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zara29 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: lunza

ok , this is what rowling has to say about neville's connection to the prophecy :

FAQ Poll #3
Date Started / Ended:
December 10th, 2004 / May 15th, 2005

Runner-up questions:
- How many chapters will Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince have? (Subject to editorial changes, of course) - 7%
- Will Ron ever manage to become more than just good friends with a girl? - 25%

Winning question & answer (with 68% of the vote):
What is the significance of Neville being the other boy to whom the prophecy might have referred?

Finally, I am answering the poll question! I am sorry it has taken so long, but let me start by saying how glad I am that this was the question that received the most votes, because this was the one that I most wanted to answer. Some of you might not like what I am going to say - but I'll address that issue at the end of my response!

To recap: Neville was born on the 30th of July, the day before Harry, so he too was born 'as the seventh month dies'. His parents, who were both famous Aurors, had 'thrice defied' Voldemort, just as Lily and James had. Voldemort was therefore presented with the choice of two baby boys to whom the prophecy might apply. However, he did not entirely realise what the implications of attacking them might be, because he had not heard the entire prophecy. As Dumbledore says:

'He [the eavesdropper] only heard the beginning, the part foretelling the birth of a boy in July to parents who had thrice defied Voldemort. Consequently, he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to risk transferring power to you.'

In effect, the prophecy gave Voldemort the choice of two candidates for his possible nemesis. In choosing which boy to murder, he was also (without realising it) choosing which boy to anoint as the Chosen One - to give him tools no other wizard possessed - the scar and the ability it conferred, a magical window into Voldemort's mind.

So what would have happened if Voldemort had decided that the pure-blood, not the half-blood, was the bigger threat? What would have happened if he had attacked Neville instead? Harry wonders this during the course of 'Half-Blood Prince' and concludes, rightly, that the answer hinges on whether or not one of Neville's parents would have been able, or prepared, to die for their son in the way that Lily died for Harry. If they hadn't, Neville would have been killed outright. Had Frank or Alice thrown themselves in front of Neville, however, the killing curse would have rebounded just as it did in Harry's case, and Neville would have been the one who survived with the lightning scar. What would this have meant? Would a Neville bearing the lightning scar have been as successful at evading Voldemort as Harry has been? Would Neville have had the qualities that have enabled Harry to remain strong and sane throughout all of his many ordeals? Although Dumbledore does not say as much, he does not believe so: he believes Voldemort did indeed choose the boy most likely to be able to topple him, for Harry's survival has not depended wholly or even mainly upon his scar.

So where does this leave Neville, the boy who was so nearly King? Well, it does not give him either hidden powers or a mysterious destiny. He remains a 'normal' wizarding boy, albeit one with a past, in its way, as tragic as Harry's. As you saw in 'Order of the Phoenix,' however, Neville is not without his own latent strengths. It remains to be seen how he will feel if he ever finds out how close he came to being the Chosen One.

Some of you, who have been convinced that the prophecy marked Neville, in some mystical fashion, for a fate intertwined with Harry's, may find this answer rather dull. Yet I was making what I felt was a significant point about Harry and Voldemort, and about prophecies themselves, in showing Neville as the also-ran. If neither boy was 'pre-ordained' before Voldemort's attack to become his possible vanquisher, then the prophecy (like the one the witches make to Macbeth, if anyone has read the play of the same name) becomes the catalyst for a situation that would never have occurred if it had not been made. Harry is propelled into a terrifying position he might never have sought, while Neville remains the tantalising 'might-have-been'. Destiny is a name often given in retrospect to choices that had dramatic consequences.

Of course, none of this should be taken to mean that Neville does not have a significant part to play in the last two novels, or the fight against Voldemort. As for the prophecy itself, it remains ambiguous, not only to readers, but to my characters. Prophecies (think of Nostradamus!) are usually open to many different interpretations. That is both their strength and their weakness.

thanx 4 this info Lunza...😊

quiet a good piece of info 4 me😳

alia thumbnail
Anniversary 19 Thumbnail Group Promotion 5 Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 18 years ago
just went back a few pages and saw tht i cant participate πŸ˜ƒ (am not good at debating) but judging is going to be difficult as u all r soooo good...
keep it up 😊 and well i dont think this is going to end anytime soon as i dont see ne1 of u backing away πŸ˜‰
lunza thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: albusdumbledore


see we have already seen dat Harry is no match for Voldy. even in da graveyard we see dat Voldy is merely playin around wid Harry till he decides to kill him... Harry merely survives becoz of Priori Incantatem then. So if you say that Harry would have done sumthin to harm voldy that sounds a very indistinct possibility to me (or in dat case even to the most eternal optimist) Y i say this is becoz in da numerous times Harry has met Voldy it is always voldy who has harmed (or tried to) Harry never da other way round (except in da atrium of da MoM, where also he was able to possess Harry long enough to scare Dumbledore)

 

Well ya , Harry doesnt stand a chance against voldy if he

 fights by the conventional and orthodox kinda means

lyk proper duelling , bcuz harry will be dead faster than he can say expelliarmus ...

and one more thing is that harry has always

 survived his fights wid voldy mainly due to sheer luck

 and his sharp reflexes .... and also stalling for time by talking wid voldy and the death eaters...

hazelgirl thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: lunza

Well ya , Harry doesnt stand a chance against voldy if he

 fights by the conventional and orthodox kinda means

lyk proper duelling , bcuz harry will be dead faster than he can say expelliarmus ...

and one more thing is that harry has always

 survived his fights wid voldy mainly due to sheer luck

 and his sharp reflexes .... and also stalling for time by talking wid voldy and the death eaters...

quite agree with u but it was not entirely his sheer luck...no doubt that he has sharp reflexes but the time when he met Voldy..it was coz of the golden web from which his parents and others came out.....so...its not his luck entirely...
alia thumbnail
Anniversary 19 Thumbnail Group Promotion 5 Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: radz_2cool

Can iI join here Alia?? 😳

surely u can saumya!!
welcome to TEC😊

zara29 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: alia

just went back a few pages and saw tht i cant participate πŸ˜ƒ (am not good at debating) but judging is going to be difficult as u all r soooo good...
keep it up 😊 and well i dont think this is going to end anytime soon as i dont see ne1 of u backing away πŸ˜‰

aww....Alia...Im not a good debator either but I did try 2 participate..u can do too😳😳

yup!every1 is just gr88 at debating ...lyk Tejas bro,Achal,Lunza,T.πŸ‘πŸ‘

zara29 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: hazelgirl

quite agree with u but it was not entirely his sheer luck...no doubt that he has sharp reflexes but the time when he met Voldy..it was coz of the golden web from which his parents and others came out.....so...its not his luck entirely...

I agree with Alia...that it was not ENTIRELY his sheer lucky😳

He does hav the same powers as voldy's though harry didnt know abt it till book 5th...😳

achal thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: albusdumbledore

that is not entirely necessary..... the AV curse by itself has considerable magical power behind... I would like to take you all to Book 4 (GoF) where the fake Moody (Barty Couch Jr.) tells his class about the AV. He says that even if da whole class went ahead n pointed their wands towards him n said he wouldn't get as much as nosebleed.  My point here is dat maybe as an AV curse rips the soul from da body, maybe wen da curse backfired from Harry n hit Voldy maybe becoz of Voldy's hocruxes it also ripped sum of his powers n transferred to the nearest magical entity i.e. Harry. in da process leaving him (harry) wid a scar. maybe this is why harry is able to feel voldy's feelings.


Okay, let's say what you're saying is partly true.. And, when u cast AV, your soul does get ripped, but maybe instead of what you're saying, maybe when the spell backfired, instead of transferring only his powers, what if it transfered his soul, which was already ripped, to Harry and that caused the scar? And alongside that, it might have transfered some of the powers as well...

achal thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: lunza

I think you are talking about the time when Mr . Weasley was attacked ,Yup, I was talking about that time.. thaz when he sensed the connection between him and harry ( remember? , snape tells that to harry during the first occlumency class)he just realised the connection but there was no mention of voldy realising that it is the "scar" that connects them ... But, how are they supposed to know whether Voldy realized that it was the scar connecting them or now.. Or maybe, if what u said is the case, then maybe Voldy thinks Harry is the horcrux, instead of just his scar..

but i DONT think voldy put two and two together at that time and concluded that harry is a horcrux at time itself .... otherwise he wouldnt have tried to kill harry at the Dept. of mysteries .... This goes back to where I think why Voldy wouldn't want to take his own soul out of Harry or why he wouldn't want to kill Harry. Harry is great threat to him, and so I don't think he would really care about his own soul as much, since he could create more horcruxes..   i think he mite have realised that harry is a horcrux when he tried to possess him ... the possession cant be compared to ginny's bcuz ginny said she couldnt remember a few things like , there were a few blank spaces in her memory but she dint say anything about the possession being painful , and harry found it very painful when Voldy tried to possess him , it mite be bcuz voldy tried to possess a body which already had his soul , so that wud be a total of three souls in one body , two pieces of voldy's and one harry's ... maybe there was some kind of repulsion during that possession bcuz he was trying to possess his own soul ! Yeah, possibly! If what Tejas bhaiyya and u said are added together about why Voldy didn't try to take his soul out of Harry, maybe because he only realized this after he tried to possess him.... A definite possibility..

on the other hand( i know i keep contradicting myself but i cant help it , this whole thing is so darn complicated ... i am tring to see it from different angles .... ) , it doesnt seem so impossible that voldy tried to kill one of his own horcruxes knowing that it is one bcuz ... well , he has other horcruxes right ? and he can make more ... Yup, exactly my point!

zara29 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by: albusdumbledore

in dat case Voldy must have even lesser control over Nagini becoz dere is no mention of Nagini even having dat (a scar) so 1 scar less control.... no scar even more less control... rite .....

[quote=achal]No! I'm trying to say that scar is the horcrux, not Harry himself. So, having just a scar as a horcrux has a little influence than having Harry, himself, as a horcrux.. As for Nagini, there is not a scar on her that's the horcrux, she, herself is the horcrux, so that is different than having part of you that's a horcrux... It has less influence....

yup! achal..this is wat we two hav been saying again & again that its just Harry's scar that is the horcrux...his scar possessz voldy's soul...& harry has has his own soul too..therefre it has less influence upon him....also thats y...He has just few qualities of voldy...😳

Edited by zara29 - 18 years ago