ArHi FF! We, the people [Completed] - Page 65

Originally posted by: Kalyaani

This makes me wonder, what does the INC sees in Rahul Gandhi. I am not supporting NM either but I will accept his work and ability to get work done. I am again stressing on the fact that saffronisation of our country or thinking is not the solution to our problems but good governance surely is. When an educated man like MMS supports Rahul Gandhi, I wonder what it is the economist in him wants for a country he had a large hand in changing.

The man is a fantastic orator, not only does he speak well but speaks sense. He is best when he speaks in Gujrati, I have heard a few speeches and it is not too difficult to follow what he says, the passion for his work comes out clearly there.

Kalyaani, my apologies in advance if I come across as being confrontational. I appreciate that you clarified your point on saffronisation. But, I was still concerned that "good governance" is being divorced from the other concerns relating to saffronisation. Is that something that we have accepted as par for the course?

And, I had ask ... what work? If the answer is "governance", does not governance include not only aspects relating to the economy and infrastructure but also law and order and upholding the concepts enshrined in that basic document whose preamble starts with "We, the People ..."? Ministers and legislators affirm true faith and allegiance to that single document. Should that then not be the standard they should be measured against when tested? Success in several parts do not make up for the failure on other parts, even the very least of them.

Originally posted by: hegdemedha

Kalyaani, my apologies in advance if I come across as being confrontational. I appreciate that you clarified your point on saffronisation. But, I was still concerned that "good governance" is being divorced from the other concerns relating to saffronisation. Is that something that we have accepted as par for the course?

And, I had ask ... what work? If the answer is "governance", does not governance include not only aspects relating to the economy and infrastructure but also law and order and upholding the concepts enshrined in that basic document whose preamble starts with "We, the People ..."? Ministers and legislators affirm true faith and allegiance to that single document. Should that then not be the standard they should be measured against when tested? Success in several parts do not make up for the failure on other parts, even the very least of them.

Point noted...I want to ask you one question, is some success not better than no success at all?

I know you refer to incidents where the man in question has not done enough to preserve law and order. I would want to share something here. A very close friend of mine is from Gujarat and is from the minority community, she told me she would vote in a NM to power for he does some work at least. The past governments hardly did anything, coming to think of it there must be something to the man if he is the CM for the fourth time now.

Fundamentalists, irrespective of the colour they wear, the issues remain and I am not accepting or agreeing with anything. All I am doing is acknowledging good work or shall I just say it is work in progress.

Originally posted by: Kalyaani

Point noted...I want to ask you one question, is some success not better than no success at all?

I know you refer to incidents where the man in question has not done enough to preserve law and order. I would want to share something here. A very close friend of mine is from Gujarat and is from the minority community, she told me she would vote in a NM to power for he does some work at least. The past governments hardly did anything, coming to think of it there must be something to the man if he is the CM for the fourth time now.

Fundamentalists, irrespective of the colour they wear, the issues remain and I am not accepting or agreeing with anything. All I am doing is acknowledging good work or shall I just say it is work in progress.

Seriously why everyone forget about Sikh riots that happened after Indira Gandhi was assassinated? I remember one of the senior congressmen comment 'when a big tree falls surrounding plants will fall too' i dont remember which one since i was really young but it stuck with me all these years because of the cruelty of the comment...

My point here is Congress or BJP both are capable of heinous crimes...i would any day vote for a party which is less corrupt and is more accountable to the public i.e us ' we the people'

we shouldnt become pseudo secularist. for that we have our 24/7 news channels and other such intellectuals who sit in the debate panels in the same news channels.

Just found this in the net liked it sharing it with you and Rockbarbie...
http://sridharsubramaniam.org/?p=1324

@ Kalyaani: You refer to a friend of yours from the minority community. For that one friend, there are probably thousands of others from the minority community who do not feel safe enough to make that choice. The fact that he is the CM for the fourth time in the row only means that the majority -- that is the essence of the democracy we have chosen -- vote for him. That is the only legitimacy he requires under the law and that he has undisputedly won four times in a row. It does not mean that the fears of the minority community are appeased. For purely economic reasons, if nothing else, there may not be a repeat of an event that magnitude. But, the ghettoisation in several parts remain a stark truth. And, lest it appear that I speak the language thrown out in some parts of the media, let me clarify that I say this because I know this from lawyers involved in the cases.

Edit: Kalyaan, in the excitement of responding to that part of your answer that immediately drew a response from me, I forgot to answer your main question:-) -- Is not some success better than no success at all? My answer would be: Who decides which "some" is good enough and which "some" can be given up for the other "some" that is good enough?

@ nsippknd: Pointing out the faults of one does not mean an endorsement of the other. The pre-dominantly two party system at the national level that we have does lend itself easily to such conclusions.

However, "less corrupt" and "more accountable to the people" is not a crown that lies easily on the BJP's head either. One only needs look at the skeletons tumbling out in the states ruled by the party for the former and the history of the recent party elections for the latter.

I do think that one saying does hold true for all the parties: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The number of skeletons in the closets likely bears a direct proportion to the number of years in power.

I will leave this discussion here at this point ... and return to discuss the FF later, something that is way overdue:-)

@ RB: Apologies for diverting the discussion into this issue.

It's a strange thing ... the thing called coincidence.

With most of us having been too young to follow the details of Thatcher's premiership of the United Kingdom in the newspapers at that time, it was interesting to read over the past few days that she too was a divisive, polarising personality. What struck me in this piece was her view of government -- she too worked towards a small government. Just the very thing that RB raised here a few days ago.

Chapter 33: Part 2

"I have been waiting for you for a very long time. Where were you?" Arnav asked opening door.

Shukla raised an eyebrow and looked at Khushi.

"Ignore him. He goes on a high when he is plotting something evil." Khushi replied Shukla's unanswered question.

"No, I really was waiting for you regarding your report on Bhanu Pratap. It's easy to plan around people who are greedy for money and power have a bit of cunning streak along with political smartness. Its however very difficult to plan and anticipate a proportionate response from people who have severe violence streaks and a sadistic attitude towards things. Bhanu Pratap falls into the second category. He goes to whoever offers him the largest candy and holds incredible amount of grudge when the said candy size isn't what was promised. With that attitude, its best to know every step he is taking." Arnav explained.

"I do have some news on him," Shukla said and looked around the place searching for a chair or sofa or something to sit on. Seeing how Arnav and Khushi were sitting in floor, he followed their suit. "Bhanu Pratap wanted to be the party president and he believed that legacy was more important than talent. He wanted Dhananjay gone and he got it done. He wanted to bust the corruption racket via a NGO, he got it done. He didn't plan anything Arnav. He just wanted it to be done in exchange for support."

"Who did all of this for him?"

"Prasenjit Sarkar - the communist party leader and an influential name in the eastern parts of the country. Sarkar is building his own coalition support group and he has the support from Krishna Kumar as suspected. They have been hoarding politicians for the past few months. They are responsible for bringing no confidence motion to the table demanding the ruling coalition to resign after they lost majority." Shukla explained.

"But it's the opposition leader who has to pass no confidence motion unless they are all in it together." Arnav realized. "It's one of the oldest tricks in the book." He said looking at Khushi. "Here we thought they were following the aggressive notions of the Jha manifesto. I am almost disappointed." Arnav threw the papers in his hand.

"Arnav, they may not be following the manifesto to the T but they are definitely borrowing words from it. Here, take a look at this transcript." Shukla handed him a stack of paper and pointed to the specific page and paragraph. Khushi crawled towards Arnav and peeked over his shoulder.

"They have been orchestrating this movement for far too long. I don't understand why they have mobilized this only now." Shukla asked.

"Like us, they were waiting for the right moment. It's not that they haven't been trying Shukla it's just that whatever they have done till now hasn't gained national momentum. You can't simply walk in and shake the political stage of a country with a new party. The communist party is geographically concentrated and they are unable to gain traction elsewhere in the country. And then you have party with high religious sentiments reflecting an extreme right behavior. Like communist party, they haven't gained the traction they were hoping for because moderate rights win over easily with their liberalism. If they are truly motivated by Jha who was pro-religion and pro-labor and anti-bureaucracy, then they have been accumulating supporters – independents, smaller regional parties for quite some time now. To pull something this big – needs time." Arnav explained. "Do you think they knew what Akash was doing all this while?" Arnav asked Khushi.

"It's possible they knew and may have even had a few confrontations." Khushi replied. "Both the groups want to win this election – that's a given. What they want to do with the country later is as per their interpretation of the Jha manifesto. In the meantime all we have to do is fix the system, weed out the nonsensical politicians, get honest working men and women to work on it and hope that neither group wins."

"Easy-peasy," Arnav grinned. Khushi rubbed her forehead tiredly when her phone buzzed with incoming message.

"Can you get us a list of all the parties and politicians who are swinging towards these groups?" Arnav asked.

"Elections aren't in eight weeks – that was media speculation that all the states would have elections at the same time. Election commission has declared two different dates across the country to be conducted in two phases. The second phase is the largest and we would be going in four and half months." Khushi said.

"Isn't that good news?" Shukla asked. "You can implement what you wanted to do phase by phase and not be distracted."

"It's actually both good and bad news Shukla. We can see how both the teams are playing in the first phase and we will get an idea as to how they are going to proceed. But if we do our homework well in advance as in next four weeks it wouldn't matter what happens in those states. It's good because now we actually have a chance to…fix on certain things." Arnav said thoughtfully.

"Like what?"

"We can start with few departments: Chamber of commerce, national security board, advisor general and the likes." Arnav said airily. "We have to try to get back people who have left the country Shukla. I believe same thing happened to them what happened to kids of the 90s. They got tired of the crap policies, reservations, fee structures, lack of infrastructures in schools and colleges…it led to a massive brain drain back then. I see similar thing happening in governance sector too." Arnav replied.

"What do you want me to do next? I have to meet Rathore and give him a report on Bhanu Pratap," Shukla said.

"Tell him everything you know. Tell him that this is what you could come up in three days and after couple of more days you will have more information. Payal has traced money back to Bhanu Pratap but she couldn't trace anything between him and the others. However there may be some paper companies or dummy corporations set up by these people where they put in and draw out money." Arnav rattled off. Shukla nodded and was about to get up when the doorbell rang.

Arnav and Khushi looked at each other with confused looks. They weren't waiting for anyone.

"It's Malvika. She told me she would be coming here and I have explained to her what we are trying here." Shukla said getting up to open the door for her.

"They are awfully chummy," Arnav noted watching Shukla's retreating back. "Don't you think so?" He asked turning to look at Khushi. She simply shrugged.

Malvika sat on the floor and nodded at the two. "I am in." She simply said.

"Good. Payal is listening on recordings of Meera and Saini's conversation. Why don't you find out if Meera spoke to anyone from Krishna Kumar or Prasenjit Sarkar's party?" Arnav said.

"That's it?" Malvika was surprised.

"The conversations will give you a heads up of the ugliness you will be seeing and the kind of garbage you will be swimming in on a daily basis for next twenty months. I suggest you to take a sabbatical if you wish to be involved completely." Arnav said.

"I start my six month sabbatical from tomorrow." Malvika said tonelessly. A pause later she asked Arnav. "Why did you lie to me about military coup?"

Arnav chuckled. "I just wanted to see your reaction."

"And?" She asked hesitantly.

"You passed with flying colors Malvika. You wouldn't be here if you hadn't reacted the way you did that day." Khushi replied on Arnav's behalf.

Malvika didn't know how to respond.

"Can we really do this?" Malvika asked slowly.

"Somebody's got to try, right?" Arnav replied lightly.

But she could see the storm in his and Khushi's eyes. It wasn't a simple task they had taken up. She still didn't know why they were doing what they were doing. Their answers had so many holes and theories so wooly that she didn't know if they were telling the truth or hiding behind a bad lie.

For now she didn't care.

Happy Ugadi all, more to come

Edit

Nepotism the curse in our country's politics...

Malvika is asking the question the keeps popping up in my mind "Can they really do this?" and like RB's story keeps answering me with "Somebody has got to try."

It's so good to see you back with this story , RB! So they were just pulling Malvika's chain. Bhanu Pratap reminds me of Condy Corleone's husband in Godfather, and a little bit of Sonny Corleone as well- brash, all brawn and no brain. Did he really think he'd get away with orchestrating his brother's downfall when he knows his dad has an arsenal of highly intelligent people who can get to the bottom of things without leaving a trace. It would be interesting to see how Rathode reacts to this.

Originally posted by: hegdemedha

@ Kalyaani: You refer to a friend of yours from the minority community. For that one friend, there are probably thousands of others from the minority community who do not feel safe enough to make that choice. The fact that he is the CM for the fourth time in the row only means that the majority -- that is the essence of the democracy we have chosen -- vote for him. That is the only legitimacy he requires under the law and that he has undisputedly won four times in a row. It does not mean that the fears of the minority community are appeased. For purely economic reasons, if nothing else, there may not be a repeat of an event that magnitude. But, the ghettoisation in several parts remain a stark truth. And, lest it appear that I speak the language thrown out in some parts of the media, let me clarify that I say this because I know this from lawyers involved in the cases.

Edit: Kalyaan, in the excitement of responding to that part of your answer that immediately drew a response from me, I forgot to answer your main question:-) -- Is not some success better than no success at all? My answer would be: Who decides which "some" is good enough and which "some" can be given up for the other "some" that is good enough?

@ nsippknd: Pointing out the faults of one does not mean an endorsement of the other. The pre-dominantly two party system at the national level that we have does lend itself easily to such conclusions.

However, "less corrupt" and "more accountable to the people" is not a crown that lies easily on the BJP's head either. One only needs look at the skeletons tumbling out in the states ruled by the party for the former and the history of the recent party elections for the latter.

I do think that one saying does hold true for all the parties: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The number of skeletons in the closets likely bears a direct proportion to the number of years in power.

I will leave this discussion here at this point ... and return to discuss the FF later, something that is way overdue:-)

@ RB: Apologies for diverting the discussion into this issue.

wow...an update after a long time..thank u rb..
so they were not planning it like that...oh...so no millitary action..
and am really wondering if they can get to do this!