Penny settled for Leonard

This topic will probably get moved, but I hope it stays. I am more active in this forum. Please don't move it. Be kind.

Some of my favorite shows of all time are Friends and Big Bang Theory. I can watch them over and over again and not get bored. And yes, I know many think they're overrated and have aged poorly. What can I do, they comfort me. A dose of my favorite sitcoms a day keeps the life stresses away.

Anyhoo, I never got invested in Leonard and Penny. In fact, I kind of dislike their relationship. It's flat, static, and boring. Ultimately, Penny settled for Leonard and I find that really sad. The popular/got girl and geeky/nerdy guy is a popular trope. It has been used over again in movies and shows. But perhaps the most popular one in pop culture is Rachel and Ross from Friends.

In Friends. Ross is a geeky paleontologist. He develops a crush on his sister's friend Rachel when they're in high school. But he's a nerd intimidated by her popularity. Even when they reconnect as adults he flounders awkwardly to make a move and Rachel starts dating Italian hunk Paolo. Eventually, Ross and Rachel do date, and then break up, and then date, and then break up, and then date again, and break up again, before finally getting back together in the series finale. In between, they get married, divorced, and even have a child together.

And while many people hate Ross as a toxic character, I swoon over the Ross and Rachel romance. I think the whole Ross hate is some new woke fashion, but that's a different can of worms. I can still remember when Friends was on air and the water cooler talk would always be Ross and Rachel.

Apparently, many felt the same way with Penny and Leonard in TBBT, but I never felt it one bit. Penny never seems to be into Leonard at all. The running gag of the entire series is that Leonard groveled and wore her down till she finally said yes - and it would be funny if it weren't painfully true. They have zero chemistry together. There are plenty of jokes alluding to the fact that their sex life is less than stellar as well.

The only reason Penny seems to date Leonard is because she wants stability which is lacking in her life. She has a history of dating hot jerks or dumb men. She is very insecure about her unsuccessful acting career and her lack of a college degree. Leonard on the other hand worships her and that helps her ego. The most telling is that besides Leonard, Penny does not have a single substantial relationship to gauge Leonard against. Her only significant relationship is with Zach Johnson who is dumb (but really big-hearted). Leonard too seems to see Penny more as a trophy than a girlfriend or wife. She's the hot girl he scored despite being a geek and he loves flaunting that.

Ross and Rachel on the other hand seem to have a genuine relationship. In the very first episode it is established that while Ross may be the one infatuated with Rachel, she is open to dating him. It is Ross who lacks the confidence to make the move and moves on because Rachel is out of his league. Rachel is the one who pursues him and causes him to break up with Julie. Rachel doesn't need Ross' validation. She is confident with who she is and even breaks up with him when he makes a list and deems her "just a waitress."

And while Friends does joke Ross was obsessed with Rachel, Rachel too does a lot of dumb things hung up over Ross - she is jealous of Bonnie and convinces her to shave her head again, proposes to Joshua when Ross is getting married to Emily, flies to London to stop the wedding, tells him she loves him when he's in the middle of a messy divorce, instigates a drunken wedding in Vegas, tries to hookup with Ross when Monica is engaged, comes onto Ross again right before the wedding and gets accidentally pregnant, demands that Ross stop dating when she is pregnant, seeks comfort sex with Ross when her father has a heart attack, and the hardest part for Rachel about leaving NYC is saying goodbye to Ross.

Most telling is the fact that throughout the series they both had substantial relationships that they were happy with. So when they end up with each other it's because of a meaningful connection and not some insecurity. Plus they both seemed satisfied with their sex life, unlike Leonard and Penny where it seemed Leonard got more out of it.

And Penny had the worst ending of all. After all the drama in their relationship about not wanting kids all of a sudden, she is OK with being pregnant in the finale. I know similarly, many people were mad that Rachel left a dream job for Ross. I thought it was a nice full circle. The series began with her running away from her dream wedding when she realizes that is not what she wants. She wants to discover herself. The series ends with her leaving her dream job because she realizes that's not what she wants. The past ten years have been discovering herself and figuring out that what she wants is with Ross. Its pretty apt unlike the random U-turn by Penny.

Most people will disagree with me on this, but I am a Shenny shipper. Sheldon and Penny had more chemistry and bonded way more than Leonard and Penny or Sheldon and Amy. But that is also a long opinion for another day.

I'm someone who tries to watch older shows with a perspective of what worked back then. I don't believe in the woke culture much, but that's my can of worms. However, I think my perspective of Ross changed as I got into a relationship and realized what a gaslighting turd he was.

Back when I watched Friends, I loved Ross and Rachael. They were the nerdy guy gets the hot girl trope - swoon. I was a kid then, going to my teens and what better does a high schooler know anyways?

He was just an insecure, gaslighting, borderline narc. who did not deserve Rachael. When her career was starting to thrive, he went on this rampage of how he feels he has no girlfriend. However, his career was all important. Then his very defined gender roles - nanny to his child does not play with dolls. 90s was not as rigid so him doing this is problematic for me.

When they had Emma, and he basically banned Rachael from having a relationship. Okay there. The Mark thing.

Which brings me to my last point (for now lol) - the break thing. Okay lets say they were on a break of sorts. But it takes you 2 hours to go sleep with someone else? Supposedly Rachael is the love of his life, but takes the guy less than a day to go get laid.

In all of this, Chandler Bing was the guy to be with. He had character development on a graph that just went up. As I grew older, I realized you want to end up with your best friend - not the whole trope of enemies to lovers, nerd hot person, etc.

Just some random thoughts - haven't watched Big Bang yet. I have seen tidbits here, and I think I'll agree with you. She settled.

I don’t think Ross is toxic

She asked him to not date anyone while she’s pregnant and he obliged

Penny/Leonard I think they checked some boxes for each other

Next - how Rachael was also toxic. Maybe they both deserved each other because of this? lol

I thought Ross was adorable and I loved Rachel-Ross. My fave characters in Friends were: Chandler, Joey, and Phoebe.❤️

But I didnt like Penny-Leonard one bit. They just didnt work me for even for a second.

Sheldon-Amy were even worse.

Agree with Penny Leonard. Never would relate to them.

Sheldon & Penny definitely had chemistry.

Ross & Rachel.. they were shown to have too much history not to end up together at the end of the show.

My favourite couple was Chandler and Monica though.

Isn't this what happens in real life too?

Most people settle down with the person they think is good enough or stable enough for marriage?

I agree it is sad.

Yes, Penny understands Sheldon the most, but I never onboard Shenny's ship; they always gave me a solid platonic relationship, like siblings. I find her a combination of Cooper women (Missy, Meemaw and Mary). Being involved in helping people with toxic marriages in IRL, sometimes you have to tell them straight that you should get a divorce; Penny and Leonard are not one of them. Another thing is Sheldon's shortcomings, including his condescending and ignorant attitude towards the people who are less intelligent than him, will eventually take a toll on Penny; if they were a couple. So, a science geek like Amy, who understands him, calls out to him when needed, and has a quirky taste like him, is suitable for Sheldon in the long run.

Agree with Penny's U-turn all of a sudden in the finale. Well, showbiz has a long history of stereotyping childfree people. Either they change their minds or are baby-eating cat-owned witches.

I haven't watched Friends.

https://youtu.be/outOVdmNS1o

https://youtu.be/m-rAz6hYbuM

Originally posted by: quiet_chaos

He was just an insecure, gaslighting, borderline narc. who did not deserve Rachael. When her career was starting to thrive, he went on this rampage of how he feels he has no girlfriend. However, his career was all important. Then his very defined gender roles - nanny to his child does not play with dolls. 90s was not as rigid so him doing this is problematic for me.

Ross is insecure for sure and does many childish things out of insecurity. He also performs some toxic masculinity to overcompensate for his insecurities. No human is perfect. And Ross has some serious flaws. But why would he not deserve Rachel? Rachel had her own toxic behaviors like interfering with so many of his relationships. In fact, she was the gaslighter who often made a move on Ross and turned around and placed it on him.

While Rachel interfered and ruined most of his long-term relationships (Julie, Bonnie, Emily, Mona - Not that Ross didn't have a role in ending those relationships) Ross doesn't try to actively interfere in Rachel's relationships. Sure, he does things like not passing on a phone number or feeling jealous - but he never told her he loved her when she was content with someone else, he never flirted with her with the intention to break up her relationship. He actually does so many kind and considerate things for her and others - he walks Carol down the aisle when her parents don't show up, despite the fact that Carol cheated on him and it gave him trust issues, he gives up a chance to be on television to help Rachel with her dislocated shoulder and never speaks about it, he is willing to let Rachel control the narrative of who came onto whom even though it makes him appear pathetic, he is willing to stop dating other women when Rachel is pregnant even though they are not together, he even gave his blessings to Rachel and Joey. They're well-matched together. An overall stand-up guy with some offputting toxic traits and an overall American sweetheart with some offputting toxic traits.

And I never thought Ross rampaged about not having a girlfriend. He laments how he's always wanted family and kids but his life has gone in the wrong direction. It's okay to rue things that could be. Monica does the same when she's single. I think not enough people point a finger at Jack and Judy who are terrible parents who have raised hypercompetitive, obsessive, and neurotic kids.

Originally posted by: quiet_chaos

When they had Emma, and he basically banned Rachael from having a relationship. Okay there. The Mark thing.

He never banned her from having a relationship. In fact, she was the one who banned him from a relationship when she was pregnant.

They both acted quite stupidly after Emma was born. They both started seeing themselves as family and wanted to be a family, but neither of them had the courage to take the next step - because they were both afraid of losing what they had.

Rachel goes to great lengths to stop Ross from getting the message from the guy at the bar but is dumb not to tell Ross how she feels. Ross gets jealous of Rachel kissing Gavin, but is dumb to accuse her of moving on instead of telling her how she feels. When Rachel blows up and moves out it is less about Ross being jealous - but more of a frustration - neither of them is able to take the next step with each other and is holding each other back from moving on - the situation is not working out - so she moves out.

And with Mark - Ross was right. Mark was interested in Rachel and was flirting with her. But Rachel refused to believe Ross all together. It was ridiculous of her to stick by the narrative that Mark was just some good Samaritan who gave a job to a random woman at a diner whose qualifications he had no clue about without any ulterior motive. Sure Mark wasn't a sleaze who expected a quid pro quo - but he wasn't an altruistic saint. All she had to do was acknowledge that Mark may be interested in her and reiterate her loyalty to Ross.

When Chandler is insecure of Richard, Monica doesn't deny the fact that Richard may still have feelings for her - she reiterates that no matter what Richard feels - she chooses Chandler.

Originally posted by: quiet_chaos

Which brings me to my last point (for now lol) - the break thing. Okay lets say they were on a break of sorts. But it takes you 2 hours to go sleep with someone else? Supposedly Rachael is the love of his life, but takes the guy less than a day to go get laid.

Nah. She wasn't the love of his life then. She was just the girl he had crushed on since ninth grade and was finally dating. They both took their relationship for granted. They both acted stupid (Ross more so) and they rightfully broke up. But the ups and downs they go through together for the next seven years, the intimacy and friendship they develop with each other over time, the fact they cannot stop hooking up, getting married, having kids, is what makes them perfect for each other. And had Rachel not been Monica's roommate or Ross not been Monica's brother - they would have drifted apart after the breakup and would have had very different lives. I don't think Ross and Rachel were destiny, but two people who found each other through the circumstances they were in.

Originally posted by: quiet_chaos

In all of this, Chandler Bing was the guy to be with. He had character development on a graph that just went up. As I grew older, I realized you want to end up with your best friend - not the whole trope of enemies to lovers, nerd hot person, etc.

True, Chandler and Monica are an underrated couple who got overshadowed by the Ross and Rachel drama. But I often felt that after the breakup Ross and Rachel too got to connect as friends. The reason Rachel is willing to overlook Ross sleeping with another woman during the break is that she knows him better as a friend than just her boyfriend.