Dharma - Page 2

Originally posted by: iDea-yeS-viruS

even as thouhast been stupefied, in discriminating between what should be done and what should not. What should be done and what should not cannot be ascertained easily. Everything can be ascertained bythe aid of the scriptures. Thou, however, art not acquainted with the scriptures. Since (believing thyself) conversant with morality, thou art desirous of observing morality (in this way, it seems) thou art actuated by ignorance. Thou believest thyself to be conversant with virtue, but thou dost not know, O Partha, that the slaughter of living creatures is a sin. Abstention from injury to animals is, I think,the highest virtue. One may even speak an untruth, but one should never kill

Krishna to Arjun


actually it hadn't been mentioned in Bhagavat Gita which believed as Dharma that taught by Vishnu to Suryadeva. it took place in Karna Parva. this is just main quote. Krishna told two stories to explain Dharma. he meant Dharma is the thing which is the best for lives. so one moral decides his Dharma.


Lakshman was Ram's younger brother. so Ram is father figure to Lakshman and Lak knows Ram is the man of virtues. so he had rights to obey Ram foremost.He had Rights to follow him. but let Urmila to assist him was their choice. in fact Ram had no second thought to drop exile. first he went to convince his mother then as a husband he told his responsibility and Danger at forests. Sita was so adamant about assist him. Then Ram himself mentioned that though He was capable enough to protect her , He just wanted to be sure about her opinion on Exile.so Urmila was the one to decide Lakshman Dharma .


Ram had trust on Dhasarath Rajadharma.Dhasarath advised Ram about King responsibilities.Ram Dhasarath both knew Bharath also such a Man of Virtue. That's why Ram didn't utter anything against Dhasarath decision.in fact ,Lakshman told he would Kill Bharath if he were Power hunger. But R reminded Bharath good character and approved him if Bharath became power hunger person. I'm not sure, When Ram wanted to appoint Lakshman as Yuvaraja, He refused that Bharath was more eligible than him.

I Said numerous times before. He never abandoned her, He just told Her (I mean he announced it thru Lak) that he couldn't live with her together anymore. Sita understood his decision and accepted it.

Caesar's wife must be above suspicion

I can't understand why Ram husband duties only questioned. in fact Pompeia was Caesar second wife. Caesar married thrice.Ram just belong to Sita,Sita,Sita. Then why his Rajadharma not ununderstood.

Originally posted by: sumedha93

Let's not compare Ram and Caesar, caesar is not considered 'maryadapurushottam'. Ram's duty as husband are questioned because he is considered maryadapurushottam. He was a great son, brother, father and King however he left Sita and that raises the question, a man who full filled all his duties some how couldn't full fill all his duties as a husband.

In my culture couples don't get married on same thithi on which Siya Ram got married, the reason being their marriage is not considered to be successful.

Here is my personal view on it which kind of is on the same lines as yours -http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4566078

@Bold: Actually this is most important problem with understanding Ram Character. Ram wasn't man of Relationship Dharmas. [B] Ram is the Man of Swadharma To better understand Ram , one must see Krishna. Krishna completely knew who he was but Ram was just an ordinary man. in Bhagavat Gita, Vibuthi yoga completely praises his supreme powers. but Ram. just obeyed Every elders and Rishis.(in RCM ,Ram was called as supreme at Many times by many but in Ramayana, Just two or three occasions) but he did What he felt as Dharma. He never denied or degraded Other Rishis and Dhasarath and other great great people's morals. but He just made them to understand what he felt about Dharma. (There was a narration(not complete truth) which praised Bharath as more Virtue than Ram. I'll mention later) For ex, when Kaikeyi told Dhasarath order to go exile. He didn't mention about his mother. He was ready to accept it. Then He went to his mother. Kou was so shocked. She wanted to go with Ram but Ram mentioned Dhasarath only Had rights to decide. So He wanted her to take care on Dhasarath. Here, Ram decision wasn't only based on Son Dharma but Praja Dharma. In fact ,I have seen a dialogue which explained his status (it wasn't quoted by Ram exactly but His conversation with Kousalya tried to convey that meaning). "People must obey a Dharmic King orders as a son obeying his father. While My father himself a Dharmic King, So I couldn't disobey my father's order whatever it took" Here he just felt he had responsibilities to keep Raghukul Dharma. It's not over yet. When Ram was ready to departure, Dhasarath wanted to send Gold, elephants, soldiers and extra, extra. Kaikeyi objected. Dhasarath reminded her that Her boon was Ram's exile and Bharath coronation. She didn't mention anywhere about Ram outfits and what He should carry and what He shouldn't. Then Kaikeyi mentioned Ram's ancestor Asamanja sent with an Axe only So Ram must take Axe only with Rishi's dress. Then Sumantra(I'm not sure) cleared Kaikeyi that Asamanja was punished so , so She can't apply same rule for Ram because Ram exile was her boon not punishment. Then Ram himself told everyone that " After giving away a first-class elephant, who will work out his mind on a rope with which it is tied? What use is there for him through attachment to the rope after abandaning the excellent elephant?I forsaken the opportunity to become King for entire kingdom. So what pleasure I'm gonna get by royal lifestyle?"(one of my fav quote) Here He knew exact point of boon. He didn't use loop hole of Kaikeyi because Dhasarath father himself ordering him to take royal things while Kaikeyi isn't his biological mother. He prepared him. And Sita as Kaikeyi wanted Then He requested Dhasarath to take care on Kausalya specially because her son gonna go exile. (See.Shantha was folklore, never mentioned in Ramayana) Here he tried to make Dhasarath to favor Kausalya more than his other two mothers while sumitra also suffered Lakshman also assisted with himSoBut if look closely, He made sense. Kaikeyi had Bharath. though Sumitra lost Lak, She had Shatrughna who would gonna be Yuvaraja if Bharath became King (Bharath and shayrughna were so close as Ram Lakshman). So Sumitra grief somewhere nullified. But Kausalya would be devastated everyday because original heir of kingdom, Her son suffering in forests. So His request based on son responsibility not only to Kausalya but others too. Still he didn't force Dhasarath. Because He knew Dhasarath not only his father and King too so he respected His superiority. Then He went Thandakarunya where sages request him to kill Asuras.Sita was suggested him to reconsider his act. Actually that was nice conversation. After telling her opnions,Ram explained his responsibilities and Tell her about his Dharma "I may forfeit my life,forgo Lakshman, or even forsake you but not My promise" That's what really happened in Ramayana. To keep his promise, he left Sita and abandoned Lakshman (see left and abandoned). There are who many things to write down, still I just try to explain based on above. Here, Ram always obsessed with What was his Dharma. He didn't care about much what Shastras telling about Sons Dharma, Kings Dharma, father's Dharma. In fact , He himself mentioned that he was helpless to refusing many elders orders just because he ready to fulfill promise. In Uttra Khand, when Ram heard Gossips, He ordered Lakshman to leave Sita at Hermitage without telling his opinion. Till then he respected his brother's opinions but this time he didn't. It may look alike out of character but as a King , he knew his brothers decisions would favor Sita as they didn't want to look pros and con's. Because he knew that Lak Bharath actions when he announced for exile (Lak blamed Dhasarath and Bharath blamed Kaikeyi). Even though he was deeply hurt, he never out of his responsibility. Ram is the Man of conscience. He knows to give priority to which thing. When He was at a stage to take decision between Siya and Praja. He just realized that He can't back a From King and it would give wrong moral to people. If He keep Sita anymore It would bring doubt in His Jurisdiction. So He announced Sita that They couldn't live physically together anymore. Actually Wife is the 'SahaDharmini' of husband. I mean wife attains one half Dharma committed by Husband. So Sita realized that it's Her responsibility to keep Ram to Do His duties. Thus Mata Sita attained Half Dharma committed by Ram as King. After Her Bhumipravesh,Ram made an Golden Statue of her and treated as Maharani. So There is nothing like Ram gave no importanceto pati duties. Sita Ram both were persons of Swadharma, honesty, commitment, Truthful. I'm not against the people who querying Ram but what hurts me is most of them were folklore. I didn't like this show.I am sure CVS can't carry out Ramayana characters. Any ways I'm Just finishing my post with Bruce Lee quote. "Its like a finger pointing away to the moon. Dont concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory" Don't just end with soaps and debates. Just try to read Ramayana . whether you accept His point or not at least you're giving chance to hear His defense. P.s: I'm so keen to marry on Vivaha Panchami. Let's see

Dharma does not have a definition that is consistently valid for every occasion. Dharma's definition changes according to situation. When one has to choose between two Dharmas, then it behooves them to do some soul searching to find out which Dharma is bigger/higher/more important of the two. For e.g, a healer's immutable Dharma is to heal those in pain. They do not belong to a particular race or nation. Then they should not be bogged down by patriotism, caste-ism etc. Ram Dharma was to obey the promise his father made to Kaikeyi. Laxman was Ram's shadow. His Dharma was tied to Ram's fate. Sita was Ram's ardhangini. So her stree Dharma was tied to being Ram's companion for the better or worse. Likewise, Urmila was Laxman's ardhangini. She could have chosen to insist like Sita that she would follow Laxman. But since Laxman's Dharma was to serve and protect Ram, he would be remiss in his duty to do so had Urmila come along (he would have to protect her instead, as a husband's Dharma). So it was Urmila's Dharma, as a wife, to ensure that Laxman did not stray from his Dharma. Hence she made the sacrifice. They all did. Bharat lived like a monk in a cottage for 14 years apart from Mandavi. Urmila, Mandavi, Ripudaman and Srutkirti were left to give solace to the grieving mothers - a job easier said than done, especially when a calamity of such a great magnitude had befallen on Raghukul.

Originally posted by: iDea-yeS-viruS

@Bold: Actually this is most important problem with understanding Ram Character. Ram wasn't man of Relationship Dharmas. [B] Ram is the Man of Swadharma To better understand Ram , one must see Krishna. Krishna completely knew who he was but Ram was just an ordinary man. in Bhagavat Gita, Vibuthi yoga completely praises his supreme powers. but Ram. just obeyed Every elders and Rishis.(in RCM ,Ram was called as supreme at Many times by many but in Ramayana, Just two or three occasions) but he did What he felt as Dharma. He never denied or degraded Other Rishis and Dhasarath and other great great people's morals. but He just made them to understand what he felt about Dharma. (There was a narration(not complete truth) which praised Bharath as more Virtue than Ram. I'll mention later) For ex, when Kaikeyi told Dhasarath order to go exile. He didn't mention about his mother. He was ready to accept it. Then He went to his mother. Kou was so shocked. She wanted to go with Ram but Ram mentioned Dhasarath only Had rights to decide. So He wanted her to take care on Dhasarath. Here, Ram decision wasn't only based on Son Dharma but Praja Dharma. In fact ,I have seen a dialogue which explained his status (it wasn't quoted by Ram exactly but His conversation with Kousalya tried to convey that meaning). "People must obey a Dharmic King orders as a son obeying his father. While My father himself a Dharmic King, So I couldn't disobey my father's order whatever it took" Here he just felt he had responsibilities to keep Raghukul Dharma. It's not over yet. When Ram was ready to departure, Dhasarath wanted to send Gold, elephants, soldiers and extra, extra. Kaikeyi objected. Dhasarath reminded her that Her boon was Ram's exile and Bharath coronation. She didn't mention anywhere about Ram outfits and what He should carry and what He shouldn't. Then Kaikeyi mentioned Ram's ancestor Asamanja sent with an Axe only So Ram must take Axe only with Rishi's dress. Then Sumantra(I'm not sure) cleared Kaikeyi that Asamanja was punished so , so She can't apply same rule for Ram because Ram exile was her boon not punishment. Then Ram himself told everyone that " After giving away a first-class elephant, who will work out his mind on a rope with which it is tied? What use is there for him through attachment to the rope after abandaning the excellent elephant?I forsaken the opportunity to become King for entire kingdom. So what pleasure I'm gonna get by royal lifestyle?"(one of my fav quote) Here He knew exact point of boon. He didn't use loop hole of Kaikeyi because Dhasarath father himself ordering him to take royal things while Kaikeyi isn't his biological mother. He prepared him. And Sita as Kaikeyi wanted Then He requested Dhasarath to take care on Kausalya specially because her son gonna go exile. (See.Shantha was folklore, never mentioned in Ramayana) Here he tried to make Dhasarath to favor Kausalya more than his other two mothers while sumitra also suffered Lakshman also assisted with himSoBut if look closely, He made sense. Kaikeyi had Bharath. though Sumitra lost Lak, She had Shatrughna who would gonna be Yuvaraja if Bharath became King (Bharath and shayrughna were so close as Ram Lakshman). So Sumitra grief somewhere nullified. But Kausalya would be devastated everyday because original heir of kingdom, Her son suffering in forests. So His request based on son responsibility not only to Kausalya but others too. Still he didn't force Dhasarath. Because He knew Dhasarath not only his father and King too so he respected His superiority. Then He went Thandakarunya where sages request him to kill Asuras.Sita was suggested him to reconsider his act. Actually that was nice conversation. After telling her opnions,Ram explained his responsibilities and Tell her about his Dharma "I may forfeit my life,forgo Lakshman, or even forsake you but not My promise" That's what really happened in Ramayana. To keep his promise, he left Sita and abandoned Lakshman (see left and abandoned). There are who many things to write down, still I just try to explain based on above. Here, Ram always obsessed with What was his Dharma. He didn't care about much what Shastras telling about Sons Dharma, Kings Dharma, father's Dharma. In fact , He himself mentioned that he was helpless to refusing many elders orders just because he ready to fulfill promise. In Uttra Khand, when Ram heard Gossips, He ordered Lakshman to leave Sita at Hermitage without telling his opinion. Till then he respected his brother's opinions but this time he didn't. It may look alike out of character but as a King , he knew his brothers decisions would favor Sita as they didn't want to look pros and con's. Because he knew that Lak Bharath actions when he announced for exile (Lak blamed Dhasarath and Bharath blamed Kaikeyi). Even though he was deeply hurt, he never out of his responsibility. Ram is the Man of conscience. He knows to give priority to which thing. When He was at a stage to take decision between Siya and Praja. He just realized that He can't back a From King and it would give wrong moral to people. If He keep Sita anymore It would bring doubt in His Jurisdiction. So He announced Sita that They couldn't live physically together anymore. Actually Wife is the 'SahaDharmini' of husband. I mean wife attains one half Dharma committed by Husband. So Sita realized that it's Her responsibility to keep Ram to Do His duties. Thus Mata Sita attained Half Dharma committed by Ram as King. After Her Bhumipravesh,Ram made an Golden Statue of her and treated as Maharani. So There is nothing like Ram gave no importanceto pati duties. Sita Ram both were persons of Swadharma, honesty, commitment, Truthful. I'm not against the people who querying Ram but what hurts me is most of them were folklore. I didn't like this show.I am sure CVS can't carry out Ramayana characters. Any ways I'm Just finishing my post with Bruce Lee quote. "Its like a finger pointing away to the moon. Dont concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory" Don't just end with soaps and debates. Just try to read Ramayana . whether you accept His point or not at least you're giving chance to hear His defense. P.s: I'm so keen to marry on Vivaha Panchami. Let's see