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akanna

@akanna

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 16 years ago

#91

Originally posted by: Ishan.

Yup i agree , but maybe they wanted to portray the dance as funny which they did successfully. About the costumes then even Shakti wasn't having a good costume in the solo episode. IT reminded me of McDonalds !! 😆😆 but her dance was very good that day so the costume didnt matter.Same for Kishore's and amrita's performance !!! 😃

Ishu, it's not that... I agree Shakti's costume colors were kinda like the McDonald's mascot. What I am trying to say is that every time they have a Tollywood dance on DID, they make the guys wear hot pink lungis and folded up such that their boxers are showing!! So it's that part which bugs a bunch of us here, as people dont wear those kind of lungis and in that manner in the South all the time... In some movies they show some characters like that to tease the union workers. If Kishore wore a PJ pant instead, I would have accepted it much better. And Amrita should have worn a Dhavani (half sari) or something like that... In fact Kishore's lungi outfit is the worst one, and compared to that Amrita's one is better I think! 😊

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Ishan

@Ishan.

Stunner

+ 8

Posted: 16 years ago

#92

Originally posted by: akanna

Ishu, it's not that... I agree Shakti's costume colors were kinda like the McDonald's mascot. What I am trying to say is that every time they have a Tollywood dance on DID, they make the guys wear hot pink lungis and folded up such that their boxers are showing!! So it's that part which bugs a bunch of us here, as people dont wear those kind of lungis and in that manner in the South all the time... In some movies they show some characters like that to tease the union workers. If Kishore wore a PJ pant instead, I would have accepted it much better. And Amrita should have worn a Dhavani (half sari) or something like that... In fact Kishore's lungi outfit is the worst one, and compared to that Amrita's one is better I think! 😊

Oh kk !!! I agree it was looking a bit weird but i dont think it was done deliberately to hurt the sentiments of SI's . 😃 Maybe they wanted us to take it in a light manner and enjoy it ! 😃

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akanna

@akanna

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 16 years ago

#93

Originally posted by: Ishan.

Oh kk !!! I agree it was looking a bit weird but i dont think it was done deliberately to hurt the sentiments of SI's . 😃 Maybe they wanted us to take it in a light manner and enjoy it ! 😃

Dont know Ishu... They do that all the time and so I have to consider it as ignorance otherwise... Because a lot of great films and artists are there in the South, it leaves a bad taste when Tollywood acts are shown in such awkward costumes which are not typical in the South... Last season Prince and Mangesh I think wore the same kind!! If you watch all the major stars' movie songs in the South, they dont wear clothes like that... They wear Jeans or Pants often...

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Aparajita

@yikes

Explorer

Posted: 16 years ago

#94

Originally posted by: akanna

@bold -- that's somewhat stereotyping imho... I have often felt several Bollywood film songs and dances as very loud and very inappropriate for kids to watch... But they dont show those kind of acts on DID for those songs, do they?? Yes, there are some film dances like that in South too, I agree, but they dont have to show those silly types all the time. There are a lot of them which are pure dance kind, and majority of them belong to that category. Only in mallu movies, dances are not a big deal in many movies with very strong stroyline. But in other South Indian languages, they have beautiful dances in all their movies. They have big group dance acts, but guys are not in lungis and girls are not in such outfit all the time. That's what we have been trying to say mainly...

When was the last time someone attempted a Tollywood dance in DID? The whole point of the performance was to capture the vibrancy of the South Indian Industry, which is much higher than what we see in Bollywood. I've seen alot of them myself, and they generally are faster, peppier and much more colourful. What Amrita and Kishore tried to capture was that spirit and energy. I don't think they tried to show the SI Industry in a negative light or tried to stereotype their dance, infact they were acknowleding the liveliness of the Industry.

And if we're so concerned about 'stereotyping', then Bollywood has been stoned much more than any other Indian film Industry. Right from the signature romantic films to the typical cliched 'emo' scenes, everything has been pretty much ripped apart and made fun of, in every form of media - films themselves, books, TV shows, news channels, newspapers, magazines, songs, serials. You name it. Hasn't the typical 'pelvic thrust' been stereotyped to the point of hilarity? Hasn't the 'romantic scene with the hero and heroine upon the top of the hill' become a mindset for the International Industry? Hasn't Madhuri's 'dhak dhak' been revised and re-revised more than n times, incorporating all sorts of 'silly' things?

Exaggerating is not always equivalent to 'stereotyping'. Rajnikant is so famous because of his unwavering style of flipping his sunglasses and his OTT fight scenes. Yes, those are stereotyped. But that's what makes him so entertaining. People love him because of his unique 'style'. SI Industry has a certain uniqueness which is different from Bollywood. On an average, their film songs have faster cuts, more camera movements, large scale dance items, and not to forget - A hero with black sunglasses. These aspects don't 'stereotype' the industry, they're the ones that make it endearing.

Infact, by saying that Tollywood has softer songs, you're consequently demeaning the signifiance of loud music in the SI industry. Do you mean to say that they're a 'bad' part about the Industry? That the Industry is not just about these 'silly' things?

Edited by scratches-head - 16 years ago

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akanna

@akanna

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 16 years ago

#95

@scratches-head -- you have completely missed my points and gave different meanings to my words altogether! I have explained what I felt about the act in my earlier posts here - see those ones and maybe you will understand where I stand. It's not about the liveliness or fast paced dance moves - please get that clear. Some of your points, especially saying that the hero with black sunglasses - that's a false image about SI industry!! There are only a couple of heroes like that, and that couple do not make the majority of the heroes there.

Tolltwood acts have been shown in DID before too. Last season, he had Rakhee-Prince-Mangesh act, then there was an act with Rakhee and Paulson in the finale, then Meenu did one solo, and so on. I also think Geeta did some acts last season with her dancers. Anyway, as I have said before, I can accept it as pure ignorance and rest the case, which I what I am going to do. Only people from the South will understand what I am talking about because they have proper exposure to the culture, tradition and the film industry there.

And one more thing - Bollywood has been stoned by their own folks (i.e. by Bollywood folks), not by people from the South. We hold respect for Bollywood too, the same way we respect our own film industry. Hence the difference. And where did I say that Tollywood has softer songs?? We have all kinds of songs, as we have some of the best music directors and singers in India and even in the world.

Edited by akanna - 16 years ago

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Aparajita

@yikes

Explorer

Posted: 16 years ago

#96

Originally posted by: akanna
@scratches-head -- you have completely missed my points and gave different meanings to my words altogether! I have explained what I felt about the act in my earlier posts here - see those ones and maybe you will understand where I stand. It's not about the liveliness or fast paced dance moves - please get that clear. Some of your points, especially saying that the hero with black sunglasses - that's a false image about SI industry!! There are only a couple of heroes like that, and that couple do not make the majority of the heroes there.

Tolltwood acts have been shown in DID before too. Last season, he had Rakhee-Prince-Mangesh act, then there was an act with Rakhee and Paulson in the finale, then Meenu did one solo, and so on. I also think Geeta did some acts last season with her dancers. Anyway, as I have said before, I can accept it as pure ignorance and rest the case, which I what I am going to do. Only people from the South will understand what I am talking about because we have proper exposure to the culture, tradition and the film industry there than those who speculate something else based on one or two videos on YT.

And one more thing - Bollywood has been stoned by their own folks, not by people from the South. We hold respect for Bollywood too, the same way we respect our own film industry. Hence the difference. And where did I say that Tollywood has softer songs?? We have all kinds of songs, as we have some of the best music directors and singers in India and even in the world.

Okay, let me get this clear then. You claimed that the dance performed by Amrita and Kishore was stereotyping the Tollywood Industry as not all songs are like that, right? Am I wrong? Or have I missed the premise of your arguement?

Now, going by the assumption that I did get your point, I'm going to flip the discussion and ask you a question instead - What kind of dance do you think it should have been to depict the SI Industry properly? Further, what kind of dance do you think it should have been to not stereotype the Industry?

However, you do agree that vibrant colours and OTT items are one of the aspect of the Industry? If you do, then I think it's a well known fact that it is the most visible and surfaced expression of the SI Industry. Yes, there are finer details. But the inclusion of those details or the lack thereof doesn't imply any stereotyping.

No matter who stoned Bollywood, the fact of the matter is that even Bollywood is stereotyped to a large extent. Whether it was their 'own' (as you put it) folks who did it or someone else. As far as respect is concerned, then I think Bollywood has immense respect for the Tollywood Industry too. What makes you think it doesn't? And what makes you think the SI Industry doesn't ridicule Bollywood? Infact, this discussion actually reminds me of a south Indian song that I watched few days back which had the hero mocking SRK as in KKHH.

Okay, so now it is a North India vs South India debate? The South Indian people consequently understand South Indian culture better because that's where they hail from? Kind of contradicts the fact that 90% of the foriegners know more about Indian than Indians themselves, doesn't it? I'm not speculating anything, I'm just replying to your claim that the dance was stereotyping the SI Industry. DID is an International show, obviously, it cannot entail all aspects of all cultures. Salsa has much more finer aspects than what is generally shown. Kathak has various forms, Hip Hop has gazillion and gazillions of forms, Contemporary is so much more than what DID depicts. Yet we don't attach the 'stereotyping' tag to them because we don't hail from Europe? US? Because we don't know whether Salsa/Tango/Hip Hop is just about those few dances or not?

The point is that the most visible aspect is captured in all the International shows. Heroes wearing black glasses doesn't constitute all of the SI Industry. I know that. But I like the fact that some of them do. I find that style very hatke. What's wrong with potraying something that's on the surface?

You didn't get my point either. By claiming that the SI Industry is not just about what Geeta showed in her performance, your subtracting the value of that aspect of the SI industry. It does happen there, and it actually is it's USP. People get attracted to Tollywood because of that, they don't scowl at this uniqueness. 'Stereotype' as a word implies negative consequences in general, but quite surprisingly, I can hardly see the negative consequence here.

The black glasses need to be thanked for giving Tollywood the exposure it deserved.

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Kasturilover

@Kasturilover

Inactive

Posted: 16 years ago

#97

Originally posted by: akanna
@scratches-head -- you have completely missed my points and gave different meanings to my words altogether! I have explained what I felt about the act in my earlier posts here - see those ones and maybe you will understand where I stand. It's not about the liveliness or fast paced dance moves - please get that clear. Some of your points, especially saying that the hero with black sunglasses - that's a false image about SI industry!! There are only a couple of heroes like that, and that couple do not make the majority of the heroes there.

Tolltwood acts have been shown in DID before too. Last season, he had Rakhee-Prince-Mangesh act, then there was an act with Rakhee and Paulson in the finale, then Meenu did one solo, and so on. I also think Geeta did some acts last season with her dancers. Anyway, as I have said before, I can accept it as pure ignorance and rest the case, which I what I am going to do. Only people from the South will understand what I am talking about because we have proper exposure to the culture, tradition and the film industry there than those who speculate something else based on one or two videos on YT.

And one more thing - Bollywood has been stoned by their own folks, not by people from the South. We hold respect for Bollywood too, the same way we respect our own film industry. Hence the difference. And where did I say that Tollywood has softer songs?? We have all kinds of songs, as we have some of the best music directors and singers in India and even in the world.

Hi Akanna,

We have never interacted before, but I have read your posts and quite like them😊, especially the informative ones like the one you posted on the paso doble dance form.😳

However, I wish to give a feedback that as an Indian, I felt the parts highlighted in bold were unfair and high handed,.... frankly even bordering on cultural intolerance and racism.

Please allow me to explain and hope you dont think this is a sermon but appreciate that I am just highlighting the perception your post is letting out😊

What is the first visual image that comes to mind when one says 'India'?

Is it just the Taj Mahal........no of course not, India is not just about that. It is also the beaches of Goa, the temples of Puri and Somnath, the backwaters of Kerala, the peaks of Himalayas, the gushing waters of the Ganges, the breathtaking sand-dunes of Rajasthan.......I could go on.

But, in popular perception when we mention the words 'India', to a foreigner (and I interact with quite a lot of them).......the sentiment expressed by them is often .....Have you seen the Taj Mahal or I wish I can go see the Taj Mahal.

That does not mean the rest of India is trivial? NO of course not!😊

It just means that the Taj Mahal is one of the arguably visible postcard images of India in popular perception.

Now coming to food.......

What is the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of the following cuoisines:

Punjabi cuisine - is it Choley Bhature and Paranthe........No..coz one may say come on North Indian cuisine is much more than this

or the Gujarati cuisine - is it just Thepla and Khakra ........of course not

or the Bengali cuisine - is it just Macher hJhol and Rosogulla ........never

or South Indian cuisine...is it just Idli-Dosa..........of course not.

But you and me cannot deny that in popular perception, the examples mentioned above are the ones that first comes to mind when these cuisines are discussed.😳

Now to Bollywood.

Is Indian cinema only about Bollywood.......Of course not. In fact one of the truly enjoyable films of 2009 is a Marathi film called Harishchandrachi Factory (it was our Oscar nomination)😳

But when you go outside India and chances are when you say "Indian films" they will first of all think of Bollywood.

Again popular perception, isnt it.😊

I think this is the point "scratches-head" was trying to highlight. That what Amrita and Kishore did was what they thought was popular perception. Of course no one is denying that there is much more to Tamil Films than than...........and there indeed is😳

Now coming to your comment on Bollywood been stoned by their own folks.😭

Who are these own folks? Do you mean these folks are the North Indians. Are North Indians not the folks of other Indians?

Are most of us not Indian?

So then are South Indians 'other' folks.

Are we just a divided, racist populace having no regard for our identity as Indians first, and then the ethnicity?😭

If yes, then why are we watching a primarily North Indian Bollywood songs themed programme that is in Hindi language (which is also the National Language of India)?

That sounded bad right😳

Well that is how bad your statement came accross when I read it........it just threw anyone who is not a South Indian in the basket of 'others'.😳

Thanks and again, and please understand the context and if I have hurt you, then I am deeply sorry.😳

Edited by Kasturilover - 16 years ago

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Aparajita

@yikes

Explorer

Posted: 16 years ago

#98

Originally posted by: Kasturilover

Well that is how bad your statement came accross when I read it........it just threw anyone who is not a South Indian in the basket of 'others'.😳

Word. I don't think I could have said it any better myself. Why are non-South Indian 'others' ? It's rather derogatory actually, to label someone who doesn't hail from South India as an outsider. Now isn't that stereotyping? Assuming that the people who don't hail from South India wouldn't know anything about it's culture?

I agree with the rest of your post aswell. You pretty much summed up what I was trying to say :)

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akanna

@akanna

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 16 years ago

#99

@Kasturilover - Sorry if my comments came across in a wrong way. I was trying to explain something, and I didnt think my words could be twisted in another manner. When I said "by their own folks", I meant the people in Bollywood itself. What I was trying to say was that the SI film industry holds a lot of respect for Bollywood and as you can see all the big names in South like to work in Bollywood. It also made Bollywood achieve even better recognition in the South.

The difference of South came up because the discussion came up about the SI film songs and the SI film industry. And I want to add one more thing to clear the geographical perception - I have always been told and learned that Mumbai belongs to West India... Correct me if I am wrong! So I dont understand why Bollywood is considered as belonging to the North? Even if we look at the names there, they come from all over India, not just from the North or West or East or South alone..

Anyway I am sorry if I came across as rude or harsh. I didnt mean to. 😊

Edited by akanna - 16 years ago

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Kasturilover

@Kasturilover

Inactive

Posted: 16 years ago

#100

@scratches-head

Thanks :)), your views are refreshing and articulate 👍🏼 I will watch out for you :))

I have fairly travelled outside of India and for that matter even in India. As people its difficult to not have perceptions and notions, so I totally got your point.

@Akanna

I appreciate that you took my comments well. 👏That was very gracious and generous of you. 👏 Its great to know that there are people in IF who can take a genuine feedback in their stride. I understand the point better now that you explained it. :))

You made an interesting observation on Bollywood. Yes it is in Mumbai which is located in the West of India. Perhaps people have the perception that its a North Indian film industry given that its medium is Hindi (though interestingly not the "pure" or "khadi boli" Hindi as spoken in the North but tilting towards the Mumbai Hindi).

Well glad to have met both of you scratches-head and Akanna and hope we have something good to look for this weekend

Cheers 👍🏼