Hema and Judges - Page 11

Originally posted by: surma_bhopali

Haan to miyan, keh riya hoon na Hema behtar hai. Lakkad doon? ekdum khara hai.

Bhopali ji, ye "lakkad" kya hai? Kahin "lappad" to nahi? 😉

Like autmother ji, I really didn't want to comment about this especially to Ummmm ji's comments, because we all are entitled to have an opinion of our own and I know that even if I sit in front of you and present u this as an argument, you are going to find flaws with Hemu and there is no problem in that. You had mentioned before that you are a trained singer I think, so I really respect your opinion; jsut dont agree with it.

1) Hemu's voice cracking is a 'natural' phenomena, he is 17 and at that age it happens. Vinits voice cracked when he sang Tu Mile and Fiza.. Hema's voice cracked when he was singing soem exceptionally tough songs. If you tell me that Saathiya wasn't as tough as a Tu Mile or Fiza, and it was easier, I will really have to look back at my own music learning lessons! To sing a Rahman song with so much of overlaps and to do that without cracking, means something. Debojeet's voice cracking just shows that he couldn't take that pitch that high. At his age, chances are unless he works REALLY hard, he cant take that high pitch ever. In case of Hemu, he is still 17, let his voice get into path and then if it still cracks, I'll agree with you.

2) I don't think Vinit was better in sur department than Hemu. Vinit sang to his strengths ALWAYS. His biggest strenght was to sing slower songs, and look at most of his songs, they are relatively slow, and they dont have much of a speed variation in the song. Tera Jadoo chal gaya is high and stays high, it doesnt go low - high - medium - low - high.. Same with Fiza..its like High - Low - High... Yeh Dil - High High Higher!.. Look at Hemu's graph.. 'Nahin Saamne low - high (preyasi on one note) - medium - low - high (secong preyasi) - medium - low, saathiya medium - high - low - medium - low - high - medium - low.. if u r variating songs so much and if u can make the song sound good, for common ears, its on sur! Hemu's lost sur sometimes, agreed, probably more than Vinit but that by NO means makes Vinit more pakka on sur..ask Vinit to sing a Ramta Jogi or a Tanhayee or a Hay Rama and then we'll see.. Hemu is classically trained and very few classically trained singers with almost 13 years experience go 'off' sur ! My POV only

3) your comment saying that mentors having other reasons why they gave less points to Hemu , I agree with you partly. I've mentioned before that I felt they gave him less points because they expected more from him. Quite frankly, I never had anything against their marking, because barring his Mera Karma Tu (where he was bad, there he slipped off sur several times) and bachna ae haseeno.. he always got over 8..so that means he was good.. infact he got more marks than Debo, so if we keep 'mentometer' as the judge, he was defn. better than Debo.. I think the argument is the fact that even though the mentor might have giving a high mark, he never explained y..sometimes doing that gives the audience an idea..like Adesh explained why Nihira's rangeela or I love you were great.. i think these comments matter a LOT !

Ummm ji, no offence meant..u r entitled to ur opinion.. but just wanted to add some points to it..

agree with Madhavi. this is an unending discussion. But one thing is sure ummmmmm whatever you say, I dont think your analysis is based on music. YOu probably got a few set ideas from someone who knows a little music and you are set on them, about the diction, voice cracking and the same stuff.
I am too old to be fan and stuff like that. But hema's voice is unique. You just are making a point to criticise him with whatever little you can find. I could agree more if you made an intelligent musical analysis as opposed to saying the same things the mentors are saying all along with no substance. I definitely think the judges were biased with Hema just like you. I dont know what you keep harping about Tanhayee. He never slipped sur. HIs voice cracking was a natural phenomenon, but that is not the same as slipping sur, you need to know the difference, but cant say the same about 27 year old Debojit. His voice cracked because he couldnt singthe notes and it was not even that high an octave. I am not criticising Debojit He still sang pretty well. But it is not injustice since he did not sing well. You know this will go on and on and I dont want to keep harping on it.
But you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine.

For your kind information by first choice would be Nihira and Nihira only. I do like Hema's voice a lot and his singing too. Nobody is saying he is the best, but yes he is the best among SRGMP 2005 boys/men. You need to have a valid point when you make your comments,not generic, which we have been hearing from judges already.

Originally posted by: ummm

3. When Debu made a mistake, I called it a mistake. Same with Vinit. Hema is no exception either. But if I am not mistaken, in our previous discussion on Mitwa, you did not agree that Hema had lost sur in the tananana lines. If you happen to revisit the thread, you'll notice others (incl some Hema fans) agreeing that he lost sur there. We can get into a good technical discussion (esp since you have a classical background too) if we leave biases aside and see white as white and black as black. Then probably we can talk about technical superiority in general and wrt Hema, Vinit and Debu.

4. Reagrding my statement on ignoring Debu's cracked voice : In Saathiya, hema got a 10 even when he had a cracked voice, he missed lyrics and had diction trouble. But as I have said before, these mistakes were worth ignoring (in that particular song, if I may emphasize) simply because he showed the courage to attempt such a difficult song live and did justice to it for most part. If you look at the bigger picture of Debu's qawwali recital, you'll probably agree that that one cracked voice mistake was worth ignoring as compared to the justice he did to the rest of the song. But there's a big difference in these 2 situations - while Hema's mistakes were overlooked by the mentors, Debu's were not! He got a 6. Any guesses on who should cry injustice? 😊

I llistened to the Mitwa - Tananana part, Hema does not really lose sur . He sings that very quietly so it appears so. You have to listen to it aloud - preferably with headphones.

Debo's qawwali song was a brave attempt, but he was out of his league. He did well in parts, but for the most part he totally lost the rhythm of the song; and in some places, the sur. That is why he was judged harshly.

Appreciate your comments Madhavi. Please see a little input from me in your comment below.

Originally posted by: madhavir108

Like autmother ji, I really didn't want to comment about this especially to Ummmm ji's comments, because we all are entitled to have an opinion of our own and I know that even if I sit in front of you and present u this as an argument, you are going to find flaws with Hemu and there is no problem in that. You had mentioned before that you are a trained singer I think, so I really respect your opinion; jsut dont agree with it.

You are right. There are several debatable points on which we might find it next to impossible to convince each other, and coming to think of it, it probably doesn't matter either. It's like discussing who is better - Ashaji or Lataji, and no one answer that I can think of. It is the same with all the contestants - they are more or less equal, it's just that we tend to like somethings about someone more. I do respect your opinion too, and to a certain degree, I agree as well.

I am not really a trained singer - I started learning Hindustani Classical, but did not pursue it enough to call myself in the "trained" category. I am just a keen music lover like you and nothing more than that.

1) Hemu's voice cracking is a 'natural' phenomena, he is 17 and at that age it happens. Vinits voice cracked when he sang Tu Mile and Fiza.. Hema's voice cracked when he was singing soem exceptionally tough songs. If you tell me that Saathiya wasn't as tough as a Tu Mile or Fiza, and it was easier, I will really have to look back at my own music learning lessons! To sing a Rahman song with so much of overlaps and to do that without cracking, means something. Debojeet's voice cracking just shows that he couldn't take that pitch that high. At his age, chances are unless he works REALLY hard, he cant take that high pitch ever. In case of Hemu, he is still 17, let his voice get into path and then if it still cracks, I'll agree with you.

Definitely puberty plays a big role. Voice cracks even when teen boys talk, leave along sing. But it is not the only reason why voice cracks. It cracks otherwise too, even to the best of the folks when they are siging live. Sukhwinder is a good example. I have heard his voice crack on more than one occassion and Hariharanji's voice once while singing live. But in a competition, if it is forgivable for one, it should be the same for others too, irrespective of age differences.

I'm not sure what gave you the impression that I called Saathiya easy. Infact, it is one of the really difficult songs to sing live. Even Sonu appeared extremely cautious singing this song live in Pakistani tour and not to forget, the recorded version was definitely one up on the live. So you are right - you don't have to go back to singing lessons for tis reason!

2) I don't think Vinit was better in sur department than Hemu. Vinit sang to his strengths ALWAYS. His biggest strenght was to sing slower songs, and look at most of his songs, they are relatively slow, and they dont have much of a speed variation in the song. Tera Jadoo chal gaya is high and stays high, it doesnt go low - high - medium - low - high.. Same with Fiza..its like High - Low - High... Yeh Dil - High High Higher!.. Look at Hemu's graph.. 'Nahin Saamne low - high (preyasi on one note) - medium - low - high (secong preyasi) - medium - low, saathiya medium - high - low - medium - low - high - medium - low.. if u r variating songs so much and if u can make the song sound good, for common ears, its on sur! Hemu's lost sur sometimes, agreed, probably more than Vinit but that by NO means makes Vinit more pakka on sur..ask Vinit to sing a Ramta Jogi or a Tanhayee or a Hay Rama and then we'll see.. Hemu is classically trained and very few classically trained singers with almost 13 years experience go 'off' sur ! My POV only

Lets just agree to disagree here. Although I hear you and I'm with you when you say that Vinit sang only a certain style of songs.

3) your comment saying that mentors having other reasons why they gave less points to Hemu , I agree with you partly. I've mentioned before that I felt they gave him less points because they expected more from him. Quite frankly, I never had anything against their marking, because barring his Mera Karma Tu (where he was bad, there he slipped off sur several times) and bachna ae haseeno.. he always got over 8..so that means he was good.. infact he got more marks than Debo, so if we keep 'mentometer' as the judge, he was defn. better than Debo.. I think the argument is the fact that even though the mentor might have giving a high mark, he never explained y..sometimes doing that gives the audience an idea..like Adesh explained why Nihira's rangeela or I love you were great.. i think these comments matter a LOT !

The mentometers could be taken as an averaging out tool, if all mentors were rankig all performances. But Hema's were not ranked by AS and Debu's were not ranked by ID, so anyone getting 8 or 10 and someone getting 6 or 8 cannot really be compared.

Ummm ji, no offence meant..u r entitled to ur opinion.. but just wanted to add some points to it..

Appreciate that. As always, thanks for sharing your opinion. Please drop the ji. I am definitely older than you, but like to consider myself young! 😉

Originally posted by: autmother

agree with Madhavi. this is an unending discussion. But one thing is sure ummmmmm whatever you say, I dont think your analysis is based on music. YOu probably got a few set ideas from someone who knows a little music and you are set on them, about the diction, voice cracking and the same stuff.
I am too old to be fan and stuff like that. But hema's voice is unique. You just are making a point to criticise him with whatever little you can find. I could agree more if you made an intelligent musical analysis as opposed to saying the same things the mentors are saying all along with no substance. I definitely think the judges were biased with Hema just like you. I dont know what you keep harping about Tanhayee. He never slipped sur. HIs voice cracking was a natural phenomenon, but that is not the same as slipping sur, you need to know the difference, but cant say the same about 27 year old Debojit. His voice cracked because he couldnt singthe notes and it was not even that high an octave. I am not criticising Debojit He still sang pretty well. But it is not injustice since he did not sing well. You know this will go on and on and I dont want to keep harping on it.
But you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine.

For your kind information by first choice would be Nihira and Nihira only. I do like Hema's voice a lot and his singing too. Nobody is saying he is the best, but yes he is the best among SRGMP 2005 boys/men. You need to have a valid point when you make your comments,not generic, which we have been hearing from judges already.

Please feel free to disagree, but I would appreciate you not making "guesses" about my musical background, especially in careless words. Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by: realmusic

I llistened to the Mitwa - Tananana part, Hema does not really lose sur . He sings that very quietly so it appears so. You have to listen to it aloud - preferably with headphones.

Debo's qawwali song was a brave attempt, but he was out of his league. He did well in parts, but for the most part he totally lost the rhythm of the song; and in some places, the sur. That is why he was judged harshly.

If you listen to the original and take the swars from it, and take swars from Hema's version, you'll find a difference in the two.

Again Debo's league is a very subjective matter, and I haven't been able to identify what's his league and what's not.

Originally posted by: ummm

Please feel free to disagree, but I would appreciate you not making "guesses" about my musical background, especially in careless words. Thanks in advance!

Ummm,

Please don't get me wrong but if you are not really trained in music, please don't make judgments and statements about the finer variations in music as though you are trained and know a lot about music. It is great that you are a music lover and that you have a strong opinion. I respect that but to be on a fault finding mission about a singer like Hemu who knows much more about music than you do, you must have good knowledge. Otherwise it is better not to say so much about stuff about which you are not really an expert.

I know a wee bit about music and have sung in orchestras and I have to say that of all the male singers in Saregamapa, Hema and Abhijeet Ghoshal were the two singers who rarely went off sur. Vinit and Sharib will come after that. Debojit was a major culprit because of tension and also because he was uncomfortable at really high notes.

Hema's only two mistakes were Bachna Ae Haseenon (where he forgot the song and missed a beat) and the Karma song (where he forgot the lyrics and was unsettled afterwards). In sur, laye and taal he was very very good and absolutely fantastic in feelngs. He was bad in diction initially but has gradually improved. I am sure he lost a lot of marks due to diction. I felt like laughing when someone pointed out Tanhayee, Mitwa and Saathiya (which actually moved Kunal and the guests to goosebumps). These were some of his best performances. Please don't make statements like that because it does not put you or whoever said that in good light. Tanhayee was so good that Hema managed to stamp his individuality on a Sonu Nigam song. He was magnificient. Also most people will agee with me that Hema and Nihira were the best among the boys and girls. That is why depite the pitiful numer of votes from South, Hema was in the top 3. That shows his all round popularity.

Vinit was really bad in breath control and low notes. Also his landing notes were really abrupt and he used to shout at the higher notes. He needs some strong classical training as he is not a refined singer at all though he has talent. So my only advice to you is that please make some educated comments and you will see people giving you your due respect.

Originally posted by: ummm

If you listen to the original and take the swars from it, and take swars from Hema's version, you'll find a difference in the two.

Again Debo's league is a very subjective matter, and I haven't been able to identify what's his league and what's not.

The original Tananana part was sung by a female, and Iam quite familiar with it. You really have to analyze it with headphones. Hema sings it at a quieter level, at a lower pitch. Please, this is nitpicking. Perhaps you'd like to apply such standards to other singers as well.

When I said "league", I meant that Debo picked an overly complicated song and got called for being mediocre in 75% of it. He could have chosen an easier song and sung it better.

Originally posted by: realmusic

The original Tananana part was sung by a female, and Iam quite familiar with it. You really have to analyze it with headphones. Hema sings it at a quieter level, at a lower pitch. Please, this is nitpicking. Perhaps you'd like to apply such standards to other singers as well.

When I said "league", I meant that Debo picked an overly complicated song and got called for being mediocre in 75% of it. He could have chosen an easier song and sung it better.

exactly. But I think you should just ignore it, because we did this arguing with this person several times. I have heard and infact played on the instrument to see if there are variations. But I did not find any. But again, I think it is better to ignore ignorance rather than fuel it. What say you?