them but this has not held true. The stereotype for an Indian would be most likely associated with Hinduism. And this is so because it is the majority of the population. Hence, since people associate Indians with their specific religion, it shows that the so called integration of religions has not worked. If there was unity, it would be seen clearly

[/quote]

I disagree. When a person says "I Am an Indian" this doesn't mean that he is a hindu. India is a melting pot of different cultures, and Hindus , Muslims, Parsis, Sikhs , all communities live there. And all of the communties I mentioned have a right to produly call themselves Indians, regardless of their religion!

[quote=~Khizer~]

The exploitation of a different culture has affected the culture of one from which he came from. Many NRI's (Non-returning Indians) have adopted other cultures. They have adopted other languages and dialects. Dialects are an aspect of one culture. Dialects are part of the values of one culture. The adaptation of different dialects has changed ones original values and changed them as well

[/quote]

IF someone is living in the west, they will obviously speak like the people living there. Does this mean that they have forgotten their mother tounge? No! English is a universal language Most of the people living abroad know both English and their mother tounge, whatever it may be, Urdu , Hindi, Punjabi, Bengali...whatsoever.

Btw, NRI stands for Non Resident Indians and not non returning indians😛

[quote=~Khizer~]In an Indian culture, women are regarded with the up-most respect. They are not allowed to go out with men whom they do not know and familiarize with. Women keep a distance even from the men they know. The actions of one are a reflection of their values and by keeping their distance women are reflecting their cultural values.

[/quote]

I disagree. Indian culture isnt all about separating women from men. Dont we go to co-ed schools/colleges? Dont women have the right to mix and make friends with the people who are not the same gender as they are?

 

[quote=~Khizer~]However in other cultures such as western ones, there is no such thing as a distance. Although women are still given the up-most respect they do not have a barrier which prevents them from interacting with others they do not know. In some western cultures, people do anything that will satisfy their needs without paying regard to their values. Western culture can be defined as "doing what makes you feel good." 

[/quote]

 

There is no "barrier" in Indian culture either. ITs a free world, and people are allowed to do what they want, its all about choices.

-Eisha

Edited by Mrs.Eishu.SRK - 17 years ago

Originally posted by: Mrs.Eishu.SRK

[Quote=~Khizer~]

Every person from this world comes from a culture that holds specific values. Those values are different from values of another culture. What one person might believe as good and respectful, the other might think the exact opposite. Their perceptions are manipulated per se or controlled by their culture values. The integration of two cultures is something which is not seen because it is simply not possible.

 

Many people in the non-western world wear so called "western clothes" even though it is not part of their cultural clothing.  By adopting every little thing from the west the people of the East are gradually loosing their own culture and ways of it. For example, In India the traditional clothing would be something such as a "saari" for women and "shalwaar kameez or pajama kurta" for men. However many people from the middle and upper class do not wear them consistently as they would've had before. Their main dressing would be a t-shirt and jeans. As people steadily progress to more modern and western techniques and ways; Western ways have influenced the lives of so many in India that even television serials about "the modern Indian life" portray the characters wearing western clothing and behaving in the same ways. They show people who have even forgotten their own culture and heritage and adopted western ways.

[/quote]

The way humans dressed about a century earlier has drastically changed when compared to what they dress like now. Some react to this change in a positive manner, the others don't, and blame the west for this change, which, I feel is rather unfair. Most of us, both in the east and the west, have switched to wearing jeans, but this doesn't mean that we are losing our culture to the west; in fact, it is a universally accepted truth that a pair jeans are the most practical piece of clothing, no matter where you are living. And this says who? you? RITE? Actually this has been BLINDLY accepted!! There are so many countries inthis world wch with a unique culture and all of sudden you are saying that jeans have become dominant over thier clothing styles?

Traditional clothes are still worn by the not only immigrants in the west, both on religious festivals and otherwise. Why not everytime? Why, we indians are embarassed to wear our traditional clothes in general public. and on religious events we wera this to SHOW people that we still have our own identity how funny!! Dikhane mein orr hone mein bahut farak hota hai!! Orr waise bhi religious events or parties pe pehenkar koi india par ehsaan nahi kar dete wo log. actually, ye Indian dressing ek drama ban ke reh gaya hai!! Ok if u r going to gurudwara pp say to thier daughters to wear suits b/c u r going to temple you know and youu gota SHOW how religious u r..ye dhong bhagwan ke samne nahi chalta..sry to say this but yeah!!

At times even the people in the west are overwhelmed with eastern culture such that some of their fashion trends are "inspired" from the east. And in any case, it's the 21^st century, and we can (and should) wear the right things at the right time. For e.g.; it isn't a smart thing to play basketball dressed in traditional clothes, the same way as it isn't to walk into a religious gathering in sports clothes!

That is a different thing. If you are wearing jeans an dother western stuff just to show how sexy you are then that's a different idea and that's where western culture comes in..

 

These days, women are at par with men, in whatever they do. Women are now ruling fields, which were considered Male dominated a decade or two ago. This proves that women deserve to be educated just as much as men do. People are slowly but steadily becoming literate, and child marriages and suttee are not being practiced anymore. People in rural areas send their both their children to school, regardless of their gender. Women are allowed to vote, don't u think this change is a logical, sensible and much needed one?

this change was made by our politicians looking at the need oif women involvement in various fields and realising the inportance of women> We HAVENT copied west here sry!!

 

Media has a huge role to play in all this too. Bollywood movies are the most watched around the world, popular both in the west and the east. Nowadays, producers are tackling social issues such as live in relations ,polygamy, marital rape in their movies. This helps spread awareness , about sensitive issues like AIDs, the dangers of live in relationships, etc etc.  IT would be wrong to say that cinema has changed over the years, if it has , it has for the better. Skimpily clad women were not uncommon then either. Neither were seductive "item numbers" Who could forget Helen in "Mehbooba, Mehbooba"

 

Skimpy clothing dates back to the time of the Ajanta Murtis. Historically South Asians wore skimpy clothing due to climate. With fashion styles changing over the years, "Skimpy clothing" so to say, is coming back in fashion.

Those were for a certain purpose - Not for everyday life! That also to attract people and sell thier movies b/c films like pakeezah wont be bought anyone in India these days. they prefer something like that Nhea dhupia film (cant remember the name)

In conclusion, fashion and the media have always undergone changes as is evident from history. Culture is never stagnant; it keeps progressing. However, we, as South Asians have continued to retain our individuality - be it even in the sequined embroidery of a shirt or the use of Devnagri Style Font on T-Shirts.

Another point i want to mention is that yes embroidery is still part of indian culture but to sry to sat that a normal person cant buy it because of high rates. Everyone will prefer to buy so called western clothes which you ll probably get a much lower rate whether it is good quality or not nobody cares just has to be somethign western! DUH! People liek to live wid style - they want to wear what actresses in movies wear because you look very hot in that etc etc ..yeah that's where media plays a role in actually moving us away from our culture!

PS:We (Me, Tanaz di, and Maryam di ) admire your patience if you have not fallen asleep as yet reading our first few posts. Unforetunately, we dont plan to shut up anywhere in the near future, so please bear with us. After the debate is over, you can officially term us insane.Come on, we know u want to😛

-Eisha

Mine - Black

Originally posted by: heart girl

Black = mine

Originally posted by: heart girl

Blue agin😆

Originally posted by: T.

Mine - Black

Red

Originally posted by: T.

Black = mine

Blue is mine!

Originally posted by: Mrs.Eishu.SRK

[quote=~Khizer~]

What makes people like you or I Indian(Or whatever nationality a person maybe)? It is their unique culture and heritage that does so. Taken into consideration no culture is static, the values and heritage of it should remain static because the values define who you are.  To progress should not mean forgetting your past and the unique values we all hold however by adopting new ways of living it interfers with society. By interupting a way of living, it is interupting their culture as well. As one person changes their routine life in society they change their values along as well.

[/quote]

Who is putting behind their values? We are all proud of our nationality,our culture, our religion, and living abroad, or making friends who are not of the same culture as you are, doesnt mean that you are letting go of your culture, instead, you learn a lot from them, and sometimes, make them awarre about what your culture is all about.

Who is proud of thier culture you? Who else? Which survey shows taht every Indian is proud of thier culture? Do they even know their culture? Are they aware of what constitutes thier culture? Ask this question in public and you will know!!

[quote=~Khizer~]

The British changed a part of the Indian culture one way or another. They made people of one culture try to adopt another one by influencing their ways. Although many people gave in, people such as Ghandi did not. What is a main reason Ghandi is famous for? One reason would be he did not let the British effect his society and lifestyle. By not letting them interfere with his lifestyle, he preserved the Indian way of living at the time and not adopt any british ways.

[/quote]

There were many more like Gandhi.

What about those people(who aren't famous) but lost their lives,refues to let the British rule over them?

off topic?🤔

[quote=~Khizer~]

What do people mean when they refer to an Indian? Do they refer to Indians who are defined by their nationality? Do they refer to Indians who are defined by their religion? Since most if not all cultures have different values and standards, the integration of several religions into society does not come nicely.

 

When other religions are accepted, usually there is not any problems between them but this has not held true. The stereotype for an Indian would be most likely associated with Hinduism. And this is so because it is the majority of the population. Hence, since people associate Indians with their specific religion, it shows that the so called integration of religions has not worked. If there was unity, it would be seen clearly

[/quote]

I disagree. When a person says "I Am an Indian" this doesn't mean that he is a hindu. India is a melting pot of different cultures, and Hindus , Muslims, Parsis, Sikhs , all communities live there. And all of the communties I mentioned have a right to produly call themselves Indians, regardless of their religion!

I agree with Khizer that the integration has not worked proof being this-

- you are seen as hindu, muslim or sikh in todays society as well... T mentioned abt mumbaikars..yes i say indians/mubaikars died BUT again when they found who was responsible for blasts- then again there will be hindu, muslim, sikh..They will forget that humans are killign humans but what they will remember is that a hindu killed a muslim or a sikh killed a hindu..going back into history--same story with indira gandhiz murder - a sikh killed a hindu..when guru nanak dev ji died muslims wanted to bury them and hindus wanted to do sanskaar.

[quote=~Khizer~]

The exploitation of a different culture has affected the culture of one from which he came from. Many NRI's (Non-returning Indians) have adopted other cultures. They have adopted other languages and dialects. Dialects are an aspect of one culture. Dialects are part of the values of one culture. The adaptation of different dialects has changed ones original values and changed them as well

[/quote]

IF someone is living in the west, they will obviously speak like the people living there. Does this mean that they have forgotten their mother tounge? No! English is a universal language Most of the people living abroad know both English and their mother tounge, whatever it may be, Urdu , Hindi, Punjabi, Bengali...whatsoever.

Btw, NRI stands for Non Resident Indians and not non returning indians😛

Yes, they have forgotten thier languages. Actually, I should say they have forgotten thier culture! .Their punjabi/hindi is not good at all..they just dono how to communicate in thier mother tongue..Actually, there are so many places where they can taught these languages- for eg punjabi schools which are free i guess but parents dont care why? they just dont! Actually, today no indian cares about their culture..nobody takes time to sit and think where actualli they are going. you call urself punjabi but are you really? Do you knw what is a punjabi? they b liek ummm!! haha!

 

[quote=~Khizer~]However in other cultures such as western ones, there is no such thing as a distance. Although women are still given the up-most respect they do not have a barrier which prevents them from interacting with others they do not know. In some western cultures, people do anything that will satisfy their needs without paying regard to their values. Western culture can be defined as "doing what makes you feel good." 

[/quote]

 

There is no "barrier" in Indian culture either. ITs a free world, and people are allowed to do what they want, its all about choices.

And those choice you cant make yourself only! Parents come in bw- thta is a part of our well known indian society!!

-Eisha

Also Diwali and ID etc are famous festivals and obviously everyone celebrate sthem but there are some regional events as well that are a part of our culture. For example- teeyan da mela is limited to punjab (i guess) and things like ur daughter comes home during the month of sawan and stays there for the whole month and at th end of the month her husband comes to take her. Moreover, earlier people used to go to temple on thier birthdays but now we just sit home and cut cake just too lazy to go to temple and pray!!

These minor but important things are depleting from our culture! Why? because we are trying our best to be western- to act like them and to look like them and to do everything single thing to be them! (forgetting what we are)

 

Maroon is mine

Originally posted by: heart girl

Edited by MNMS - 17 years ago