Rudra More Convincing than Othello - Read Vistaa's Response Too

Oyster thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#1
Just finished reading Othello over the weekend - my Shakespeare course couldn't make me do it but RR successfully forced me to read the play cover to cover :)

I honestly feel that Rudra's character is more convincing than that of Othello:

Othello was a black man sold into slavery who bought his own freedom. He is a very successful warrior-general when he finds that Desdemona is smitten by him. He has blind faith in her until Iago provokes him and convinces him to doubt her faithfulness. So what basically convinces Othello is finding the handkerchief that he gifted to his wife with Cassio. Citing this as evidence he murders his wife for her unforgivable betrayal believing that she has slept with Cassio and thus he has the handkerchief. Oh yeah there was that scene of Iago plotting wherein Cassio speaks of his mistress Bianca and Othello mistakes her for his wife Desdemona. I found this underlying reason behind Othello's questioning of Desdemona's loyalty a bit unconvincing. Critics have said that it was due to his internal insecurity given that Desdemona was extremely beautiful. However, throughout the play Desdemona gives him many reasons to believe that she looks at him very highly and no reason to think otherwise. In fact, in his defense Othello himself explains that Desdemona was drawn towards his bravery and courage. So why that sudden subversion of something you've believed in and seen for yourself?

On the other hand.. Rudra has been poisoned against beautiful women from a very tender age. His mother, the closest and most precious person in his life proved it. Moreover, Paro has hardly given him any reason to trust her. So for Rudra it's not a sudden subversion of what he thought of Paro but rather a strong confirmation of his long-held beliefs.

I hope I haven't offended any Shakespeare fans - I am one myself, trust me. However, my training in postmodern and postcolonial theory has taught me not to blindly subscribe to the prestigious perceptions of what is considered canonical works of literature --- implying that figures such as Shakespeare are only the high standards that we look up to and thus never imagine to surpass.
Edited by Oyster - 11 years ago

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mozart66 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#2
You are right!! Loved your post!!!
Your analysis that Rudra is more convincing is very apt!! Paro indeed hasn't given him any reason to believe her!
Vistaa thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#3
Res😊
Edited:
Oh, what a delicious post, Sonya Sa!😃 And hugs for reading Othello for RR...daily soap jo na karaye woh kam hai😆
Shakespeare fan I am...a huge one, but offended, not. 😊
Now to the substance of your post...could not agree more with what you have to say about Rudr. His mother's betrayal, and the subsequent bitterness of his father and its effect on a young, immature boy's psyche is established beyond any discussion. With Paro. he was swayed for a bit under the force of his attraction...but we would take any resultant mellowing in his manner to be a permanent change in his belief system, at our own peril. Any sufficiently important event/deed would be able to knock him back to square one vis--vis beautiful women...and that is exactly what has happened. This narrative of Paro, a beguiling, beautiful woman, playing dirty...pretending to be nice and loving to his father, and then turning around to harm him...plays so neatly into Rudr's world view. This is what I would have expected to have happened. No surprises there.
About Othello...can I say at the outset, that in my view, Shakespeare's genius lies not in the most ironclad of plots, or the most original of stories. In fact, many of his celebrated plays owe their genesis to other sources/oral traditions/folklore/history. You only have to look at the plot contrivances in Romeo & Juliet, A Midsummer Night's Dream, As You Like It, to see what I am talking about. Shakespeare's genius is the treatment and the language...the dialogues these characters utter that elevate them from a mere character to someone larger, and force the audience to think. Shylock's "if you tickle us do we not laugh" speech, Portia's "the quality of mercy is twice blessed", and Othello's "one that loved not wisely, but too well" are ⭐️⭐️
Othello was, as you said, a former slave. He was a Moor, and of the black race, who reached his current station in life through the dint of his bravery and caught the eye of a beautiful, white, rich maiden Desdemona. She fell in love with him deeply and irrevocably, and much against the wishes of her own father, married him. Therein lies Othello's tragedy. What he had encountered all his life was mostly harsh words and discrimination on account of his skin color and ethnicity...Desdemona's love was the anomaly. The exception, rather than the rule. Ultimately, his life-long insecurities overcame the trust he had in her, and he allowed himself to be manipulated into thinking that she was unfaithful to him.
On the face of it, the handkerchief appears to be a silly reason to believe the worst of your wife, but you have to remember that this is a play with just five acts and a handful of scenes. The scope to really expound on a story line and develop it is sort of limited😊.
As you know, all tragic heroes, Shakespearean or otherwise, have a fatal character flaw that becomes the reason of their downfall. Macbeth's ambition, Hamlet's procrastination, Othello's jealousy...it was the green-eyed monster that did Othello in. This is a Hindi soap, so hopefully, Rudr's misconceptions would not prove to be nearly as deadly.😃
Edited by Vistaa - 11 years ago
asmi279 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#4
Thank u so much fr the post! I hv been reading so many references to othello without the slightest idea of the original story..now I know the connection..thanks!
-Appy- thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: asmi279

Thank u so much fr the post! I hv been reading so many references to othello without the slightest idea of the original story..now I know the connection..thanks!

couldn't agree more...thanks for the additions vistaa...now I totally get the othello connection...thank u thread maker..
Edited by -Appy- - 11 years ago
mozart66 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: Vistaa

Res😊

Edited:
Oh, what a delicious post, Sonya Sa!😃 And hugs for reading Othello for RR...daily soap jo na karaye woh kam hai😆
Shakespeare fan I am...a huge one, but offended, not. 😊
Now to the substance of your post...could not agree more with what you have to say about Rudr. His mother's betrayal, and the subsequent bitterness of his father and its effect on a young, immature boy's psyche is established beyond any discussion. With Paro. he was swayed for a bit under the force of his attraction...but we would take any resultant mellowing in his manner to be a permanent change in his belief system, at our own peril. Any sufficiently important event/deed would be able to knock him back to square one vis--vis beautiful women...and that is exactly what has happened. This narrative of Paro, a beguiling, beautiful woman, playing dirty...pretending to be nice and loving to his father, and then turning around to harm him...plays so neatly into Rudr's world view. This is what I would have expected to have happened. No surprises there.
About Othello...can I say at the outset, that in my view, Shakespeare's genius lies not in the most ironclad of plots, or the most original of stories. In fact, many of his celebrated plays owe their genesis to other sources/oral traditions/folklore/history. You only have to look at the plot contrivances in Romeo & Juliet, A Midsummer Night's Dream, As You Like It, to see what I am talking about. Shakespeare's genius is the treatment and the language...the dialogues these characters utter that elevate them from a mere character to someone larger, and force the audience to think. Shylock's "if you tickle us do we not laugh" speech, Portia's "the quality of mercy is twice blessed", and Othello's "one that loved not wisely, but too well" are ⭐️⭐️
Othello was, as you said, a former slave. He was a Moor, and of the black race, who reached his current station in life through the dint of his bravery and caught the eye of a beautiful, white, rich maiden Desdemona. She fell in love with him deeply and irrevocably, and much against the wishes of her own father, married him. Therein lies Othello's tragedy. What he had encountered all his life was mostly harsh words and discrimination on account of his skin color and ethnicity...Desdemona's love was the anomaly. The exception, rather than the rule. Ultimately, his life-long insecurities overcame the trust he had in her, and he allowed himself to be manipulated into thinking that she was unfaithful to him.
On the face of it, the handkerchief appears to be a silly reason to believe the worst of your wife, but you have to remember that this is a play with just five acts and a handful of scenes. The scope to really expound on a story line and develop it is sort of limited😊.
As you know, all tragic heroes, Shakespearean or otherwise, have a fatal character flaw that becomes the reason of their downfall. Macbeth's ambition, Hamlet's procrastination, Othello's jealousy...it was the green-eyed monster that did Othello in. This is a Hindi soap, so hopefully, Rudr's misconceptions would not prove to be nearly as deadly.😃


Loved it!! So true!!! We still have hopes where Rudra is concerned!!! Basically Rudra hates beautiful women as has been told to him by his father. Othello though was led to believe the unfaithfulness of his wife, did that later in the life after he grew up and therefore it was his choice to believe in others that did him in! Here Rudra was just an impressionable, immature child who had been fed the poisonous fact about women by his father but still he didn't misbehave with any and evey beautiful woman he came across!! He met Paro while saving her from goons and was attracted to her for sure but did not misbehave with her due to his belief in beautiful women being traitors!!! So Rudra hopefully is way above Othello as far as I understand him!! Culture, traditions, setup also matter in a story. Shakespeare wrote his plays based on the social setting during his times!!
savvy05 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#7
Visi, what a beautiful Sunday read⭐️⭐️ . Mozart for adding the key point on how his works echoed with the social setting at that time.👍🏼

TM, Rudra seems to be "inspired" from Othello for now with a touch of mythology. I cannot compare them simply because soaps do not have a set plot and are swayed by TRP and audience reception, present one week.. gone another, parity or otherwise does not seem fitting but that's just me.

Thanks for posting such an unique topic in this forum that has got some wonderful responses right on the first page.. makes me want to go back and revisit some of the Bard's work.

Oyster thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: Vistaa

Res😊

Edited:
Oh, what a delicious post, Sonya Sa!😃 And hugs for reading Othello for RR...daily soap jo na karaye woh kam hai😆
Shakespeare fan I am...a huge one, but offended, not. 😊
Now to the substance of your post...could not agree more with what you have to say about Rudr. His mother's betrayal, and the subsequent bitterness of his father and its effect on a young, immature boy's psyche is established beyond any discussion. With Paro. he was swayed for a bit under the force of his attraction...but we would take any resultant mellowing in his manner to be a permanent change in his belief system, at our own peril. Any sufficiently important event/deed would be able to knock him back to square one vis--vis beautiful women...and that is exactly what has happened. This narrative of Paro, a beguiling, beautiful woman, playing dirty...pretending to be nice and loving to his father, and then turning around to harm him...plays so neatly into Rudr's world view. This is what I would have expected to have happened. No surprises there.
About Othello...can I say at the outset, that in my view, Shakespeare's genius lies not in the most ironclad of plots, or the most original of stories. In fact, many of his celebrated plays owe their genesis to other sources/oral traditions/folklore/history. You only have to look at the plot contrivances in Romeo & Juliet, A Midsummer Night's Dream, As You Like It, to see what I am talking about. Shakespeare's genius is the treatment and the language...the dialogues these characters utter that elevate them from a mere character to someone larger, and force the audience to think. Shylock's "if you tickle us do we not laugh" speech, Portia's "the quality of mercy is twice blessed", and Othello's "one that loved not wisely, but too well" are ⭐️⭐️
Othello was, as you said, a former slave. He was a Moor, and of the black race, who reached his current station in life through the dint of his bravery and caught the eye of a beautiful, white, rich maiden Desdemona. She fell in love with him deeply and irrevocably, and much against the wishes of her own father, married him. Therein lies Othello's tragedy. What he had encountered all his life was mostly harsh words and discrimination on account of his skin color and ethnicity...Desdemona's love was the anomaly. The exception, rather than the rule. Ultimately, his life-long insecurities overcame the trust he had in her, and he allowed himself to be manipulated into thinking that she was unfaithful to him.
On the face of it, the handkerchief appears to be a silly reason to believe the worst of your wife, but you have to remember that this is a play with just five acts and a handful of scenes. The scope to really expound on a story line and develop it is sort of limited😊.
As you know, all tragic heroes, Shakespearean or otherwise, have a fatal character flaw that becomes the reason of their downfall. Macbeth's ambition, Hamlet's procrastination, Othello's jealousy...it was the green-eyed monster that did Othello in. This is a Hindi soap, so hopefully, Rudr's misconceptions would not prove to be nearly as deadly.😃


Gosshhh Vistaa Sa.. your reply deserves to be the main post. You're one of the few users I'd love to discuss anything with since IPKKND days. Only if we had more Vistaa clones... sigh..!

Oh yes I must acknowledge your extremely valid point about Shakespeare's genius reflected in his choice of words. Like you rightly pointed out... it's not like Rome-Juliet was an original masterpiece. In fact we've had better versions of the romantic saga in other cultures. Take Laila/Majnoo, Farhad/Shirin, Heer/Raanjha, for instance.

Yep I completely agree that it was his inherent insecurities that ultimately overpowered his love for and faith in Desdemona. I suppose this is the best way to understand the unfolding of the events in the play else we'd be left with such a stark conundrum in its plot.

I'll have to accept your point about the limitation of a play with a bit of a caveat. A well-written and well-executed play can appear flawless. In fact, Shakespeare has achieved it himself. I thought Macbeth was so well-done that you cannot think of any shortfalls in the play. King Lear would be another one. But then obviously this is a matter of opinion. To someone else Othello could much more superior than these two plays. Besides, it's not like you're saying that achieving perfection in a play is impossible given its limitations. And I am not denying the limitations you are hinting at.. so I guess we are in agreement.

On the other hand, a show, especially an Indian daily soap, has a lot more serious limitations. Imagine working today to deliver an episode for tomorrow. Anything could go wrong... Just one instance of a writer's block and you can blow up the plot. Frankly speaking, I am yet to see an Indian daily soap as convincing in terms of the plot and characterization as RangRasiya. I can give you plenty of examples from Sanaya's Starplus show, but let's not invite unwanted bashing here. So I'll go for her show on StarOne. Not sure if you watched it. Basically, Gunjan (the character played by Sanaya) loses her sister in a car accident and the driver happens to be her boyfriend Samrat. He was neither drunk nor driving carelessly. The accident happens while he attempts defensive driving after seeing a truck heading from the opposite direction. Gunjan not only dumps him post accident but also hates him with a vengeance as she sees him as her sister's murderer. That was really beyond me. She was in the car with him and knows exactly what transpired. I'd understand if she distanced herself from him but on what basis could she possibly see him as a murderer?! This is perhaps a better example of plot incongruities on Indian daily soaps.

My point is that the writers of RR have done a wonderful job with their characters thus far. I hope it remains this way regardless of what direction they take in terms of the plot. Things have to be convincing and sensible.

Once again, lots of hugs for this wonderful response Vistaa Sa - It just made it so much easier for me to spend this RangRasiyaless night!

Edited by Oyster - 11 years ago
Jaz1990 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#9
Vista made me see things differently!
Exprimere thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#10
Here I was, minding my own business. And you brought up Othello! 😆

Othello and racism opens a treasury of criticism and opinions. You are correct to the extent that the Moor was insecure. A target of discrimination, and being an "outsider" so to speak, did not earn him a lot of confidence. Othello, like Rudra, is primarily driven by emotions and rage. He is impulsive. However, the main reason behind Desdemona's death was the green eyed monster, coupled with an "I'm not good enough for her" insecurity. Desdemona was also very young. Estimated to be between 15-17. To Othello, she could cheat, with her being in her prime. Audience feels sympathy for her because of her naivete, however.

I believe the biggest strength of Shakespeare is his, what John Keats calls, "negative capability". Shakespeare never gives any justification for his flawed characters. He let the humanity of the characters play out. In fact, the race dimension is brought in the open by critics. The Elizabethan audience were expected to understand the "othering" process without any explicit mention. So, the marginalisation of Othello, coupled with Iago's sceheming brought about his downfall.

Shakespeare leaves a lot unsaid, and implied. It is up to us to decode them. The handkerchief could be a "flimsy" reason, but it could have been the culminating point for Othello's insecurity. And plays always represent a point that is high in dramatic intensity. So Othello started with O-D marriage. We have references to how their affair progressed- just as Othello describes it. We don't know about Desdemona's exact emotions. She mostly keeps agreeing with Othello, you know? There are gaps that we need to fill.

There could be many reasons why you find Othello less convincing.

It could be the language. God knows Shakespeare isn't an easy read unless you understand the literary and temporal space of Elizabethan England. Rudra, however, is located in the present. We get him. Who knows? 200 years from now, Rudra would be an enigma.

Then, there is TIME for the show to explore characters. Shakespeare only had one evening to enact a story. So you know, being interested in PoCo, you should know that YOUR location and cultural background allows for a certain understanding. These soaps are TRP janta fare. Maybe tomorrow they'll do a Macbeth on you, and you'd be lost. Numbers are everything.

I'm not offended at all. In fact, I'm glad you created this space for discussion. But I do believe Shakespeare in the canon totes deserves the position. That elitist Eliot wouldn't have been a fan, otherwise. 😆
Edited by Exprimere - 11 years ago

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