Originally posted by: RJ1234
@Vrish and @visrom: As you guys
know that I had opened a seperate thread regarding the Mahabharata post war and
here's the following link:
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3455023
As I have mentioned earlier that I think it would be better if we only have
only thread. After a long consideration, I strongly felt that any topics that
is related to the Mahabharata, we should discuss in this thread and
making one of the biggest thread regarding the Mahabharata.
@Vrish: You had really made some interesting comments regarding my post on
"Mahabarata Post-War". So, I would continue from where it was left
off.
Actually, where was
Yuyutsu that night? Krishna advised the
Pandavas not to stay in their camp, and they and Satyaki stayed away.
Everyone else slept in the Pandava camp and were massacred, but where was
Yuyutsu? RS-SK showed Yudhisthir as asking him to escort the Kaurava
womenfolk back to Hastinapur, but is that mentioned anywhere in any of the
versions?
@Vrish: Yuyutsu
fought from the Pandavas side. The reason that I think that was why he wasn't massacred
may be he also left with the pandavas and Satyaki, as per the instruction by
the lord Krishna. Although, we can't really
tell that how did he survive, but by going by the various puranas, all we can
say that he was the only son
of Dhitarastha, who survived the Mahabharata war
No, he was not w/ the Pandavas that night. That would beg the question - why was he w/ the Pandavas, and not the others? Why not Draupadis sons, Dhrishtadyumna, Shikhandi and so on?
In RS-SK, they showed Yudhisthir asking him to escort all the Kaurava womenfolk back to Hastinapur. Even that doesn't make sense, b'cos in Stri Parva, it's all about the Kaurava widows lamenting the deaths of their husbands at the Kurukshetra battlefield itself. But what might have happened might have been Yudhisthir releasing Yuyutsu from his service, since he thought the war was over, and sending him to protect the Kaurava womenfolk.
A different thing that strikes me - since Krishna knew what Ashwatthama was up to, why didn't he keep away not just the Pandavas and Satyaki, but also Draupadi's sons? Contrary to BRC, Ashwatthama knew that he had killed not Pandu's sons, but Draupadi's. So why didn't Krishna bother to save them, and just leave Dhrishtadyumna, Shikhandi and a few other Panchala warriors there?
Another question is that who are
successor from each dynasty?
-Parikshit: A grandson of
Arjuna and Subhadra, and a son of Abhimanyu and Uttara. He was made the king of
Hastinapura
-Yuyutsu: A son of
Dhitarastha with a Vaishya woman named Sauvali. He was the only son of Dhitarastha,
who survie the Mahabharata war. It's believed that he shited to the Pandavas side
just before the war. After that Yuyutsu was appointed as a guardian to the king
Parikshita. Now, here's a different version of the story, somewhere I read was
that Vajra was appointed as a king of Indraprastha.
I have seen another
account that Yuyutsu was made the mayor of Hastinapur after Yudhisthir himself
became king. But Parikshit was not entrusted to him - he was entrusted to
Subhadra.
@Vrish: What I
really think is that two things might have had happened: 1) Yuyutsu became the
king of Indraprastha, as well as he was also giving guidance to the king
Parikhita at Hasitanapura. 2) Indraprastha and Hasthinapura merged and Yuyutsu
became a guardian to Parikhshita.
I doubt that Yuyutsu would have had anything to do directly w/ Indraprastha. One account that I read stated that Yuyutsu became the mayor of Hastinapur - something that may have happened when Yudhisthir became king. Yeah, Yuyutsu never got his own kingdom, probably b'cos he was like Vidura - not completely w/ royal blood. As for Hastinapur and Indraprastha merging, that happened automatically after the end of the war, since the Pandavas not only got back Indraprastha, but Dhritarashtra abdicated and the Pandavas got Hastinapur as well.
About the guidance/protection thing, Yudhisthir, in Mahaprasthanika Parva, entrusts Parikshit AND Vajra to Subhadra, not to Kripacharya nor Yuyutsu. That brings me to my observation about Indraprastha, which I note below.
-Vajra: A great grandson of the
Lord Krishna and Rukmini, a grandson of Pradhymna and Rukmavati, and a son of
Aniruddha and Usha. After the destruction of the Yadavas due to the curse from
Gadhari and from the sages, Lord Krishna and Balarama left this earth, and went
to their adobe, Vaikuntha. Arjuna came to Dwarka and took the remaining Yadavas
and the Yadavas' wives to Hastinapura. After that Dwarka got submerged into the
sea. On the way, Arjuna was attacked by the robbers. Arjuna fought with them,
but noone of his great divine weapons worked at that time, and the robbers were
successful to rob the gold, other valuable items and some of the Yadavas' women
(mostly of the Vrishni and the Andhaka dynasty). Arjuna, then established the
son of Kritavarman in the city of Marttikavat
with the remnant of the women of the Bhoja King, as well as, Arjuna installed
the son of Satyaki, Asanga, the king of the territory near the Saraswati river,
and handed over to his care many of the old men and women of Dwarka. Then,
Arjuna appointed Vajra, a king of Mathura.
(The capital of the Surasena kingdom was Mathura).
Now, here's another version of the story is that Vajra was appointed a king of
Indraprastha. Note: I wonder which one is true, Vajra was appointed as a
king of Indraprastha, or a king of Mathura
at Indraprastha, or Yuyutsu was appointed as a ruler of Indraprastha, or he was
made a guardian of the king Pariksht
When the Pandavas
retired, both Parikshit & Vajra were entrusted to Subhadra's care by
Yudhisthir (I can cite the reference in the other Mahabharata thread).
Also, I've wondered about Indraprastha myself, b'cos in RC Majumdar, I've
read that the descendents of Parikshit moved their capital from Hastinapur to
Indraprastha. So what probably happened was that Vajra was coronated in
Hastinapur, and then moved on to Mathura,
while Parikshit got both Hastinapur and Indraprastha.
@Vrish: I had a
doubt in my mind before, but now, I can say that Vajra became the king of Mathura. Also, in the
various puranas, it's mentioned that Subhadra was a guardian and taking care of
Vajra until he wasn't able to fully control
everything.
I actually raised this question as well in the DBSK Doubts & Discussions thread. After his humiliating defeat at the hands of the dacoits, Arjun took the survivors to Indraprastha, where he crowned Vajra. However, Krishna's widows all either self-immolated, or retired to the himalayas, or drowned themselves in the Saraswati river. Nothing is stated about whether Indraprastha remained w/ Vajra or not.
I think what happened was that the Pandavas took leave from Subhadra at Indraprastha, not Hastinapur, which would be how she would have been left w/ the care of both Parikshit & Vajra. Vajra, despite being crowned in Indraprastha, probably returned to Mathura w/ his kinsmen, while Parikshit probably remained in Indraprastha, leaving Yuyutsu as the mayor of Hastinapur. Reason I say that is that in Dr RC Majumdar's the Vedic Age, it mentions some descendant of Janamejaya moving the Pandava capital back to Hastinapur, or vice versa. In other words, Indraprastha remained w/ the Pandavas, and not the Vrishnis.
Thanks for giving me
Satyaki's son's name. We discussed this in the DBSK forum a bit - that
the Yadavas were actually a coalition of Vrishnis, Andhakas, Satwatas and
Bhojas, and during Krishna's lifetime, were held together due to the influence of
Krishna. But the undercurrent of
differences b/w these sub tribes were always there, and erupted in that
fratricide that destroyed at least 2 generations of them. So after
bringing them out of Dwarka, Arjun probably decided it best to partition them and
give them all their different kingdoms. Kritavarma's son - probably
Krishna's son-in-law Bali - got Martikavat and
the Bhojas/Andhakas stayed w/ him, Asanga got his kingdom (what was the name of
that city/province?) along w/ the Satwatas, while Vajra got left w/ the
Vrishnis.
@Vrish: Even I am
not sure about the city and province, where Asanga ruled as the king, but it's
near Saraswati river.
Where was the Saraswati river? All I know was that it merged w/ the Ganga and Yamuna at Prayag. Also, after Amba self immolated so that she'd take birth again to kill Bheeshma, she became a river by the same name. Any idea where that was/is?
-Vrishketu: A son of Karna. His
eight brothers died in the battle of the Mahabharata. He was the only one
survived. Later, he became very attached to the Pandavas esp. to Arjuna. He
assisted Arjuna and Bheema in the Ashwamedha Yagna. It's believed that
Babrubavana killed Vrisketu during the Ashwamedga Yagna, when the horse reached
Manipura. He was later brought back into life by the Lord Krishna. We don't
know a lot about him post Ashwamedha Yagna, but I guess, it makes more sense that
he became a king of the Anga
Kingdom, since his father
(Karna) was a king of the Anga Desh.
He is mentioned only
in the Jaimineya Mahabharata - the Vaisapayana or Sukhdev accounts have no
mention of him. Also, Karna had 4 sons who died in the war - and another
who was killed @ Draupadi's swayamvar. All mentioned in the Pandava
parivar thread.
In
the Pandava Parivar thread that Vaarali referenced, I asked this there as well
- was Vrishaketu actually a combatant, or a non-combatant who was too young to
fight, but who was there w/ his father, brothers & uncles? For had he
been a combatant, he too would have had to accompany Ashwathama, Kripa &
Kritavarma in the Sauptika massacre - did he? Had he done that, I can't
imagine the Pandavas reconciling w/ him in that situation.
@Vrish: I also did a lot of
research on it. All I can say that he did participate in the war. No doubt
about that Vishaketu was the youngest son of Karna. Why would he accompanied
Ashwathama, when right after the death of Karna, everyone came to know that Karna
was the elder son of Kunti. Remember, the death of Pandavas' son, Dhristadhyuma
and Shikandi happened at the night when the Duryodhana was left at the battle
field to die, and when Ashwathama came to see him, and he asked Ashwathama to
kill the pandavas, and he accidentally killed the Pandavas' sons instead. So, what
I really think is that after the fight between Bheema and Duryodhana, Vrishaketu
went to his kingdom and accompanied his mother, and that's why he was the only
one who survived from Karna's clan.
No, this is not correct - NOBODY knew that Karna was Kunti's son, until they were doing all the funerals. As to Vrishaketu's participation in the war, does Jaimenaya mention anything that Vrishaketu did in the war - such as protect Jayadrath (like Vrishasena did) or fight the Pandavas anywhere else? On day 18, Nakul killed the remaining of Karna's sons - Chitrasena, Susena and Satyasena after a tough combat w/ them, so had Vrishaketu been a combatant, Nakula would have killed him there as well.
Also, remember that on that day, the Kauravas were so heavily outnumbered for the first time in that war that Sanjaya himself stopped narrating the story to Dhritarashtra and went into battle himself, and was captured by Satyaki. Vyasa got Satyaki to release him. In other words, the Kauravas were desperate to find warriors who could match the Pandavas. Shalya was surrounded by Yudhisthir and the Pandavas, Duryodhan, Ashwatthama, Kripa & Kritavarma fled from the field following Shalya's death, Arjun battled and killed Susharma, Bhima killed the rest of Duryodhan's brothers, Sahadev killed Uluka and Shakuni and the remaining Kaurava armies were completely massacred. Vrishaketu would have been amongst the dead had he not been a non-combatant.
Also, Kunti only revealed that she was Karna's birth giver when it was clear that there was nobody to perform his shradh (which actually seems strange if Vrishaketu was around - the right to perform Karna's shradh would be his b4 it was Yudhisthir's). Or maybe she wanted to end the hatred the Pandavas had for Karna. Whatever the case, Kunti revealed that privately to the Pandavas in order to persuade them to do his shradh. Once it was done, the Pandavas may have reconciled to Vrishaketu.
Some other characters:
-Babruvahana: A son of
Arjuna and Chitrangada. He fought with his father during the Ashwamedha Yagna.
Due to the curse from the mata Ganga,
Babruvahana slain his father in the war, but later, Ulupi, Arjuna's another
wife, who was a naag kanya, with the help from the gem, she brought Arjuna back
into the life. After that Babruvahana continued to rule the kingdom of Manipura.
He went on to attend
the yagna w/ Uloopi & Chitrangada, and after the war, he left Uloopi and
Chitrangada w/ Arjun. When the Pandavas decided to retire, Chitrangada
returned to him, Uloopi returned to Nagalok while the other wives of the
Pandavas - Subhadra, Karenamati and others as well as Uttara stayed on w/
Parikshit.
-Meghavarna: A son of Ghatothkach
and Maurvi, and a younger brother of Barbareek. He assisted Vrishketu
during the Ashwamedha Yagna.
What happened to Subhadra and
Uttara afer the Paandavas and Draupadi went for their final journey?
Nothing has been said about
them too much, but we can imagine that both Subhadra and Uttara stayed at
Hasinapura to take care of Parikshit.
The Mahabharata
clearly has it that Yudhisthir left both Parikshit & Vajra in the care of
Subhadra
What happened to the Lord
Krishna's wives?
-After the death of the Lord
Krishna, Rukmini, Jambavati and few became sati, while Satyabhama and many
other queens of the Lord Krishna entered the forest to practice austerities.
Note: It's not cleared about remaining 16100 wives of the Lord Krishna.
Those 16,100 wives
were said to have drowned themselves in the river Saraswati. Satyabhama,
Lakshmanaa and one more wife of Krishna retired to a place called Kalpa, in the
Himalayas. Note that in SB, all the Yadava womenfolk committed Sati in
Dwarka itself, and Arjun & Bhima went to heaven directly from there - the
Pandavas were not together in that one.
@Vrish: Thanks for
adding some great insight into it.
Who is Revati?
Revati was a wife of the Lord
Balarama. Balarama and Revati had two sons: Nisatha and Ulmuka. Both her sons
Nisatha and Ulmuka were killed in the Yadu fratricidal
war. Revati became sati after the death of the Lord Balarama, by
ascending onto his funeral pyre.
Actually, the
Mahabharat and SB have conflicting accounts about the end of the Yadavas.
Everything you wrote before this was from the Mahabharata, whereas
Balarama's end, you are recounting from SB. In SB, the carnage randomly
started, whereas in MB, it started as a result of an argument b/w Satyaki &
Kritavarma. In SB, both Balarama's & Krishna's bodies were found, and
cremated, and ALL their wives committed sati on their pyre. In MB, Arjun
never found either Balarama's nor Krishna's bodies, since the devas had taken
them to Vaikuntha; therefore, Arjun assumed that they were dead and performed
their obsequies. Unlike in SB, Krishna's womenfolk, including his
wives, accompanied Arjun to Indraprastha, and on the way, they were attacked by
dacoits and a lot of the Yadava maidens were abducted and taken away, and the
entire contingent was robbed, and Arjun failed to defeat those bandits.
Then after they arrived in Indraprastha, Vajra was crowned king, and
after that, some of Krishna's wives, like Rukmini & Jambavati committed
sati, some like Satyabhama went into exile and the 16,100 drowned themselves in
the Saraswati river. In SB, Arjun & Bhima followed Krishna to
Vaikuntha, whereas in MB, the Pandavas all went and died one by one, and
Yudhisthir had his final test in Yamalok.
@Vrish: Yes you are
right. But, as far I know in both Mahabharata and SB, it has written that the
destruction started by the argument between Kritvarma and Satyaki. Also, the
Lord Krishna's main 8 wives became sati or went to the forest, and remaining
16100 drowned into the saraswati river only after Arjuna appointed Vajra the
king of Mathura.
Actually, in SB, way the fratricide was described didn't make any sense. There, they say that Pradyumna fought fiercely against Samba, Akrura against Kuntibhoja, Aniruddha against Satyaki, Subhadra against Sa?gramajit, Sumitra against Suratha, and the two Gadas against each other. Also, Nisa?ha, Ulmuka, Sahasrajit, Satajit and Bhanu, confronted and killed one another. Kuntibhoj - are they talking about Kunti's father? He was killed on the by Drona the night before the latter's death in the war itself - he was an active participant on the Pandava side.
The way the Mahabharata described how the fight was triggered made sense. Satyaki, who was quite drunk, decided to re-open really historical wounds, calling Kritavarma a disgrace on kshatriyas for being the one kshatriya out of the 3 who massacred the Pandavas. Kritavarma retorted at the way Satyaki had slaughtered Bhurishrava, who had already been disabled by Arjun and unable to fight. Satyaki brought up the way Kritavarma was amongst the plotters who killed Satyabhama's father Satrajit, which made Satyabhama cry and angered Krishna as well. Suddenly, Satyaki enraged drew his sword and beheaded Kritavarma, and then started to attack the Andhakas around him. They attacked him w/ crockery, and to save him, Pradhyumna also intervened, but both Pradyumna & Satyaki were killed.
Krishna was angered by their deaths and uprooted the grass, where Samba's baby mace had been grounded and scattered, and the grass automatically became a mace. He then started attacking Pradhyumna's enemies, and others got the hint and everybody was plucking maces and killing each other. Finally, when they were all done, Krishna made plans to get the survivors evacuated from Dwarka.
One more thing. In Mausala parva, Arjun never discovered Krishna's or Balarama's body, and so just assumed them dead and did their shradh. In SB, Daruka got to see Krishna die, whereas in MB, Krishna sent him to Hastinapur b4 going to join Balarama
Jaya Shree Krishna!!!! Hare
Krisha!!! Hare Rama!!!!
Regards,
RJ
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