Which death was saddest in Mahabharat?

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Whose death was the saddest for you? And why?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

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Posted: 14 years ago

#11

I happen to dislike Bheeshma as well b'cos of the Amba incident - my sympathies are fully w/ her. If Bheeshma/Vichitravirya was not invited to a swayamvar, and if none of the 3 princesses, unlike Rukmini, involved wished to marry them, he had no business violating the swayamvar and abducting them. Yeah, granted Shalva was a villain who was ultimately killed by Krishna, but that doesn't mean that Amba didn't deserve the right to choose him. And Ambika and Ambalika were forced to marry a ruler, who died w/o leaving them w/ kids, and p🤬ing them to Vyasa. 😡 Had Bheeshma not gone there, all 3 princesses could have married 3 kings of their choices, and lived happily (although Amba would then ultimately have been widowed by Krishna).

In BRC, they tried to paint Amba & Sikhandi as vindictive, since they were obsessed w/ worshipping characters like Bheeshma & Karna, but Amba was fully justified in everything she did. Shalva couldn't accept her w/o looking like he was accepting charity from an enemy, Vichitravirya and Bheeshma wouldn't, and no other ruler who knew of this would accept her either. So that life was toast, and after even Parashuram failed to get her justice, she just had to keep getting reborn until she hit the justice jackpot.

That one incident was enough to make me put Bheeshma in my blacklist.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

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Posted: 14 years ago

#12

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
I happen to dislike Bheeshma as well b'cos of the Amba incident - my sympathies are fully w/ her. If Bheeshma/Vichitravirya was not invited to a swayamvar, and if none of the 3 princesses, unlike Rukmini, involved wished to marry them, he had no business violating the swayamvar and abducting them. Yeah, granted Shalva was a villain who was ultimately killed by Krishna, but that doesn't mean that Amba didn't deserve the right to choose him. And Ambika and Ambalika were forced to marry a ruler, who died w/o leaving them w/ kids, and p🤬ing them to Vyasa. 😡 Had Bheeshma not gone there, all 3 princesses could have married 3 kings of their choices, and lived happily (although Amba would then ultimately have been widowed by Krishna).

In BRC, they tried to paint Amba & Sikhandi as vindictive, since they were obsessed w/ worshipping characters like Bheeshma & Karna, but Amba was fully justified in everything she did. Shalva couldn't accept her w/o looking like he was accepting charity from an enemy, Vichitravirya and Bheeshma wouldn't, and no other ruler who knew of this would accept her either. So that life was toast, and after even Parashuram failed to get her justice, she just had to keep getting reborn until she hit the justice jackpot.

That one incident was enough to make me put Bheeshma in my blacklist.

Of course Bhishma was not a completely white character either, but compared to the other Kauravas he was a lot better. I also sympathize with Amba and feel she was greatly wronged in the case of her Swayamvar, and I don't blame her for being born as Shikhandi for the purpose of killing Bhishma just like Dhristadyumna. One, it would have been impossible for the Pandavas to kill Bhishma without Shikhandi's help, since no warrior on Earth could defeat him (taking Krishna out of the equation of course, he being God and all), and two, it teaches humanity that one must not make vows in haste, like Bhishma did. Though his Brahmacharya diksha and his oath to Hastinapura were commendable when they were made, they brought him more sorrow and guilt in life than happiness. He could not bring justice to Amba, and he had to side with the Kauravas despite them being on the side of Adharma.

But yes, the fact that Bhishma kidnapped three princesses against their will does not bode well for his character, since the whole message Krishna left behind Rukmini 'Haran' was that women must not be forced to marry against their will, like Rukmini was being forced to marry Sishupal, and that their opinions when it comes to marriage are just as important as the men's. However, I still tend to like Bhishma because of the remorse he feels later on...I feel remorse greatly redeems a person if it's truly genuine, and Bhishma was the only one to acknowledge on his deathbed that he made many wrong decisions in his life that he wished he could change. The other Kauravas committed much greater sins than Bhishma did in the case of Amba, that his seems quite paltry in comparison.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#13

Largely agree w/ the above, except for one thing. Bheeshma had the boon that he would only die when he wanted to - it didn't make him undefeatable. Aside from Krishna, Arjun & Pradhyumna were capable of defeating him, and maybe some other Yadavs, like Balaram. I wouldn't read too much into his defeat of Parashuram.

Did Bheeshma actually express remorse? I'm asking in terms of the text, not BRC, which is a joke when it comes to authenticity.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

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Posted: 14 years ago

#14

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
Largely agree w/ the above, except for one thing. Bheeshma had the boon that he would only die when he wanted to - it didn't make him undefeatable. Aside from Krishna, Arjun & Pradhyumna were capable of defeating him, and maybe some other Yadavs, like Balaram. I wouldn't read too much into his defeat of Parashuram.

Did Bheeshma actually express remorse? I'm asking in terms of the text, not BRC, which is a joke when it comes to authenticity.

Yes, I guess that's right too, but he wouldn't have told Yudhisthira the secret of his death unless the Pandavas had requested him to be fair to them and asked for a boon, since they too were his grandsons. It was only when Bhishma granted them one boon that Yudhisthira, as per Krishna's instructions, asked him for the secret to his death. So had Yudhisthira not asked that, would Bhishma have willingly laid down his arms, since that would be breaking his oath to Hastinapura? I'm guessing Shikhandi became a reason for his death largely to repect Amba's boon from Lord Shiva, or else any of the great warriors could have killed him like you said.

I haven't read Vyasa's Mahabharata in full, but I did read some English translations others wrote. As per those texts, Bhishma showed remorse for his vows since the moment Duryodhana began to antagonize the Pandavas and Bhishma got an inkling what would happen to the Kuru Vansh. He also showed major remorse during Krishna's peace mission, and also on his bed of arrows after he was defeated. He hated working for Duryodhan since the latter was never grateful and even less ethical, and the major remorse for his vows came because he could not support Dharma if he wished to stick true to his vows. It eventually became vows. vs. Dharma for him.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#15

Even that I think was made up - Krishna didn't suggest that he go to Bheeshma or do anything of that sort. He just suggested that he put Shikhandi on his chariot and mount a joint attack on him.

I guess I have to read Shanti parva to see if he said anything like it. From what I know, it was more of a political discourse to Yudhisthir on how to rule a kingdom, but it had nothing stupid about not dividing a country.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

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Posted: 14 years ago

#16

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
Even that I think was made up - Krishna didn't suggest that he go to Bheeshma or do anything of that sort. He just suggested that he put Shikhandi on his chariot and mount a joint attack on him.

I guess I have to read Shanti parva to see if he said anything like it. From what I know, it was more of a political discourse to Yudhisthir on how to rule a kingdom, but it had nothing stupid about not dividing a country.

Oh, really? See, I have never read Vyasa's Mahabharata in full so I don't know which stories are made up or not in translations. Even Ramanand Sagar's SK showed the Pandavas going to Bhishma with a request for a boon.

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Cuty16

@Cuty16

Voyager

Posted: 14 years ago

#17

Originally posted by: _Vrish_

That's not quite right - in the first 10 days, Bheeshma did enough damage, and a lot of major warriors died - like some of Duryodhan's brothers, all of Virata's & Satyaki's sons, Arjun's son Iravana, and a number of sons of Drupada, like Satrajit & Vikra. But yeah, on day 14, Arjun, Satyaki & Bhima wiped out 8 of the Kaurava akshaunis (the Kaurava's originally had 11 akshaunis, whereas the Pandavas had only 7). After that day, things went only downhill for the Kauravas.

real war not in dat sense of damage created.
Before Abhimanyus death it was going as a fair war widout the rules breaking by Pandavas side.
But after his death Pandavas has all set for victory by hook or crook.
I tolled dat only.