Is Kajol overrated? - Page 10

Originally posted by: sharaban

Seems like you have not read my post carefully, about intentions and the need of change of stances with new avatars about a certain actor, also the psyche of projection.

Previous avatar was anti srk, this one is pro srk for the public eye wash, but even a small kid can make out with the writeups, who is who.

(and its not me, few members PMd me with pertinent undeniable proofs, and also with IPs and later a vpn, there r few good tech' gurus here).

And about ID...lol....the person is even a hater of one exists in his ID, as posted himself many times against Rani with this account. That's where such people hunts, naive unaware members. Some genuine Srk fans r becoming fools and falling for this person who was a pure srk hater as Atominis, and I am 100℅ sure he was not genuinely even a hater of Srk, as I said the motive is just to kill the ample time in hand and to play with the minds & emotions of the unaware members to satisfy a certain psychotic appetite.

A normal, healthy and productive mind cannot possibly have that much time in hand to spend so many hours everyday to write such longggg posts with half baked info, and to basically spend 2/4th of the day at a certain website, regularly everyday.

Rest is upto anyone whoever wants to believe or not to believe, it is their call, never wanted to bring this up but at times people test your patience limits, with the tactic of projection.

Anyways I am out of this mess, never wanted to bring this up, just wanted to be a whistle blower for you and others. Baaki jis nay jo samajhna hai samjhay, aur nahi samajhna, naa samjhay.

--------------------------

This one from whatever little I read appears to be SRK fan or Rani/Preity/Aish fan. I am not sure will get to know in my few days stay here.

This is my last quote to your reply. I have replied in 4 fragments as you are literally dragging this discussions with some trivial stuff.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

If Aamir was that successful, he'd have made it on this cover of the most powerful people in the industry in 2007. Kajol, having only made one movie in the last 6 years, has enough popularity and clout to be ranked in the second row, just below the biggest stars.

Anyone who knws 90s knws it pretty well that Aamir had banned media and magazines for a decade 1998-2008. I don't remember seeing any filmfare covers of his during that time.

It's a no brainer for any person from that era that any powerlist in 2007 would have Aamir as one of the top celebs after the sort of success her had in 2006. I mean apply some sense and look at the name and see why he is not even there in such list when it features almost anyone out there.

Aamir and Filmfare's history is well known. I have not seen his movie clips from his production while announcing nominations like they do for others from whatever little I have seen of them. I am not an ardent follower of awards but I do know what happens there.

Aamir had sued Filmfare in 2006 for using his pic in their cover of their magazine and award promotion.

Aamir Khan sues Filmfare for Rs.21 crore

Filmfare had stopped from using his pic in any of the edition till 2008.

I have divided your essay into fragments and have replied to you with detail. I tried to avoid writing in one quote because it would become a very long essay.

Originally posted by: Rangaaa

You are taking stuff out of context. The whole comparison were of those movies starring Aamir,SRK and Kajol not distributed by YRF overseas in the same year was to highlight Lagaan was gamechanger for Aamir in overseas market. Where did I mention Lagaan was BB overseas?

Aamir was the only known star among the cast and first movie as a producer, not known director. Lagaan was neither a romantic drama nor a family saga. It was diff to the norm. Movies that worked well or blockbusters in overseas market those days were predominantly romantic and family dramas(even India),anybody familiar with 90s-2000s hindi cinema would tell you that.

It was you who mentioned Kajol had more star power than Aamir when Fanaa came out but the facts that MP and RDB had record opening and weekends prove it wrong.

Then you mentioned Kajol gave Aamir his 1st BB overseas which again was not the case because he had RDB before that. Aamir was the only star in RDB which was not distributed by YRF overseas.

It was Kajol who had not delivered a BB without depending on other star and YRF distribution before Fanaa. She didn't even have a 2M grossing movie in overseas without YRF and SRK. Kajol is one of the reasons and not the reason for Fanaa's blockbuster success in overseas.

You have ignored YRF distribution network.

Lol it was me who gave you the facts and figs of 2006 BO, go and check RDB did more than $5mill while Fanaa did $7mill.

2006 was seen as the best year for hindi cinema because hindi movies were not jut diverse but they did well in India and overseas.

No, you didn't mention Lagaan was a bb overseas but my point was that Box Office India itself said that the media hyped up Lagaan's presence overseas when really it didn't do nearly as well as it was made out to be. It didn't come close to the buzz Devdas had abroad with SRK and Aish's global campaign, Aishwarya Rai awarding SRK and Bhansali, the Cannes presence, etc. I agree with you though that it's impressive Lagaan was able to have a release overseas with the scope it had considering it was not YRF distributed.

One bit of credit I'll give Aamir is that in fact it was his QSQT which helped bring the trend back to musical romances from the violence and gore of the 80s. However, Aamir could not keep up his streak as a romantic hero past the 90s and I'm sure his offscreen philandering did not help, even if he took care to clean up his image and make sure it didn't leak to the press.

I haven't seen RDB characterized as an overseas bb though. It made a little more than $5 million abroad where Fanaa made $7 million abroad. Could RDB being Aamir's comeback film after the colossal disaster that was MP have helped favor Fanaa at the box office, yes, that's possible. But I still think the fact that Kajol was the lead actress is what boosted Fanaa overseas that extra $2 million that RDB didn't get. Yes, Fanaa was more of a commercial film and had romance and music in a way that RDB didn't have, but plenty of other YRF films have similar content. Bunty aur Babli and Hum Tum but they didn't become global bbs. For that matter, even Aamir's Dil Chahta Hai would be closer in tone to these films than RDB. That implies that what Fanaa has that all of these movies didn't have was Kajol. Fanaa was pegged as Kajol's comeback film, her first since K3G. I remember there was tons of hype in the media about that since she had a 5 year sabbatical. If RDB was Aamir's comeback film, then Fanaa was hers.

Female stars have rarely ever had the box office clout to headline films themselves, especially on a global level overseas. Madhuri did it with HAHK but her DTPH and Devdas relied as much on SRK after that. In fact, Aish has the best record of giving overseas bbs without a Khan since she has Taal, Mohabbatein, Devdas, Dhoom 2, Jodhaa Akbar, and Robot. Only 2/6 of those movies are with SRK. 2/6 are with Hrithik but also notice that he doesn't have any global blockbusters except for these two with Aish so she boosted him overseas. So yes, Kajol's bbs overseas have mainly relied on SRK but as I said before, he's had plenty of movies that were not as huge. The difference is those movies didn't have Kajol and she's interchangeable with him overseas. The first name you'll think of after his. Dilwale which didn't do well in India was still an overwhelming success overseas just because of the SRK/Kajol jodi. So clearly she is bringing something to the table because substitute her with another actress in that film and Dilwale wasn't going to do nearly as well overseas.

I say I give credit to the actors who work well with big banners and continuously give them hits, compared to those who claim to be beyond all that and are notorious in the industry for being hard to work with. Farah Khan had choice words about Aamir. You can see this in his films too that he hire actresses he has no fear of overshadowing him in flowerpot roles (after his 90s streak of being overshadowed by Madhuri, Urmila, Karishma, etc.). Hence why Kajol flat out refused 3 Idiots because she knew her role was not as good as his and she has no reason to compromise. No actress has ever turned down a SRK movie citing that the female lead was not strong enough because he always gives his actresses roles equal to his.

Yes, I cited those numbers here as well and clearly BOI feels that RDB at $5 million overseas is not a blockbuster whereas Fanaa at $7 million overseas is. Both had similar budgets. Fanaa is cited as having a budget of $300 million. I'm getting conflicted sources for RDB with some sources citing $250 million and others saying $350 million. Regardless, even assuming they have the same budget, Fanaa made more money and was thus more successful.

I agree, 2006 was a good year overall. A recovery from 2002 (although I think the movies made that year were not so bad even if most didn't work at the box office).

Kajol is very very overrated! She is a below average actress with no looks and glamour to boot

Originally posted by: Rangaaa

I am replying your long comment in fragments. I find it tedious to reply in long essays.

I am very well versed with 90s and 2000s as I have lived through that era. I know Gadar was a hysteria in India where people drove in trucks in some places to watch it. I know iconic clash between Lagaan and Gadar. I know K3G's overseas success. I am also well versed with BO of all those years reported in by many except for some recent movies.

RDB's influence as how months after it's release, it became a movement in Jessica Lal Murder case. Fanaa was Kajol's comeback movie.

I know tids bits of many of the movies came into the making, yellow page journalism and hindi film industry's fight against it in the early 90s, yellow page journalism still existed after that. I know how a film Fire created ruckus and led to boycott movement. Dilip Kumar stood for the film. I know Filmfare politics ,Yrf politics and their monopoly. I know how Shiv Sena covered Kareena's bare posters of Kurban and protested against it.

I know how Sanjay Dutt's mullet haircut was a trendsetter in early 90's sported by Khans,Ajay,Akki and many 90s actors. Sri's chiffon sarees, Aamir's Captain Caps , Madhuri's purple saree,many Indian spitz dog species named as Tuffy ,Kajol's green lehenga, SRK's GAP T-shirt, Kajol's tomboy cut, Aamir's goatee and spiked hairstyle, Salman's Tere Naam hairstyle, Rani's kurtas, Aamir's Ghajini haircut, Salman's bracelet,Salman's scarf etc.

I know who was offered which movie from 80's to 2010's and who was removed from which film. Even either of the Khans were offered movies which either of an individual or others have done. So it doesn't matter

I can write essays after essays on each of the topics but I refrain from doing so though I have written one here. All I am saying is we used to discuss these almost more than decade ago and for many years and many old members know it too.Many of them have left this place.

So don't take me for a mug.

All my points in previous replies to you have been restricted to Aamir,Kajol and Fanaa.

And for all this, I congratulate you heartily. I don't know what else to say to this beyond that.

While we're on the tangent of discussing RDB, I'll just say that while it's a good film, Aamir is miscast. His ego got the better of him into making him think he could play off a young teen character at his age. He thought with a more youthful hairstyle he could pull this role off but the fact of the matter is that even with the hair, his face looked too aged to pull off a young guy in his 20s. SRK is younger than Aamir by a year but even he knew a few years back that he could not pull off playing a college student in Main Hoon Na, where the joke is that everyone thinks he's a teacher or uncle. Aamir should have followed his example gracefully because I can never buy him in the role.

Originally posted by: Rangaaa

I am an old member and my username is based on one of popular and my fav char. I have been off this forum for a long time so I don't knw wht's going on. I just changed my username before posting here. It's a festive season and I am wasting my time and energy here for a few days.

I don't knw wht's your problem. It's an open discussion forum and I just quoted you that's it, that's not harassing. Do you think I am a fool to make an id of the same name if my intent was to harass you or whatever? And AFAIR another user can't have same usernames. I could report you for accusing me of another id but I won't as I feel there must be some misunderstanding.

If someone has harassed you then you can report him/her to Vijay. Whatever issues you have got deal it with Vijay.

I hope there is transparency regarding this matter with Vijay, you and me.

Very well, I'm sorry for making the accusation. A few days ago, there was a lot of troll activity and one account in particular had a similar name as yours, Rangaa but maybe not as many a's. I didn't take screenshots. This user must have been a troll because they only posted to attack my posts and after a day or two, this user's posts were all removed.

When I saw your post here, I assumed you were the same person but from your main account. However, having read your actual posts, I appreciate the sincerity behind your thoughts and the fact that you've taken the time to actually respond to my "essays," whereas other users only gripe about them but don't bother to actually respond. So I don't believe you could be that user after all.

Since I've joined IF a few years back, I've been accused by some users of being so many notorious old users from the past. Because I don't have SRK in my profile pic or name, there were a user who hated SRK who felt comfortable with me at first because they didn't realize I was his fan. It didn't take long for them to realize otherwise and of course, I became a target of their trolling. But at the same time, you can see that some people accuse me of being a fake SRK fan. I don't really care since I have nothing to prove or disprove. Everyone is welcome to think what they'd like.

I'm only wary about trolls because that user who hated SRK befriended me under a false misconception and would post the most disgusting stuff about a variety of actors I do like (Deepika, Ranveer, Katrina, and of course SRK). When I broke off this "friendship," this user begged me not to betray their trolling techniques to the forum but I wasn't covering up for their obvious slander anymore so I got attacked. And since Aishwarya is a favorite of mine, she's become a frequent target of abuse as you can see by the 50 or so threads from the last few months referring to her as Bahurani in the thread title. Why, even Shilpa Shetty, who early on I made clear I was quite a fan of, was attacked for a little bit by said user until they realized nobody cared enough about Shilpa to comment in those anti-Shilpa threads so it wasn't worth the effort on their part to troll her.

As for the identity of this troll, I honestly couldn't say. I have my own theories but multiple people have tried to name this troll as some big bad who has long haunted these forums so I really don't know except what people tell me. I'm telling you this, not because I want sympathy, but only to explain why I'm wary now of sudden hostility from new accounts or accounts I haven't had any interaction with. And I know I'm not the only target of this user because I've seen the disgusting language posted about me used on other users as well and they were equally as helpless since even reporting this behavior to the mods didn't work. Many have left this forum and I left for several months too after I saw one such user cry for help and their thread was locked.

Originally posted by: Rangaaa

Atonimis was neutral but more of a Madhuri fan. I have seen her praise and criticize all three Khans,even female stars. There were lots of facts, she even mentioned rumors and she was somewhat clear about it.

This one from whatever little I read appears to be SRK fan or Rani/Preity/Aish fan. I am not sure will get to know in my few days stay here.

Interesting. Thank you for sharing because that would explain a great deal.

Originally posted by: Rangaaa

This is my last quote to your reply. I have replied in 4 fragments as you are literally dragging this discussions with some trivial stuff.

I have kept the best for the last because I don't know what to make out of it. This reminisces of childish Khan fan wars in this forum. Look my fav is bigger because he is at the start or he is centre of attraction because he is at the centre or he is show stopper/appears at the end.

Anyone who knws 90s knws it pretty well that Aamir had banned media and magazines for a decade 1998-2008. I don't remember seeing any filmfare covers of his during that time.

It's a no brainer for any person from that era that any powerlist in 2007 would have Aamir as one of the top celebs after the sort of success her had in 2006. I mean apply some sense and look at the name and see why he is not even there in such list when it features almost anyone out there.

Aamir and Filmfare's history is well known. I have not seen his movie clips from his production while announcing nominations like they do for others from whatever little I have seen of them. I am not an ardent follower of awards but I do know what happens there.

Aamir had sued Filmfare in 2006 for using his pic in their cover of their magazine and award promotion.

Aamir Khan sues Filmfare for Rs.21 crore

Filmfare had stopped from using his pic in any of the edition till 2008.

I'm well aware of Aamir's feud with Filmfare. He seems to get as much publicity from his boycott of Filmfare, if not more than he would actually get from Filmfare itself.

I see this all as his own publicity and trying to market himself as being beyond awards and attention. When everyone who knows him can tell you otherwise. His boycott of Filmfare began because he was angry he wasn't winning the awards and lost out on Rangeela. Virtually everyone can see Aamir would be front and center of every Filmfare event if he had gotten that one award, but actually I take that back. Whatever next year he felt he was snubbed, then all goodwill he had would be gone and he'd go back to claiming awards are fake and mean nothing to him. In my experience, the people who shout the loudest about this are usually the ones who care most.

Take Katharine Hepburn. She has the most Oscars out of any actor or actress. Was notorious for never attending the Oscars despite her 12 nominations and 4 wins. People assume from that that this means she didn't care for awards or a star image. WRONG. From childhood, her dream was being famous and a star. She became known as a real actress after some decades but her real interest was always fame. Her refusal to attend the Oscars wasn't because she didn't care but because she cared too much. Losing publicly would be too much to bear, so she never bothered to attend. In fact, even she campaigned for the one and only time in her life when she was nominated for Long Day's Journey Into Night. Never again after that when she lost even though her next three nominations would all be her next three wins.

This is the same woman who kept a TV in her house that was unplugged and the wire wrapped around the TV. Her reason of doing this was so that when she had guests, she could boast about how she doesn't watch TV but reads instead. A normal person who doesn't care about TV just wouldn't keep one in the house, but she needed to make it a show of status. I see Aamir as someone very similar with the way he makes such a big deal out of his disdain for awards when his whole issue with Filmfare in the first place is not being awarded when he wanted one.

And this is very common in showbiz in general. Barbra Streisand already had one Oscar but when she was desperate for a second one, for The Way We Were, she was hiding behind the curtains. If her name was announced as the winner, she could walk out and proudly claim her award but if she lost (which is what happened), she could hide her crestfallen reaction from the TV broadcast.

Going back to Aamir, I see his ban from Filmfare covers to be propping up his ego. He knows he'll never be as featured on Filmfare's magazine covers as SRK. That will kill him so as the sore loser he is, he takes himself out of the game. Now his image won't be on the covers but he can proudly claim that the reason for this is because HE chose it that way. Not anybody else. He doesn't have to worry about living in a world where he's overshadowed by other stars on the covers because he made sure that if he's not featured at all, there's no danger of his being undercut. He can claim his usual nonsense about being above all this, when really all he wants is to be on top and if he can't have that, he'll have to change the narrative to cover up his deficiencies.

I feel it's very karmic that he used to refuse to work with SRK, on films like Josh, or do a cameo for him in OSO. But when he had one massive failure with Thugs of Hindustan and was desperate to ensure he had a comeback with Lal Singh Chaddha, he begged SRK to make a cameo for him. This would normally have been something he could never bring himself to do but he was so desperate here, that he made an exception and swallowed his pride to request SRK. Even that flopped and now his tune has changed again and he admits that he would be open to doing a movie with SRK and Salman and he feels it's time. Same guy who wouldn't let Farah Khan film a shot of all three Khans together onscreen for the first time, but now his starpower has fallen so low and he's so legitimately concerned about his career, that he will break even this principle to leech off of the stardom of SRK and Salman to prop up his own.

So going back to the cover, if Aamir's not on that cover at all, it's very easy for him to explain that he doesn't show up on Filmfare covers, that's why he's not included. The truth of the matter is that if he was honest about his placement, he wouldn't rank all that high and to hide that, he keeps himself off the cover completely.

Each to their one. I'm one of those who likes to read RPA's comments...they show a lot of experience in observing people and analysing their (most probable) motivations. Yes, in this forum, long writings aren't well accepted...personally, it's not the length that bothers me when members write something...I'm more looking for the content which could be interesting in one line but also in more than 50 lines.

No, I don't think that RPA is former Atominis...her approach to write about actors and actresses is different.

That said and coming back to the topic title: No, imo Kajol isn't overrated but had always been rated according to her screen presence which - mostly - perceptibly contributed to the success of a movie.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

Interesting. Thank you for sharing because that would explain a great deal.

I'm well aware of Aamir's feud with Filmfare. He seems to get as much publicity from his boycott of Filmfare, if not more than he would actually get from Filmfare itself.

I see this all as his own publicity and trying to market himself as being beyond awards and attention. When everyone who knows him can tell you otherwise. His boycott of Filmfare began because he was angry he wasn't winning the awards and lost out on Rangeela. Virtually everyone can see Aamir would be front and center of every Filmfare event if he had gotten that one award, but actually I take that back. Whatever next year he felt he was snubbed, then all goodwill he had would be gone and he'd go back to claiming awards are fake and mean nothing to him. In my experience, the people who shout the loudest about this are usually the ones who care most.

Take Katharine Hepburn. She has the most Oscars out of any actor or actress. Was notorious for never attending the Oscars despite her 12 nominations and 4 wins. People assume from that that this means she didn't care for awards or a star image. WRONG. From childhood, her dream was being famous and a star. She became known as a real actress after some decades but her real interest was always fame. Her refusal to attend the Oscars wasn't because she didn't care but because she cared too much. Losing publicly would be too much to bear, so she never bothered to attend. In fact, even she campaigned for the one and only time in her life when she was nominated for Long Day's Journey Into Night. Never again after that when she lost even though her next three nominations would all be her next three wins.

This is the same woman who kept a TV in her house that was unplugged and the wire wrapped around the TV. Her reason of doing this was so that when she had guests, she could boast about how she doesn't watch TV but reads instead. A normal person who doesn't care about TV just wouldn't keep one in the house, but she needed to make it a show of status. I see Aamir as someone very similar with the way he makes such a big deal out of his disdain for awards when his whole issue with Filmfare in the first place is not being awarded when he wanted one.

And this is very common in showbiz in general. Barbra Streisand already had one Oscar but when she was desperate for a second one, for The Way We Were, she was hiding behind the curtains. If her name was announced as the winner, she could walk out and proudly claim her award but if she lost (which is what happened), she could hide her crestfallen reaction from the TV broadcast.

Going back to Aamir, I see his ban from Filmfare covers to be propping up his ego. He knows he'll never be as featured on Filmfare's magazine covers as SRK. That will kill him so as the sore loser he is, he takes himself out of the game. Now his image won't be on the covers but he can proudly claim that the reason for this is because HE chose it that way. Not anybody else. He doesn't have to worry about living in a world where he's overshadowed by other stars on the covers because he made sure that if he's not featured at all, there's no danger of his being undercut. He can claim his usual nonsense about being above all this, when really all he wants is to be on top and if he can't have that, he'll have to change the narrative to cover up his deficiencies.

I feel it's very karmic that he used to refuse to work with SRK, on films like Josh, or do a cameo for him in OSO. But when he had one massive failure with Thugs of Hindustan and was desperate to ensure he had a comeback with Lal Singh Chaddha, he begged SRK to make a cameo for him. This would normally have been something he could never bring himself to do but he was so desperate here, that he made an exception and swallowed his pride to request SRK. Even that flopped and now his tune has changed again and he admits that he would be open to doing a movie with SRK and Salman and he feels it's time. Same guy who wouldn't let Farah Khan film a shot of all three Khans together onscreen for the first time, but now his starpower has fallen so low and he's so legitimately concerned about his career, that he will break even this principle to leech off of the stardom of SRK and Salman to prop up his own.

So going back to the cover, if Aamir's not on that cover at all, it's very easy for him to explain that he doesn't show up on Filmfare covers, that's why he's not included. The truth of the matter is that if he was honest about his placement, he wouldn't rank all that high and to hide that, he keeps himself off the cover completely.

Originally posted by: Clochette

Each to their one. I'm one of those who likes to read RPA's comments...they show a lot of experience in observing people and analysing their (most probable) motivations. Yes, in this forum, long writings aren't well accepted...personally, it's not the length that bothers me when members write something...I'm more looking for the content which could be interesting in one line but also in more than 50 lines.

No, I don't think that RPA is former Atominis...her approach to write about actors and actresses is different.

That said and coming back to the topic title: No, imo Kajol isn't overrated but had always been rated according to her screen presence which - mostly - perceptibly contributed to the success of a movie.