Dirty politics Malaysia -Anwar sodomy case - Page 2

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return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: chal_phek_mat

So you are fine with quid-pro-quo hereπŸ˜‰



Unless it is under duress, it is still consensual. If someone willingly engages in physical relations for perks, they cannot call 'rape'.

Of course sleeping with the boss is unethical, but it cannot be held illegal. Fire the boss, fire the employee fine - but it is not a crime. And who said politicians are ethical?πŸ˜†
Posted: 14 years ago
Is sodomy the problem, or non-consensual sex that is?
chal_phek_mat thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: return_to_hades



Unless it is under duress, it is still consensual. If someone willingly engages in physical relations for perks, they cannot call 'rape'.

Of course sleeping with the boss is unethical, but it cannot be held illegal. Fire the boss, fire the employee fine - but it is not a crime. And who said politicians are ethical?πŸ˜†

 
So the victim himself is saying it is under duress, then why is that a question? Seems the yardstick would have been different if "he" was a "she"
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: chal_phek_mat

 
So the victim himself is saying it is under duress, then why is that a question? Seems the yardstick would have been different if "he" was a "she"



I must have missed the part where the victim claimed duress. If it was duress, it is rape, and it is a crime.

The question is why is it a 'sodomy' highlighted instead of 'rape'? What if it was fellatio instead of sodomy, what category would that fall in.

Nope no different yardstick for men or women. In fact men have been raped by women too and we have had several arguments here that such a thing is not possible.
Edited by return_to_hades - 14 years ago
chal_phek_mat thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: return_to_hades



I must have missed the part where the victim claimed duress. If it was duress, it is rape, and it is a crime.

The question is why is it a 'sodomy' highlighted instead of 'rape'? What if it was fellatio instead of sodomy, what category would that fall in.

Nope no different yardstick for men or women. In fact men have been raped by women too and we have had several arguments here that such a thing is not possible.

 
Saiful: Anwar asked for sex

Sodomy II: Trials begin with 'indecent proposal'

KUALA LUMPUR: Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan, the key witness in the second Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim sodomy trial, startled the High Court here when he said the Opposition Leader used a four-letter slang word to ask him to have sex with him in 2008.

The former personal aide of Anwar told a hushed courtroom that he had gone to meet the PKR leader at a unit of the Desa Damansara Condominium at 2.45pm on June 26, 2008, when the latter asked him in English: "Can I f*** you today?"

Those present in the packed courtroom were stunned with the profanity used although there was some sniggering.

Mohd Saiful, 24, who said he was "angry and scared" when he heard Anwar's question, added: "I rejected his request. I told him that I did not want to do it."

Anwar then asked him in an angry tone: "What?"

"I repeated my words. I was not willing to do it. He was angry. At that time, I was afraid," he said on the first day of the high-profile trial.

After he said no to Anwar, he was told to go into the master bedroom.

"I went to the room first. Shortly later, Anwar entered and closed the curtains," said Mohd Saiful, who was questioned by Solicitor-General (II) Datuk Mohd Yusof Zainal Abiden,

He said he stood still while Anwar went about switching off the lights. However, there was still light from the bathroom and from outside filtering in between the curtains.

Anwar, Mohd Saiful said, asked him to "clean up" in the bathroom.

"I removed my clothes and washed up. I took a towel from the washroom and donned it," he said.

When he returned to the room, Anwar was standing at the edge of the bed, clad in a towel.

"He directed me to go to him and then hugged me while we were standing," he said.

At this point, lead counsel Karpal Singh asked the court to allow the proceedings to be held in camera (closed proceedings).

High Court judge Justice Mohamad Zabidin Mohd Diah, who then adjourned the trial, ordered the proceedings at 9.30am today to be held in camera.

All through this testimony, Anwar's wife Datuk Seri Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail kept looking at her daughters – Nurul Hana and Nurul Nuha – in court and rubbed their shoulders.

Anwar was busy taking down notes.

Earlier, Mohd Saiful said he met Anwar at his office in Section 16, Petaling Jaya, and was told by the PKR leader to meet him at the condominium later that day to discuss his work schedule.

He said he had been to the condominium many times and had been told by Anwar that the condominium unit belonged to one Hasanuddin.

When he reached the condominium, he was queried by a security guard at the guardhouse over his visit but he just replied "Mokhtar".

Asked why he used "Mokhtar" as a password to enter the condominium, he said he was told to do so by a staff member of the condo management earlier.

He said he passed by a door to go to a block where there was a specific intercom to allow guests access to the units.

"I was allowed up when I said the word 'Mokhtar'," Saiful said.

He met Anwar, passed a document to him and they were discussing the work schedule when Anwar asked him to have sex.

Earlier yesterday, both the prosecution and defence teams met Court of Appeal president Justice Alauddin Mohd Sheriff in chambers to get an early date for the review application by Anwar over the Federal Court ruling denying him access to key documents.

Speaking to reporters in the court lobby later, Karpal said Justice Alauddin told them that he would get a date for the hearing of the review application by the end of this week.

Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades

Is sodomy the problem, or non-consensual sex that is?

Islam is quite strictly practised in some state in Malaysia, and  sodomy seems like one of the worst crimes(in Malaysia)
Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: return_to_hades



I must have missed the part where the victim claimed duress. If it was duress, it is rape, and it is a crime.

The question is why is it a 'sodomy' highlighted instead of 'rape'? What if it was fellatio instead of sodomy, what category would that fall in.

Nope no different yardstick for men or women. In fact men have been raped by women too and we have had several arguments here that such a thing is not possible.

yes it would tantamount to a rape.
 
I think the argument here is more on whether Anwar the defendent, is being framed for something he did not do.
It has been stated by the defendent that the victim was offered monetary and other rewards by the Prime Minister. there are several unanswered questions.
But most likely the defendent will lose the case and he faces an uphill battle in a country that has a rather dubious judicial system.
Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: debayon

What's sodomoning?πŸ˜•

Basically the plaintiff  a guy is claiming he has been raped by the Politician.
The word is sodomy.
chal_phek_mat thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago

Originally posted by: Summer3

Basically the plaintiff  a guy is claiming he has been raped by the Politician.
The word is sodomy.

 
For Heavens's sake now please atleast check what the terms mean
 
Sodomy (pronounced /'s?d?mi/) is a term used today predominantly in law (derived from traditional Christian usage) to describe the act of anal sex, oral sex, or zoophilia
 
Rape
In criminal law, rape is an assault by a person involving sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent.
 
 
Rape is always non-consenual, and it can be any form of sexual relation
 
Sodomy can be consensual, but the law of the country finds it to be unnatural means of sex
 
 
debayon thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
A guy raped by a guy? How do you do that? I'm too shocked to say anything. What's going on with the world nowadays?