Do kauravas has another name?

snowdream thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#1

As per the story of Mahabharata Dhritrashtra's kids were called kauravas and Pandu's kids pandavas..But then taking in to account of Hastinapur empire even Pandavas were one among Kauravas- the kuru vansh descendants. Even then they were never called so.. and their battle was also name war between Pandavas and Kauravas.

Does that have any other story behind? Do kauravas name came from something else rather than being descendants of kuru vansh.??? Did Dhritrashtra denied considering pandavas as one among the royal descendants..???
Edited by snowdream - 11 years ago

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Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#2
Dhritarashtra's sons were also known as Dhritarashtras. As for the Kaurava name, usually, the name of the dynasty permeated through the eldest of sons of any ruler. So despite the fact that Duryodhan was less qualified to the throne than Yudhisthir, as far as family brand ownership goes, Dhritarashtra's sons got to own it, not the Pandavas.

Vyasa often referred to the Pandavas too as Kauravas, but that's more of careless writing on his part: he also described Krishna as all of the sub-groups of Yadavas, even though Krishna was a Vrishni. In different places, Krishna has been described as a Vrishni, Satwata, Bhoja, Andhaka and so on. Vyasa also did things like describe Dhrishtadyumna as Prishatha's son, rather than Drupada's.

At any rate, getting back to the original point, Dhritarashtra's direct descendants were called the Kauravas. After Yudhisthir, the dynasty went by the name of Purus or Pandavas, not Kauravas. Actually, given not only the war, but also the fact that after it, Yudhisthir directly became the king rather than wait for Dhritarashtra's death - something that Duryodhan couldn't have done - it makes more sense to state that the Kuru dynasty ended w/ Dhritarashtra and that the Pandava dynasty started either w/ Pandu or w/ Yudhisthir
snowdream thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#3

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Dhritarashtra's sons were also known as Dhritarashtras. As for the Kaurava name, usually, the name of the dynasty permeated through the eldest of sons of any ruler. So despite the fact that Duryodhan was less qualified to the throne than Yudhisthir, as far as family brand ownership goes, Dhritarashtra's sons got to own it, not the Pandavas.

Vyasa often referred to the Pandavas too as Kauravas, but that's more of careless writing on his part: he also described Krishna as all of the sub-groups of Yadavas, even though Krishna was a Vrishni. In different places, Krishna has been described as a Vrishni, Satwata, Bhoja, Andhaka and so on. Vyasa also did things like describe Dhrishtadyumna as Prishatha's son, rather than Drupada's.

At any rate, getting back to the original point, Dhritarashtra's direct descendants were called the Kauravas. After Yudhisthir, the dynasty went by the name of Purus or Pandavas, not Kauravas. Actually, given not only the war, but also the fact that after it, Yudhisthir directly became the king rather than wait for Dhritarashtra's death - something that Duryodhan couldn't have done - it makes more sense to state that the Kuru dynasty ended w/ Dhritarashtra and that the Pandava dynasty started either w/ Pandu or w/ Yudhisthir

wow a cool explanation..thanks😊
Edited by snowdream - 11 years ago
fatssrilanka thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Dhritarashtra's sons were also known as Dhritarashtras. As for the Kaurava name, usually, the name of the dynasty permeated through the eldest of sons of any ruler. So despite the fact that Duryodhan was less qualified to the throne than Yudhisthir, as far as family brand ownership goes, Dhritarashtra's sons got to own it, not the Pandavas.

Vyasa often referred to the Pandavas too as Kauravas, but that's more of careless writing on his part: he also described Krishna as all of the sub-groups of Yadavas, even though Krishna was a Vrishni. In different places, Krishna has been described as a Vrishni, Satwata, Bhoja, Andhaka and so on. Vyasa also did things like describe Dhrishtadyumna as Prishatha's son, rather than Drupada's.

At any rate, getting back to the original point, Dhritarashtra's direct descendants were called the Kauravas. After Yudhisthir, the dynasty went by the name of Purus or Pandavas, not Kauravas. Actually, given not only the war, but also the fact that after it, Yudhisthir directly became the king rather than wait for Dhritarashtra's death - something that Duryodhan couldn't have done - it makes more sense to state that the Kuru dynasty ended w/ Dhritarashtra and that the Pandava dynasty started either w/ Pandu or w/ Yudhisthir


Thanks for the lovely explanation
Mourni thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Dhritarashtra's sons were also known as Dhritarashtras. As for the Kaurava name, usually, the name of the dynasty permeated through the eldest of sons of any ruler. So despite the fact that Duryodhan was less qualified to the throne than Yudhisthir, as far as family brand ownership goes, Dhritarashtra's sons got to own it, not the Pandavas.

Vyasa often referred to the Pandavas too as Kauravas, but that's more of careless writing on his part: he also described Krishna as all of the sub-groups of Yadavas, even though Krishna was a Vrishni. In different places, Krishna has been described as a Vrishni, Satwata, Bhoja, Andhaka and so on. Vyasa also did things like describe Dhrishtadyumna as Prishatha's son, rather than Drupada's.

At any rate, getting back to the original point, Dhritarashtra's direct descendants were called the Kauravas. After Yudhisthir, the dynasty went by the name of Purus or Pandavas, not Kauravas. Actually, given not only the war, but also the fact that after it, Yudhisthir directly became the king rather than wait for Dhritarashtra's death - something that Duryodhan couldn't have done - it makes more sense to state that the Kuru dynasty ended w/ Dhritarashtra and that the Pandava dynasty started either w/ Pandu or w/ Yudhisthir


Nice 😊
Surya_krsnbhakt thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#6
Nice explanation Vrish. But then, Krishna was a Satvata, Vrishni, BHoja and all right? Since Vrishni was the son of Satvata, and Vasudeva was the grandson of Devamidha, the son of Vrishni. And on this side, Devaki was descended from Aahuka, who was the son of Andhaka. So Krishna is a Varshneya and Satvata from his dad and BHoja and Andhaka thru his mom right? BUt isn't it wierd that Devaki married her own cousin... thrice-removed? Ok I am moving away from the topic!

I also had the same doubt, regarding the Kaurava-pandava thingy but it slipped my mind. Thanks for that detailed answer!
Edited by Surya_krsnbhakt - 11 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#7
Surya

I missed this post of yours earlier, but thanks. However, a person was usually not known by his mother's parentage, unless he was adopted into that side, like Bahlika or Babruvahana. Therefore, it wouldn't be accurate to call Krishna an Andhaka. (Devaki-Vasudev's marriage is less strange to me than Krishna-Bhadra, Krishna-Mitravindya, Arjun-Subhadra, Nakul-Karenamati, Pradhyumna-Rukmavati or Anirudha-Rochana) Or else, one could call KYBA Yadavas, or Kunti vansh, as per Kunti's families.

I just watched Friday's episode, where Shakuni suggested to Dhritarashtra that only his sons be known as Kauravas. That was pretty redundant. As I mentioned above a few weeks ago, only the eldest son's lineage got to use that name. A younger brother could only use the same name if the older brother's family was wiped out. In the case of the Pandavas, it was not the case, and by the time it was, they had already established their identity as Pandavas.
Edited by .Vrish. - 11 years ago
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: .Vrish.


Vyasa often referred to the Pandavas too as Kauravas, but that's more of careless writing on his part: he also described Krishna as all of the sub-groups of Yadavas, even though Krishna was a Vrishni. In different places, Krishna has been described as a Vrishni, Satwata, Bhoja, Andhaka and so on. Vyasa also did things like describe Dhrishtadyumna as Prishatha's son, rather than Drupada's.

At any rate, getting back to the original point, Dhritarashtra's direct descendants were called the Kauravas. After Yudhisthir, the dynasty went by the name of Purus or Pandavas, not Kauravas. Actually, given not only the war, but also the fact that after it, Yudhisthir directly became the king rather than wait for Dhritarashtra's death - something that Duryodhan couldn't have done - it makes more sense to state that the Kuru dynasty ended w/ Dhritarashtra and that the Pandava dynasty started either w/ Pandu or w/ Yudhisthir


Krishna was technically a Shoora (his father Vasudeva being the son of Shoorasena) , though in the BG he refers to himself as a Vrishni.


Edited by varaali - 11 years ago
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: snowdream


As per the story of Mahabharata Dhritrashtra's kids were called kauravas and Pandu's kids pandavas..But then taking in to account of Hastinapur empire even Pandavas were one among Kauravas- the kuru vansh descendants. Even then they were never called so.. and their battle was also name war between Pandavas and Kauravas.

Does that have any other story behind? Do kauravas name came from something else rather than being descendants of kuru vansh.??? Did Dhritrashtra denied considering pandavas as one among the royal descendants..???



Yes, you are correct in saying that the Pandavas too are decendents of Emperor Kuru- and hence can be called Kauravas.

The coinage of the name "Pandavas" happened at the time of the formation of Indraparstha. The Kuru family - had for the first time in four generations- seen a split in the kingdom.

Now there were two branches of the same family ruling over two divisions of the same kingdom. Since Hastinapur- the traditional capital of the Kuru dynasty - remained with the Duryodhana, he and his immediate family members retained the patronymic name and came to be called the Kauravas.

The sons of Pandu- since they had carved a distinctly separate kingdom for themselves- were given a new identity- simply to distinguish them from their cousins' branch.

Maybe if Chitrangada had sons and Vichitraveerya also had sons, such a split would have occured two generations earlier.


india2050 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Surya

I missed this post of yours earlier, but thanks. However, a person was usually not known by his mother's parentage, unless he was adopted into that side, like Bahlika or Babruvahana. Therefore, it wouldn't be accurate to call Krishna an Andhaka. (Devaki-Vasudev's marriage is less strange to me than Krishna-Bhadra, Krishna-Mitravindya, Arjun-Subhadra, Nakul-Karenamati, Pradhyumna-Rukmavati or Anirudha-Rochana) Or else, one could call KYBA Yadavas, or Kunti vansh, as per Kunti's families.


Not related strictly to the topic at hand. I am just putting it here since there is no other place.

I am not sure why Vrish finds Arjun-Subhadra and Pradyumna-Rukhmavati marriage strange. Cross cousin marriages were quite common those days and even now in South India especially Tamil and Andhra societies encourage cross-cousin marriages and don't see as a problem.

Nakul-Karenmati could have a problem. Was Sishupal's mother Vasudev's blood sister. If yes then that's pretty strange.

In one Amar Chitra Katha, I read that Sahadev married Bhanumati (Krishna's grand-daughter). I am not sure how much that is true. Looks like Gotra was the primary deciding factor for marriage. It apprears that if you are of a different gotra then no problem marriage is allowed. I guess all these are big topics of research and discussion beyond IF.

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