The question of multiculturalism in the West

joie de vivre thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#1
From 11th of April, women in France will be banned from wearing the niqab ' the full-face Muslim veil ' in any public place. To quote the French PM, "The French Republic lives in a bare-headed fashion." The person breaking the law can be asked to carry out public service duty as part of the punishment or as an alternative to the fine. Forcing a woman to wear a niqab or a burqa is punishable by a year in prison and a 30,000 euro fine. Forcing a minor to do the same thing is punishable by two years in prison and 60,000 euro. The government has called this coercion "a new form of enslavement that the republic cannot accept on its soil."

"Given the damage it produces on those rules which allow the life in community, ensure the dignity of the person and equality between sexes, this practice, even if it is voluntary, cannot be tolerated in any public place," the French government said when it sent the measure to parliament in May. Some 82 percent of people polled approved of a ban, while 17 percent disapproved. Clear majorities also backed burqa bans in Germany, Britain and Spain, while two out of three Americans opposed it, the survey found. The ban pertains to the burqa, a full-body covering that includes a mesh over the face, and the niqab, a full-face veil that leaves an opening only for the eyes.


This brings me to the broader question of multiculturalism in the Western World (North America, Europe and Australia). There's a wave of, as it were, anti-multiculturalistic sentiment that's sweeping across Europe. The British PM has gone on record to say that multiculturalism is a failed experiment, and the German Chancellor Angela Merkel echoes his thoughts. France has banned the burqa, but I don't think a France-like ban can ever be imposed in America or Britain. Not many non-French Europeans are necessarily against it, even if they feel a ban is perhaps a little much. Nonetheless, they admit that seeing a woman in a burqa or even a niqab is deeply disconcerting. If one visits British or French message boards (even liberal, lefty ones like The Guardian), there's a definite skein on Islamophobia and anti-multiculturalism that runs through the comments.


One of the main reasons cited by the detractors of multiculturalism is the fact that ethnic minorities, Muslims especially, don't make any perceivable effort to integrate. The argument posited contends that the onus to try to integrate with the indigenous culture lies with the immigrants. I can't speak about Europe, as I don't live there, but from what I've read and heard, Europe is far less religious than America. Islam is a religious identity, and it isn't acceptable for a Muslim European to consider himself Muslim and only then European. In other words, if you're a Muslim from Gujarat or Bangladesh and are relocating to the UK permanently, then it's incumbent upon you to adopt the British culture, rather than cling to your native culture, or rather, the parts of your native culture which is clearly at odds with the secular and liberal Western values (like for instance Islam's stance on homosexuality, misogyny, oppression of women, adultery, equality et cetera). If you're a Bangladeshi native moving to the UK, then you have to be proficient in English, mingle with the British people, preferably intermarry, not consider religion to be a particularly important part of your life and feel a strong sense of Britishness. Oh, and also support England when Bangladesh play England at Lords'. Now Bangladesh can be substituted for India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/ Turkey etc, and well, you get the picture. The refrain is that one cannot call oneself British unless you're well and truly British and feel British at heart. It's when loyalties are split, or worse, partisan that the conundrum arises.


Now initially when I read these comments, they were a bit shocking to say the least. Needless to say, I'd judged the commenters as a bunch of ignorant and paranoid Islamohpobes (comments such as "they'll try to supplant their culture with ours" induced me to come to the conclusion). But the more I read, a semblance of sense began to emerge. What seemed egregious to me when mulled over from my perspective seemed reasonable to me when I put myself in their shoes. The thing is, being raised in India (and there's no place on earth more multi-cultural than India, where there are a plethora of languages and at least four prominent religions and not to mention the mind-boggling regional and communal diversity) has taught me to take multiculturalism for granted. No, I don't feel uncomfortable at all seeing a woman clad in burqa in Bangalore, no more than I feel uncomfortable seeing a woman walk about in a outrageously short skirt. Then again, this is secular India I'm talking about. Yes, the extreme right wing religions fringe does exist, and inasmuch as it doesn't really affect my day-to-day life, I don't give much heed to it. But the same may not apply to France. What with the French population being meagre in contrast to India's population, perhaps burqa clad women stick out like a sore thumb in France. Furthermore, Indian Muslims and Sikhs and Christians are better-integrated with the Hindu majority. Even if your name is Rose and you live in Kerala, you're likely to speak Malayalam than a European language and eat rice than fish and chips, and if you're name is Amir and live in Bombay, you're more likely to speak Hindi than Arabic. Whereas the same doesn't quite apply to South Asians living in the UK or elsewhere in Europe. A Patel in London is less likely to cook Yorkshire pudding than dal and roti. This seems especially true viz South Asian Brits and Turks in Germany. Surveys state that more than 50% of British Pakistanis hunt for brides in their native Pakistan, and Turks remain isolated from mainstream German culture, evincing a thinly veiled disdain for Western culture and clinging on to their own culture's superiority. Immigrant's contribution to the society is paltry and seclusion of a sizable minority isn't something which is considered conducive.


This is true enough. I've heard my own family pontificate about the "evils" of Western culture. Kids being sexually active in their adolescence in particular is completely unacceptable, and a host of other reasons are also cited, sexual openness being the foremost. I suppose the sentiment might be the same with South Asians living overseas as well. Taking pride in one's native culture or ethnic origin is all very well, but taking pride in your adopted country is important as well, is it not? It does seem fair enough, then, for a Westerner to feel "well, if you don't like it here, you're free to f**k off to whichever hellhole you crawled out from", doesn't it?


Thoughts? If France right in banning the burqa, to induce people to try and integrate more and adopt French values over Islamic ones? Is multiculturalism feasible anymore, especially in an increasingly xenophobic and economically fragile Europe? Is integration absolutely necessary, or it is fine and dandy to live as we've lived all our lives as long as we don't bother others? Can native and foreign culture ever be amalgamated, or are they two mutually exclusive entities, leaving us with an either-or choice between the two? And were you to make such a choice, what would you choose? 😊




Edited by joie de vivre - 14 years ago

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joie de vivre thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#3
Oh dear. I hadn't seen that, I'm afraid. I can't delete my post either. :( Either a mod will have to trash this, or have to edit the post, seeing as it isn't exclusively about the ban, but also touches on the issue of multiculturalism. Has that been debated before? I'd be interested to read that thread, if it's already there? :)
344471 thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#4

^^ Your English is very good. And no, you need not edit or delete it. Given that the old thread is over a[n?] year old and is closed, I think this thread can remain how it is. I just posted that link for further reading.

To repost some of my thoughts from the old thread:
- If democracy is about the separation of the State and Church and equality of the citizens of the nation, then snatching one of their basic rights (unless it is affecting the entire nation - like the face-veil) - i.e. their clothing - is pure hypocrisy.

- The face-veil should be prohibited, but not so much for religious purposes as much as for security reasons. Criminals can and often have gone undetected through the use of face-veils. Moreover, the covering of the face - ones identity - can lead to a number of social and communication problems (like imagine teaching a class full of women covering their faces underneath a veil and you not even knowing whom you are talking with). The face is a very integral part of one's identity and hence should be open in public places - but people should be free to use the burqa at private places. Just like full nudity isn't tolerated in public places, full covering of one's face should not be, either.

- The rest should be left to the individuals themselves. Whether they wish to cover themselves with layers upon layer of clothing (excluding the face) or walk freely in skimpy clothes shouldn't be anyone else's business. So things like headscarves, dupatta, etc should be left to the individuals. And I don't just mean it for girls - even men should be free to cover themselves (or not cover themselves) as much as they want - unless of course it is taking things to an extreme. There should be some sort of restrictions - but the basics ought to be left upon the individuals.

- I don't believe that people are always "brainwashed" into these lifestyles, but I can see why some would feel that way. Having been raised in a moderately conservative family and environment, I've had enough exposures to such people who believe in dressing modestly (which is very subjective anyway) without any sort of direct pressures or forces from their immediate family members or nearby people. So I don't think it's entirely rational to just ban the burqa without going through deeper research into this subject and understanding the root cause and psychology behind this practice. But at the same time, the Muslim population (and add to that people who wear burqa) of France is almost negligible, so it's understandable why people have this misconception that it is always forced.

- Even if the government wants to ban the use of burqa, headscarves, other religious symbols, etc it should be done slowly, by raising awareness and educating the population even more. Using force is not the right thing and can come off as counter-productive in the long run.
Edited by PhoeniXof_Hades - 14 years ago
-Believe- thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#5
Posted in Another thread:

Originally posted by: Believe

I think Government laws do not equate religious laws...I just wanna say banning covering the face in government offices or sensitive areas - like education centers, airports - is only reasonable. Even allowing private businesses to ask people to uncover their faces seems fair enough to me. (Although granted, I tend to take more of a liberal attitude towards what businesses should be allowed to do on their property) However, a complete ban of the burkha in public areas is a gross violation of these womens' fundamental right to practice their religion.

Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#6
How about meeting half way and reaching a compromise.
There are some nice and fashionable burkas too.
But for some it is a very strict religious practise and maybe difficult to change.
But in future if there is more radioactive danger more burkas would be needed.
monar thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#7
I personally feel people should get freedom of religion and living, that doesn't mean indecency in human kind. but then I disagree equally to both the extremes - one force wearing Burqa and the other extreme stop people to wear what they want. So in this world either extreme exist! we can't complaint for one.
Edited by monar - 14 years ago
Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: monar

I personally feel people should get freedom of religion and living, that doesn't mean indecency in human kind. but then I disagree equally to both the extremes - one force wearing Burqa and the other extreme stop people to wear what they want. So in this world either extreme exist! we can't complaint for one.

Well if it is worn voluntarily for religious purposes it is fine.
It is difficult for us to judge.
But sometimes we do have to take public interest, well being and safety too. So a compromise has to be reached I guess.
monar thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: Summer3

Well if it is worn voluntarily for religious purposes it is fine.

It is difficult for us to judge.
But sometimes we do have to take public interest, well being and safety too. So a compromise has to be reached I guess.



I agree to you, religious believes shall be volunteered not forced, and in my post I meant the same, either extremes are wrong, whether forcing someone to do something without their wish or stopping someone to do what they feel or relate to , Still I keep public welfare and safety at priority in any society. and that is one of the reasons why I love India beside the fact Its my country...
anyways whatever we do or say... in this world things remain irrational


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