What does genre and versatility mean ? - Page 2

about genre first of i don't know why mentor call gen-re as jon-er 😆

Just for you all these are the singers Raja has attempted to sing

Sonu Nigam
Sukhwinder Singh
Kailash Kher
Kishore Kumar
Manna Dey
NFAK
RD Burman
AR Rehman
Hari Haran
Udit Narayan
RFAK
Adnan Sami

Anything I missed out? I think Shailedra Singh (Hoga Tumse Pyara Kaun)

Originally posted by: deepboy

Raja has a unique voice texture which doesn't suit certain songs. It has nothing to do with versatility or genre. He has a good classical base which helps him to sing songs over a wide range. Raja will never sound good in Kishore da songs. Now having said that i would also mention that even Sonu Nigam will not be impressive if he sings Kishore da songs. That doesn't make him less versatile. Raja will be good in most songs that has a scope of falseto tones, some classical elements, lot of voice modulations etc. example Sukhwinder and Kailash kher songs which has a scope of hiding the faults of your voice by yelling to some extent which again is a quality not found among all singers. Abhijeet is in the industry for quite long time and i consider him to be a quite a good singer but he will never be able to do that yelling type singing which is an art masteredly performed by Sukhwinder or Kailash kher. So please get me wrong when i say 'yelling'. You need to have a wide range and strong voice for that.

Now coming back to Kishore da songs..Raja will never sound good in those because he doesn't have the kind of voice texture required to sing one flat note for a long time. It is very important to sing just a 'Sa' without letting any air passing when you sing it. I am not sure if you can understand this but someone who has done some riyaaz should be able to understand what i am trying to say. You have to put your tongue stuck to your lower teeth (bottom of your teeth) and need to do your riyaaz. Some singers have the ability to come up with strong and flat renditions which is very important for simple and melodious tunes.

Lets take the example of the song...

'Aapke anuradh pe main yeh geet sunata hoon'

It has some classical elements to it and also requires the singer to sing flat for long without bring much voice modulation. Raja will fail in that. Forget Raja.. even the industry stalwarts like Sukhwinder or Kailash will fail to do so.

So its not the question of versatility. Its your voice texture that decides certain songs will suit your voice or not. Raja has sung songs of different genre and has proved that he is versatile. But its his voice texture that prevents him to appeal when he sings certain songs. To me he is a versatile singer but definitely has some limitations.

Thanks for your views and analysis. But I think with Riyaz Raja will be able to render any type of song because of his classical base.

Originally posted by: DoReMiFaSo

I will request all the members who have good knowledge of music to let me know the genre of the following songs which were perfectly sung by Raja:

1)Allah ke Bande- Sufi

2)Dum Dara Dum Dara mast mast- Classical (not sung tooo brilliantly imo)

3)Tere bin nahi jeena- Semi-sufi/Semi-classical

4)Naina Thag lenge- Classical (Dard wala gana)

5)Chak de fatte- Bhangra (folk)

6)Hoga tumse pyara kaun- Slow Romantic (Sung well but not suited to his voice)

7)Tu Hi re- Slow romantic number (did justice)

8)Mahiyaan- High Pitched Classical (Dard wala gana)

9)Ankhiyan noo chain naa Aawe- Dont remember the song

10)Kesariya Balam- Dont remember

11)Aake sidhi lagi dil pe- Comedy (not sung that well)

12)Maa Tujhe Salam- High pitched Semi Classical (One of his best performance)

13)Piya Hazi Ali- Sufi

14)Nadiya paar Sajan da thaana- Cant remember song

15)Zindagi ek Pyaas hai- High pitched Classical

16)Ramta Jogi- Folk

17)Yeh Jawaani O Deewani- Bollywood

18)Kiss me Baby- Fast/ Dance (not that great)

19)Hum the who thi- Comedy (Not sung that well)

20)Teri Deewani- Sufi/Classical

21)Ghanan Ghanan- Folk
22)Rut Aa gayi re- Folk

23)Chinnama Chikamma- Classical

24)O re Chori Maine pyaar- Romantic (ok performance)

Most of these fall under Classical/Sufi/Folk. He cannot sing slow romantic numbers, fast dance numbers or typical bollywood type songs or item numbers. Amanat can sing all types.

Originally posted by: deepboy

So its not the question of versatility. Its your voice texture that decides certain songs will suit your voice or not. Raja has sung songs of different genre and has proved that he is versatile. But its his voice texture that prevents him to appeal when he sings certain songs. To me he is a versatile singer but definitely has some limitations.

Yes that's true.....I agree with this......

N, I think Raja's voice has a uniqueness....a khanak.....and that he has good voice, we are not debating anymore......he also has good sense of sur and taal.......hence when he sings....what suits his voice....he excels!!!

And

Originally posted by: DoReMiFaSo

Thanks for your views and analysis. But I think with Riyaz Raja will be able to render any type of song because of his classical base.

Deepboy, I agree with you completely. His voice is only suited for certain type of songs. Such is Raja's voice texture and even with Riyaz it is not possible to master those other songs because his voice will constantly be compared to that of kishoreda. Yes if he gets similar type of songs now that are originally sung by Raja they might do well because no one will have imagined it in kishoreda's voice.

But why should any singer emulate any one.....?
These contestants are all new voices....let them keep the uniqueness of their voices....
Such is the beauty of voices...that no two should be same....
We are not looking for clones...are we...??
We are looking for singers who have good origianl voices...have a sense of sur & taal...and could put a spin to existing songs to sing them well.
Result: When the audience hear it...they should enjoy the song in totality and not go on a comparison trip......

There are a few other important facts that people haven't discussed. Or have simply chose to ignore.

If you want to want to succeed as a playback singer, what you do on stage is immaterial. "Thank you that you said that I sound so much like sonu nigam" is not going to get you anywhere. Music directors are not looking for stage-singers. They are looking for singers who can do justice to their compositions, with minimum effort. That is precisely why, Himesh, sings himself. Simply because he doesn't trust any singer with his compositions.

But getting back to the point - it is how you sing an original composition - something that you have never heared before - makes or breaks your career. This is where genuine singers are differentiated from what I would call Ipod singers.

In my book, Aneek and Emon (Of II3) falls into the latter category. He has a very good voice - but where has he shown how he would adapt a composition to his own voice?

On the other hand take Raja. He simply twists compositions out of the blue. When he sang Allh ke Bande, I am pretty sure he worked with original notes that VS handed over to him. He didn't work with an Ipod. The song was no where anyway close to what Kailash Kher sang.

Or take Vishal Bhardwaj's Naina Thag Lenge. Watch the differences between the two versions he sang - one the main routine and the second when the "once more" was demanded. He played around amazingly in the second instance.

WIth the Teri Deewani song, he added alaaps on his own - which were never in the original. With maahiya, he delightfully added his own bits - which I could never spot in either Shankar Mahadevan or Sukhwinder's version.

The point I am making here is, you must know the inner workings of a composition. You must understand the composers effort, his aim. And of course you must understand the lyricists' feel. As Raja has been a composer himself, he knows these tricks very well. And these reflect in each song he sings.

A good friend of mine quoted this:

"When a lyric and tune is given to the singer, the singer is expected to think through the song and give the right expression at the appropriate places. To be able to sing an entirely new composition which he never heard of and deliver his best requires good musical sense and classical background that Raja possesses in abundance. Also, Raja exercises great control over his breathe. Breathe control is the most essential and vital for singers. And for film music one should have a trick or two up your sleeve like changing the voice for each singer and if he could sing with a lady voice, I am convinced that Raja is a complete and natural singer"

As for genre and versatility, there's enough room for everyone. If any singer can match these criteria, he'll succeed, irrespective of what kind of songs he or she can sing.

The thing with Raja is his "twists and turns" only sound good in folk/sufi/devotional genre. His variations are not as intuitive when it comes to soft romantic numbers or dance songs.

Mojazwal, what was naina thag lenge? A devotional number? A sufi number? Or a folk number?