Is this a failure of Vidur niti ?

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Cotswolds

@Cotswolds

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

I always had this question...

Vidur is considered an intelligent, fearless minister. He unearthed the plot in Varnavart to burn pandavas alive. He was instrumental in their escape and advised them to lie low. It was by fate, Arjun won Draupadi's hand and then their true identity was revealed to Dhritarashtra. The whole exile was more than year and gave enough time for Duri to make friends and consolidate his position as a futu king.

Infact, Dhritrashtra appointed him as yuvraj after the news onf pandavas demise and it made difficult for yudhi to reclaim his kingdom and finally led to division of kingdom. Then again, duri got the best Hastinapur while Pandavas were offered a barren khandavprastha.

If you look at the final outcome, dont you think it was an abject failure of vidurniti ? What was the point of keeping identity hidden so long to be detrimental to pandavas future ?

What do you guys think about this ?

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simplysappie

@simplysappie

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Posted: 12 years ago

I think that at that point of time what mattered to him the most was pandavas's safety ... He asked them to lie to let the dust settle down ... When Dhrit would've made duri yuvraaj he might have had agreed without his liking because he couldn't disclose about pandavas being alive lest duri will make sn attempt on his life again .. And that's where everything went wrong ... Vidur wanted pandavas to come out strong as never before and everything just slipped out of hand ... Who knew that the blind dhrit would become mentally blind in putra moha .. And what can a minister do if the king refuses to listen to him ... And even today what we can we do immediately to a government which refuses to listen to us .. Even we have to wait for elections... Or we go on demonstrating n get beaten up or tear gassed ..

Edited by simplysappie - 12 years ago

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Diala D

@...Diala...

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

As far as I remember, Vidura's part stops with the tunnel digging.. First he gives the clue to Yudi in coded language.. then he sends a digger to dig the tunnel..

decision to stay in hiding because of lack of wealth and power was made by Yudishtar.. Bhima suggests getting back to Hastinapura and breaking the secret.. but Yudi refuses and speaks his logic..

Edited by ...Diala... - 12 years ago

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Cotswolds

@Cotswolds

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: simplysappie
I think that at that point of time what mattered to him the most was pandavas's safety ... He asked them to lie to let the dust settle down ... When Dhrit would've made duri yuvraaj he might have had agreed without his liking because he couldn't disclose about pandavas being alive lest duri will make sn attempt on his life again .. And that's where everything went wrong ... Vidur wanted pandavas to come out strong as never before and everything just slipped out of hand ... Who knew that the blind dhrit would become mentally blind in putra moha .. And what can a minister do if the king refuses to listen to him ... And even today what we can we do immediately to a government which refuses to listen to us .. Even we have to wait for elections... Or we go on demonstrating n get beaten up or tear gassed ..

😆😆 Liked it. Very apt analogy. So seeds of current govt affairs were sown in ancient times. India offered a big zero to the world not only in mathematics but in politics as well. (j/k)

thanks for your views but stil not quite sure how pandavas will come out strong as never before. They were simply living in the forest. No strategic alliance was built for them BY ViIDUR. No doubt marriage with Draupadi made them strong to convince Dhrit but again it was not due to any of Vidur's clever manipulation.

Also threat from Duri was always looming at large so not sure how this lying low helped. Duri wanted the kingdom and he would have attempted many times. If they were shown to be alive after foiling plot without pointing fingers at duri, purochan being primary witness could have led to back door successful negotiations.

Edited by Cotswolds - 12 years ago

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Cotswolds

@Cotswolds

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: ...Diala...
As far as I remember, Vidura's part stops with the tunnel digging.. First he give the clue to Yudi in coded language.. then he sends a digger to dig the tunnel..

decision to stay in hiding because or lack of wealth and power was made by Yudishtar.. Bhima suggests getting back to Hastinapura and breaking the secret.. but Yudi refuses and speaks his logic..

From what I have read, it was on Vidur's advice they decided to stay in the forest.

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Sabhayata

@Sabhayata

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+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

as per what i understand the reason why pandavas dont reveal themsleves is becuase if they did and told everyone what duryodhan did then war was inevitable and at that time they didnt have any army of their own to fight a war.Hence after pandavas marry druapadi and have a powerfull ally like Drupad they decided to reveal themselves becuase even if there was a war they would have a powerful king and his army backing them

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Cotswolds

@Cotswolds

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Sabhayata
as per what i understand the reason why pandavas dont reveal themsleves is becuase if they did and told everyone what duryodhan did then war was inevitable and at that time they didnt have any army of their own to fight a war.Hence after pandavas marry druapadi and have a powerfull ally like Drupad they decided to reveal themselves becuase even if there was a war they would have a powerful king and his army backing them

Thanks for sharing your view.

So you mean, duri would have kept trying and as dhrit was for duri, pandav would always be in danger unless backed up by powerful alliance ?. Hence they did not reveal themselves..

You have a point there.

But the point remains, vidur did not help pandavas in securing alliance secretly. It was just a sheer luck. Vidur had no game plan.

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Diala D

@...Diala...

Sparkler

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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Cotswolds
From what I have read, it was on Vidur's advice they decided to stay in the forest.

not really... Vidura stops with this.. he just says play sensible.. Yudi picks it up from there and moves one..

"Yudhishthira replied, 'The virtuous Vidura said unto me that we should know that the mansion (for our accommodation at Varanavata) hath been built of inflammable materials. He said unto me, 'The path of escape too shall not be unknown to thee,'--and further,--'Those that can control their senses can acquire the sovereignty of the whole world.'--The reply that I gave unto Vidura was, 'I have understood thee.'

Visiting Draupadi Swayamvar was per Vyas' advise who also pre-informed that she is destined be their shared wife..

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AR4eve

@AR4eve

Voyager

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

I agree Pandavas safety was the primary concern because if Lakshagragh happened something worse could have been planned by Duryodhan n his crew to eradicate the Pnadavas

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Cotswolds

@Cotswolds

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#10

Originally posted by: ...Diala...

not really... Vidura stops with this.. he just says play sensible.. Yudi picks it up from there and moves one..

"Yudhishthira replied, 'The virtuous Vidura said unto me that we should know that the mansion (for our accommodation at Varanavata) hath been built of inflammable materials. He said unto me, 'The path of escape too shall not be unknown to thee,'--and further,--'Those that can control their senses can acquire the sovereignty of the whole world.'--The reply that I gave unto Vidura was, 'I have understood thee.'

Visiting Draupadi Swayamvar was per Vyas' advise who also pre-informed that she is destined be their shared wife..

Thanks Diala for this. So Vidur's role was to save them from fire and it was Pandava's decision to remain incognito. I was not aware of it.