Who has more of that elusive quality called charm? - Page 9

Originally posted by: Grumpydwarf24

It would say 18+ ! That is the age when doctors say a child has the capacity to vote and do other things. Because their brain has developed enough to know right or wrong! Thus at that age they would know what is best for them.

also they should be more of a specialty study for counselors who can identify whether it is really transgender issue or is it something else. I feel it is not studied enough. Many solutions start with education.

Some doctors think four year old can 💯 decide their gender and should be put on drugs.

This topic has taken a life of its own. It’s like inception within inception.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

@Grumpydwarf24, makeup classes would come under this category. Why can't a boy take makeup classes? Is it because he's trans or because society sets nonsense limits on what genders can do? It was society in my case. But what did I know at age 11?

Then there's the irresponsible talk about mental health in untreated trans individuals. Well, European nations are beginning to stop gender affirming surgery in children because of poor mental health outcomes. Why, if they're truly all trans? Shouldn't there be at least a small improvement?

Well considering this person told me at 25 that sex change was the best decision they ever made in their life. I would like to believe it was a trans issue. Yes, gender is a social construct by all means. So it can be an issue of society setting limits. There are great male makeup artist who are straight and consider themselves male. But this person always felt female from within. The bullying they endured would have happened in both cases. But it made it worse for them because they already felt trapped in the wrong body.

Originally posted by: Supari_khala

This topic has taken a life of its own. It’s like inception within inception.

I was wondering how they got here! 😆I was reading through the pages trying to figure it out. But I tried to join to adding in my thoughts in the most balanced way possible.

Originally posted by: LazyBiing

OMG!! 18 + is more than okay to transition because they are (almost) adults. I’m talking about young kids who are way too young for all of this.

Some doctors think four year old can 💯 decide their gender and should be put on drugs.

Agreed kids way too young probably do not know what is right for them. But like I said growing up trapped in the wrong body has its own challenges. Perhaps the parents can not see their child unhappy. It is tough. But if the transition is irreversible they should probably be adults and do counseling first.

Originally posted by: Grumpydwarf24

Well considering this person told me at 25 that sex change was the best decision they ever made in their life. I would like to believe it was a trans issue. Yes, gender is a social construct by all means. So it can me an issue of society setting limits. There are great male makeup artist who are straight and consider themselves male. But this person always felt a female from within. The bullying they endured what have happened in both cases. But it made it worse for them because they already felt trapped in the wrong body.

As an adult, take any decision you want.

But children cannot. Their brains aren't mature enough. Which is they cannot vote, get married, join the military, etc.

That one person you mentioned is an anecdote. Medicine has to necessarily function by data/statistics. Numbers prove doing hormone therapy and gender affirming surgery in minors is harmful.

There is a concept called Number Needed to Treat in medical statistics. How many do you need to treat to save one person?

The opposite of the concept is Number Needed to Kill. (It's actually how many do we need to treat to end up with a death)

But here it is how many do we kill to make that one person feel better? What's going on now is based on this concept.

Also, was he 25 when he transitioned? That makes a huge difference.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

As an adult, take any decision you want.

But children cannot. Their brains aren't mature enough. Which is they cannot vote, get married, join the military, etc.

That one person you mentioned is an anecdote. Medicine has to necessarily function by data/statistics. Numbers prove doing hormone therapy and gender affirming surgery in minors is harmful.

There is a concept called Number Needed to Treat in medical statistics. How many do you need to treat to save one person?

There's also the opposite of the concept. Number Needed to Kill.

How many will we kill/sacrifice to make that one person feel better?

What's going on now is based on NNK.

Also, was he 25 when he transitioned? That makes a huge difference.

I have already agreed numerous times that one should be an adult before one makes this decision. This person was an adult when they did. They just had horrifying memories of childhood. Interesting knowledge of medical statistics. But you are right. If this is causing harm to minors then it should be reconsidered. Maybe pass a law that certain surgeries can only be done at a certain age. But the LGBT campaign is very strong right now.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Also, was he 25 when he transitioned? That makes a huge difference.

I already agreed about needing to be an adult first. She was 20 when she transitioned.

The user is obviously taking potshots at trans people and their gender identification. Could not use those words for probable fear of being reported hence claiming kids identify as cat and school is forced to treat them thus.

Anyone can read between lines what is being hinted at.

@hearmeroar

I agree that it is not right to drag minors, kids into this. Or give them things like puberty blockers or hormone replacement therapy etc.

It is wrong.

However if one is an adult then one should have right to decide to choose for oneself and make a fully informed decision knowing the risks and also equally study stories of detransitioners as well and what issues they have, so that they know what they are getting into.

But let me be clear that a girl once wanting to be a boy but someone who is actually on LGBTQIA spectrum are different.

A lot of girls do wish to be boys because of way society and family treats them differently or when they suffer issues like dysmenorrhea and curse themselves for unique issues they suffer as females. But that is not same as someone being trans. And always feeling they were trapped in wrong body. Or boys feeling feminine or feeling trapped in wrong body.

We should distinguish between the two and when kid becomes an adult, then let them take their final call.

Also, I do not know how and who defines what is feminine or masculine. I mean if a boy likes to play with cooking set or dolls, or make up kits then does it mean he is feminine? If a girl is playing with action man figures or toy guns or war video games, does it make her masculine?

Most of gender constructs are stereotypes enforced through media and society and cultural conditioning anyway.

I would not even recommend others to rush and suspect that kid is trans just because they have interests that are not traditionally conforming to stereotypes about their gender.

I do think kid should be given ample time to explore and know themselves until they are adults. There should be no force or compulsion for minors.