Originally posted by: .Vrish.
Okay, that map seems to describe this better!
This explanation is convincing - if anyone adhering to Shastras had to accept any non-hostile invitations, that may have bound Duryodhan. But if Karna was defeated by Bhima, he'd have been taunted by others not only for losing to Arjun, but also for losing to Bhima. But even then, if Yudhisthir was doing it on behalf of Indraprastha AND Hastinapur, then Dhritarashtra would have been the acknowledged emperor, not him.
I think Karna only shined as an invincible warrior in Van parva (and he could confront Arjun only in Virat Parva then) in his own conquest and then in Karna Parva as hero until then he was primarily boasted by Duryodhan only looking at his childhood performance of Archery in competition with Arjun. Also even Duryodhan was only fearful of Bheem until Indraprastha nirmaan and not Arjun. That is clearly mentioned in KMG in his own words. And the dual need not be through bow and arrow only although Karna was good at everything. Even people have raised question over Arjun as a warrior in Kurukshetra but I would say Karna was relatively fresh in Karna Parva than Arjun. Arjun was both physically and mentally tired (Guilt of Bhishma & Drona and grief of Abhimanyu as well as the former two) and emotionally weak again and again as shown in Adhyay 1 of Geeta. And he didn't have to prove himself. Karna had strong determination to prove himself and show his worth for Duryodhan despite knowing about his relation with Arjun at that time. All the adversities would make your commitment and self motivation to give your best greater & bigger.
However, the preclusion of killing seems unlikely. In the Ramayan, if you recall, when Rama thought of performing a Rajasuya yagna, Bharata appealed to him against it, on the grounds that it would turn friends into enemies, as they'd be duty bound to wage war against him, and would inevitably die, and the earth would be rid of kshatriyas, which would be undesirable. Which was why Rama accepted Lakshman's alternative of doing the Ashwamedha yagna.
So, in the above case, almost all rulers would have been duty-bound to fight the Pandavas, including people who later became their allies, such as Virata. So in such a case, Karna would have had an opportunity for a full blown war, and what's more, either he, if not Duryodhan, would have had the opportunity to gather every kingdom on earth and wage war on the Pandavas.
That's very strange because then the entire war had to be at the time of Rajsuya yagna and Pandavas would have been the initiator (which Krishna was very keen to avoid) and upon major role and permission of Krishna only. And Krishna himself didn't wage war against them. And even in Ashwamegh yagna, someone who catches the horse had to accept the challenge of fight. And that too the enemy will be decided at the free will of the horse wherever it goes. I would like to ask a question then. Shatrughna had independent kingdom. Would it mean that he also had to accept the challenge of war against his elder brother to follow Kshatriya's duty? I don't think that's the essence. The rule is only applicable to those who don't like or mentally accept the supremacy of the person performing sacrifice. Why would one carry out battle against own brother or nephew or grandson? Yes for Duryodhan I would see not as an opportunity but as a duty (as he didn't want Yudhishir's supremacy mentally so allowing that to happen would mean that he was a coward and didn't deserve to be Kshatriya) but Bhishma-Krishna-Shalya-Drupad were all happy with Yudhishir's campaign so they wouldn't mind and wouldn't considering it to be the insult of their own native when the other Indraprasth kingdom was connected with them through the bondage or love. But I guess Duryodhan didn't oppose or couldn't oppose because at that time, Bhishma and Dhritarashtra were at good terms with Pandavas (they had divided the nation on happy terms) and they had to show the happiness with this campaign of Yudhishir as it had also the name of Kuruvansh and Pandu associated with its glory and Bhishma wouldn't connect just purely to the kingdom. Krishna had Kunti and Subhadra connected, Drupad had Draupadi and Shalya had his nephews. Can you imagine Yudhishthir accepting a challenge against Dhritarashtra had Dhritarashtra performed the yagya? Can you imagine Sugreev or Vibhishan to do that against Ram (of course their examples may not be suitable as they were not Kshatriyas but you know what I mean - say Keikai desh king)? And norms would change over time. Dwapar kshatriya may not be that strict in following their duties of accepting challenge compared to Treta kshatriyas. Shaastras are still same for all eras but Kaliyug Brahmins don't follow all the norms of Shaastras as seriously as the Brahmins of previous eras. So they had the duty to accept the challenge as per ancient laws of morality is one thing and they had rationality or practicality to do so as per the socially set customs or norms of the time is another. Hunting, Gambling and Drinking were legal in Dwapar but Kali has learnt the lesson from Dwapar.
One could theoretically argue that Krishna was capable of fighting for the Pandavas and turning the tables for them, but given how Krishna had Bhima fight Jarasandha in a duel, rather than go to a military war w/ him, it's doubtful that that would have been a reason preventing those hostile to the Pandavas from going to war w/ them.
Yes. That theory also would have been my argument. Regarding Bheem killing Jarasandh, I think I have read this somewhere in this or MM forum only that among 5-6 men of equal power, anyone killing the other would have killed all the others. So had Krishna or Balram killed Jarasandh, as per that boon or prophecy or whatever, they also would have had to kill Bheem so Jarasandh was challenged and killed by Bheem only and that too before the start of the conquest. And at that time Krishna didn't become Samdhi of Duryodhan and was not in any manner relative of Duryodhan. So he would have finished everything with his Sudarshan in no time.
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