Jalaal-Jodha: Dil-Dimaag-Maaham ki Jung Jaari Hai. - Page 11

My dear Jaya and Vicki,

Atta girl, Jaya! I simply loved the account of the bravery of the wife of the guard at the Chitradurga fort. I think Jodha would have been as brave, but then she would not have had this millstone of ghrina to carry around her neck, which is comforting and reassuring for her.

Vicki, as for the PM, it will not really serve the only useful purpose, of clarifying the debate for all your readers. So don't bother, unless you really want to. I have already set out what I felt were important factual point to be kept in mind as background info while assessing these issues. I don't think it is worth your taking all that extra trouble for discussing it between just you and me.

Lastly, the delightful precap reminded me of nothing so much as a wife waking up her husband at 2 am on a cold winter night and asking him to investigate a noise in the basement. Jalal's face as he looked at the khanjar his biwi had handed him was a treat!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: deejagi

Dear Shayamala & Vicki (I hope i can take that liberty to address you by name),

Very well analysed. All I can say is that Jodha doesn't think with open mindedness or think logically. Ok she saw some black robed people robbed th temple and looted the wealth by slashing down the innocent soldiers who were taking a nap after having ann heavy meal, so they could not even had time to retrive thei swords which were clunnged to their waist band? Did she felt bad for the soldiers as they last their sweet sleep or for the Kalimata who lost all her jewelleries becuse the mughals didn't annouce their arrival well in advnce that the Amer soldiers wyuld have time to think of a strategy to fight or to take out all the ornaments adorned to the deity and left the place (temple) to safeguard the jewells and their own head? What did she expected the soldiers to do, they were supposed to be alert all through the day & night and guard the city & teh citizens. When their own soldiers have faile her, why blame the Mughals?

OK, if she had visited the spot (she was indeed, and she is the eye witness to the reckage), what made her to not to fight the thieves? She was an ace archer and sword fighter, so why she didn't took th incharge of counter attack than witnessing it and waiting to avenge her revenge for a later date? What for sh learnt the lessons on archerry an sword fighting? Down in Karnataka, when the HIderalli's troop tried to enter the fort of Chitradurga, a lady, wife of the guard who guards the secret entrance to the fort, (an ordinary house wife, who didn't even know the art of warfare) thought she doesn't have enough time to alert the army and her husband who was having his meal, so immediately rushes to the spot with her wooden pound and started hitting the heads of the enemy soldiers one by one and pulled them across and piled the dead bodies to one side so that she had clear vision of the secret entry and also to hide it from teh enemies. By teh time the soldier (guard) come to teh spot, he could see his wife in the from of Kali with open hair and fully meared with blood. That was the conviction, we expect from a princess or queen. This is what I had expected atleast during the tiger attack than lighting a fire with teh help of stones.

What is the guaranty that those who attacked the temple were actually mughal sainiks and not some one in disguise of them? Rather than carrying out this grina all thorugh till date, Jodha could have asked Jalal to return the looted deity's ornaments as a marriage package alongwith her other wishes of staying as Hindu & continueing with her idol worship. Atleast then it would have made sense and she had he opt moment.

Coming to Maham Jodha's verbal war, Yes, maham was totally towering Jodha with her fixture as well as verbal assault. She kept on asking Jodha who are you to take him to temple and one simple answr from Jodha would have silenced her. She is His wife and has every right to take him with her be it temple or to a mosque. kair, when she herself is not accepting him as her husband yet, how can we expect her to convey that to Maham. Still I liked it hen she said "will Jalal ever does anything which has been told to him by someone? he only does what he wants and now also he only chose to visit the temple, so pleae go and check with him why he took that decision. That was marvellous but calling her servent even before telling maham that she will arrange soem help to send her Jalal, and ordering the servent to take maham to Jalal was rubbing not only salt but also Mirch on the burning wounds of Maham. The expression of Jodha while Maham was blabering will the maulvi think when they come to know about Jalal's latest blunder, the visit to temple, were as if "why do I care what happens to him or she simply didn't understand anything to that matter".

About Maham's words" Humein uss Khudaa ki bhi zaroorat nahiin" is nothing about idol worship. She only meant, I am his mother and for a mother to reach her Son, even the god's help is also not required and in such case why do I require your servents. She talked only about her motherly instincts towards Jalal and didn't degrade anyone or any god.

Jalal would have been affected by Jodha and her outbusrt and her hatred, but he also came to know what is the stepping srtone to WIN OVER the hindus. He knows that just by aquiring relation with 2 rajvanshis doesnt help him to become the emperor of HIndustan for that he needs to win over the hearts of the milions of HIndus and that is possible only through his tolerance towards their religion and helping them enhancing the living conditions of those affected people. For that, he has laid teh foundation stone at Mahakali Madir by visitig and bowing in front of the godess.

With that vision, even Maham is happy (may be temperarily). Maham might ave felt bad and cribbed about the security check she had to under go prior to her visit to Jalal but as a Wazir, she will an dwould hve appreciated that causious step by the Amer king / price.

Jaya

Originally posted by: MoronsKiMallika

@Shyamala Dee.

I was not writing you a PM to hold a debate and nor was i going to write it to argue on anything with you. I just wanted a clarification on written history which obviously has been twisted and taken a creative license on to fit fiction in JA.

@Jaya.

I do see things in that POV , having read your post , but somehow Maaham's goodwill for Jalaal to stay an untarnished emperor seems marred to me. I mean, she has always been a 'kaafir' believer who would jump into a Hamaam even on being touched by a Hindu. So, even if i agree that she really was worried about Jalaal being put in the scrutiny spotlight by the Ulema , i still feel that her disgust and hatred for non-Muslims and other faiths is real. Just what i feel seeing her tone and her aggression.

Originally posted by: deejagi

@ Vicky, Yes, it is true that Maham treats the Hindu dasis @ Agra as if they are untouchables and at the same time she is worried for Jalal as well as for herself. The simple reason is that if by chance, Jalal has been critisized or banned by by Ulema, even she will lose her stand as Wazeria as it will be a best oppurtunity for Shariffudin than her son Adham Khan.Her aggression is more because it wa sJodha who took him (since she hates Jodha even will continue to hate her even in her grave)

Originally posted by: MoronsKiMallika

Hmm, that does make her rage multi-layered, right? Jodha has created a leviathan enemy in Maaham . I mean, aggression and pride are understandable when one attacks your honour, but Jodha needs to learn 'tact' when tackling her enemies. Maaham will surely come back with a vengeance on Jodha once they are back in Agra. And i don't think Jodha will be ready for it , as the attack will surely come wrapped in Jalaal.🥱😆😕

nice analysis. yest i liked Jodha most in her scene with Ma. so controlled and still showing MA her position.

rest of the episode was as expected. it will be interesting to see how Jalal makes his peace with Jodha now.

abt precap, that was interesting to see Jodha handing over her 'Khanjar' to jalal and signalling him to have a look , who is out of the room.

further i was thinking a little nok-zok btw them in this scene, like Jalal surprised to see that she is asking him (or rather ordering him) to check if anybody is there, and he expressing his surprise to her and then she taunting (with a jalal type smirk) him if he is scared , so she will go. and then Jalal making angry face, and goes to see. and Jodha smiling on it. If the precap turns out to be such scene, it will be worth watching

Dear Vicki,

Why not? Debate and argue about points, that is. Which is the real fun of writing here, and I do not see anything to feel reticent about that, since with you at the other end, it would all be done in perfect good humour and a light touch. My feeling was that it should be here so that others too could, if they were so inclined, join in. A PM would take as much of your time and would not be accessible to anyone else but the two of us. But just as you like.

About Mahaam hating kaafirs per se, of course she does, and my point was that this attitude would have been widespread in those days, like anti-black feelings in the US deep South till the 1960s/70s.

Washington DC is right next to Virginia, which was part of the Confederacy in the Civil War, and in the 1960s, the clubs on Massachusetts Avenue NW, on which our Embassy is located, did not allow non-whites to enter. The 1960s!!! That was colour, this was religion, and for others till it was outlawed after our independence, it was untouchability. It is always there, this contemptuous hatred for the other.

The kangaroo courts for blacks in the deep South of the US were widespread till the mid-20th century, and there were public lynchings of blacks, witnessed by large crowds of whites in their Sunday best, carrying their small kids on their shoulders. Later, they sent picture postcards of these events to their friends, circling themselves in the picture to show that they were there. It was only in 1923 that the US Post banned such postcards.

When it was religious, as with the Spanish Inquisition, non-Catholics were subjected to "the question", a euphemism for being tortured on the rack, till they agreed to convert. If they did not, they were burnt at the stake. This was during the 15th and 16th centuries. At least the Mughals did not organise auto da fes for the kaafirs!

I am sorry if I have made you feel sick, but that is the way it was, and compared to that, Mughal rule even with Mahaam around was relatively mild.

To revert, Mahaam's anti-kaafir stand is independent of her worries about Jalal being called to account by the ulema for being not just being too accommodating towards the kaafirs, but actually participating in their butparasti. That part is genuine, for she is a politically shrewd adviser. Bairam Khan, had he been around, would have reacted in exactly the same way. These are all khattar Central Asian Sunnis, not Sufis, with their gentle syncretism and broad tolerance.

Shyamala Di (I rather like this Di)

Originally posted by: MoronsKiMallika

@Shyamala Dee.

I was not writing you a PM to hold a debate and nor was i going to write it to argue on anything with you. I just wanted a clarification on written history which obviously has been twisted and taken a creative license on to fit fiction in JA.

@Jaya.

I do see things in that POV , having read your post , but somehow Maaham's goodwill for Jalaal to stay an untarnished emperor seems marred to me. I mean, she has always been a 'kaafir' believer who would jump into a Hamaam even on being touched by a Hindu. So, even if i agree that she really was worried about Jalaal being put in the scrutiny spotlight by the Ulema , i still feel that her disgust and hatred for non-Muslims and other faiths is real. Just what i feel seeing her tone and her aggression.