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Written by Elsass:
In this prayer God is seen as a punisher, consequently people also act as punishers and have always waged wars.
The badly translated piece is "because by sinning I deserved your punishment"
God does not punish otherwise it would be like evil, only evil punishes, the devil.
[hr]
Written by Giò:
If Tom steals something from Dick, do you think Tom should be punished for having committed a theft against Dick in a proportionate way?
If your answer is yes, then you should easily understand that chastising someone - that is, punishing them - is not necessarily a moral evil, but it can be good.
I say "may be" and not "is" a good thing because there can be unjust punishments: for example, a punishment is unjust when someone is punished for an act he did not commit or when someone is punished for an act he committed, but disproportionately.
This is what, unfortunately, happens in human affairs. This does not mean that no person of common sense would ever dare to deny that, despite errors or injustices, it is still necessary for every state to have a police force responsible for protecting public order, a judicial system which, faced with an accusation or a criminally relevant fact, check whether a person is guilty or not and a prison system. In the case of God, we know not only that he is good and just, but that he is quintessential goodness and justice themselves. It is infinite goodness and infinite justice. Therefore, no unjust punishment or punishment that is not, in some way, for a good purpose can come from God. This is all the more true if we take into account that mercy is infinite: if He who is infinite mercy inflicts a momentary punishment, it is precisely because it is deserved or because it is truly for a good purpose. If the One who is infinite mercy inflicts a permanent punishment, it is precisely because whoever received it refused to the last moment to receive his own mercy, repenting bitterly and sincerely of his own faults.
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What you write, dear @Giò, is very true. But, at a certain point, the Son of the Carpenter comes out with these words (1).
1) From my Sacred Reference Text:
You have heard that it was said: An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth; [39] but I tell you, do not oppose the wicked one; indeed, if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also to him; [40] and whoever wants to sue you to take your tunic, you must also leave your cloak. [41] And if anyone forces you to go a mile, go with him two. [42] he Gives to anyone who asks you and to anyone who wants a loan from you don't turn away. [43] You have heard that it was said: You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy; [44] but I tell you, love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, [45] that you may be children of your heavenly Father, who makes his sun rise on the wicked and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and upon the unjust. [46] For if you love those who love you, what merit do you have? Don't the tax collectors do the same? [47] And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing extraordinary? Don't the pagans do the same? [48] Therefore be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.
[hr]
But to you who hear I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; from anyone who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you; and whoever takes yours, do not ask for it. [31] What you want men to do to you, you also do to them. [32] If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. [33] And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same. [35] But love your enemies, do good and lend without expecting anything, and your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [36] Be merciful, as your Father is merciful. [37] Do not judge and you will not be judged; do not condemn and you will not be condemned; forgive and you will be forgiven; [38] give and it will be given to you; a good measure, pressed down, shaken and running over, will be poured into your lap, for with the measure you measure, it will be measured back to you.”
How is it possible to accept a world where things really go like this? Is it ever possible to let all the wicked do their own thing, and with complete impunity? The fact is that, often, the so-called evil ones, in turn, have suffered so many wrongs, often at a very young age, and often they have become so ferocious, precisely for a form of revenge. And we cannot know if, all that they have suffered previously, could constitute a form of extenuating circumstances, so numerous, and so great, as to even go so far as to annul the crime committed.
By way of example, go and re-read how in that famous book, the good Jean Valjean, he had arrived there, inside the cardinal's house, when he was about to steal his candelabrum. How the cardinal behaved. And how did the stubborn blind policeman who was chasing him behave. We are very limited beings. Establishing what is really right, and what is really wrong, is something that is beyond our reach. We must not judge, in order not to be judged. But also because, in order to judge, there is already someone who is waiting to do it. And his judgment is just. He's the only one who really is. Because he has always known everything about everyone. Worse than a Truman Show, applied to each of the more than 8 billion human beings we are, plus all those who have gone before us, that is, that they have already become fertilizer for the pear tree. And then, if there really is a Judge, and he is a judge capable of knowing both what we have done, and even what we have thought, it is not true that a villain would go unpunished. His punishment is only postponed until the day of the trial. That process, without delays, without stamps, prosecutors and lawyers, which will last only one day.
Ah, I also like the phrase of the prophet Jeremiah that you put on your signature. If you want someone to read everything he said, put the link to the full text in your signature. This below.
"Cursed is the man who trusts in man" (Jeremiah 17, 5)
Or, you have to stick this on your user panel:
[code][b][url=https://www.bible.com/it/bible/123/jer.17.5-8.nr94]"Maledetto l'uomo che confida nell'uomo" (Geremia 17, 5)[/url][/b][/code]
It is very important to remember that admonition. Because man, even the best of men, is just a bad copy of what God is. And it is only to God that we must look, to understand what is right to do. And to understand how he thinks, and what he wants from us, he has left us a whole series of 'megaphones', over several centuries, which have tuned in to his exact wavelength from time to time. Like the good Jeremiah, the good Isaiah, and the most prepared and knowledgeable of all, or the Son of the Carpenter. Who was instructed, vis a vis, face to face, directly by the one who made, from the first to the last molecule, the stars that you can see tonight. And at this point what do we do tonight? Well, other than watching the show, we're in a dimly lit place,
"You already know exactly what is right to do. It does everything that you had already decided to do since the dawn of time. But it does it even faster"
And therefore, if ti werre up to me, these days, as well as opening wide the borders upon the arrival of migrants, I would open from the first to the last cell of our homeland prisons.
The original post was here:
https://forum.termometropolitico.it/853248-preghiera-messa-atto-dolore-ce-istigazione-guerra-post21025359.html#post21025359
https://lazattera.forumcommunity.net/?t=62839333&st=45#entry462373483
https://politique.forum-actif.net/t37857p875-c-est-le-debut-de-la-fin#608794
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?t=85306&p=8747582&viewfull=1#post8747582
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/163839955
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?t=85431&p=8747585&viewfull=1#post8747585
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?t=85425&p=8747605&viewfull=1#post8747605
http://forum.russianamerica.com/f/showthread.php?t=85417&p=8747607&viewfull=1#post8747607
https://www.moonbbs.com/thread-4495347-1-1.html
https://forum.theislamicquotes.com/threads/%D9%87%D8%B0%D9%87-%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D9%87%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A9.470/post-859
https://repolitics.com/forums/topic/43845-this-is-the-beginning-of-the-end/
https://forum-politique.org/d/145668-cest-le-debut-de-la-fin
https://politikforen-hpf.net/showthread.php?194638-Dies-ist-der-Anfang-vom-Ende
https://vivaibidelli.forumattivo.com/t636-e-se-le-cose-cominciassero-a-precipitare#1726
https://forum.termometropolitico.it/824168-cose-cominciassero-precipitare-post19645828.html#post19645828
https://storiaepolitica.forumfree.it/?t=79578320#entry663904436
https://forum.fuoriditesta.it/il-confessionale/158713-e-se-le-cose-cominciassero-a-precipitare.html#post3512379
https://atei.forumattivo.com/t1833-il-super-boeing-747-di-hoyle#31846
https://www.forumpolitico.net/viewtopic.php?p=27595#p27595
https://www.forumbox.co.uk/forum/thread/49648-uk-debt-how-to-manage-it-can-the-rich-do-more/?postID=148068#post148068
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/pax-et-bonum-from-holubice.571201/
https://debatepolitics.com/threads/pax-et-bonum-from-holubice.395794/
https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=16514.15
https://www.forumbox.co.uk/forum/thread/49648-uk-debt-how-to-manage-it-can-the-rich-do-more/?postID=148068#post148068
https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/the-end-of-cash.363575/post-18276984
https://defendingthetruth.com/t/this-is-the-beginning-of-the-end.138912/post-1935753
https://www.foroparalelo.com/general/este-es-el-principio-del-fin-1149529-post22024947/#post22024947
Edited by Holubice - 8 months ago
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