1215019 thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#1

Originally posted by: M.Wheeler

I have a riddle -

In Harivamsa one of Krishna s cousins is said to be adopted by a significant character in Mahabharat. Guess the kingdom and the cousin

I guess you are referring to Śiśupāla, the son of Vasudeva's sister Śrutaśravas. Was Śiśupāla ever formally adopted by Jarāsaṃdha of Magadha?


Of course, Karṇa was Kṛṣṇa's cousin, adopted by Adhiratha and Rādhā, who can't be called significant characters.


Kṛṣṇa's paternal first cousins were Uddhava (son of Devabhāga and adopted by Devaśravas - not a significant character), Yaśasvin (son of Anādhṛṣṭi), Tantrija and Tantripāla (sons of Kanavaka), Vīra and Aśvahanu (sons of Gṛñjima), Sumitra (son of Śyāma), Ajātaśatru (son of Śamīka), Karṇa, Yudhiṣṭhira, Bhīmasena, and Arjuna (sons of Pṛthā), Dantavaktra (son of Pṛthukīrti), Agṛdhnu, Nikṛttaśatru, and Ekalavya (sons of Śrutadevā), Śiśupāla, Daśagrīva, Raibhya, Upadiśa, and Balin (sons of Śrutaśravas), and the five Kekaya brothers (sons of Rājādhidevī).


Ādiparvan introduces Ekalavya as the son of the Niṣāda king Hiraṇyadhanus, and Harivaṃśa says that Ekalavya was born to Śrutadevā and famous as a Niṣāda's son, being raised by Niṣādas. Hiraṇyadhanus could have been Ekalavya's birth father, or his adoptive father; either way, Hiraṇyadhanus is not a significant character.


Kṛṣṇa's maternal first cousins were Vidura's children (names and any adoptions unknown) and Kṛṣṇa's own half-siblings (any adoptions unknown): Bhoja and Vijaya (sons of Śāntidevā), Vṛkadeva and Gada (sons of Sudevā), Upāsaṅga (son of Devarakṣitā), Agāvaha and Śiśirāyaṇī (son and daughter of Vṛkadevī), Vijaya, Rocamāna, Vardhamāna, and Devala (sons of Upadevī), and Gaveṣaṇa (son of Sunāmnī).

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Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#2

I was actually talking about Krishna s cousin who is referred to as "Panchala" and given away for adoption.

Also, interestingly enough draupad the king of Panchal was looking to adopt a son

Too much of a coincidence don't you think?

Its just my theory because panchala given away for adoption is bit odd to me

What do you think?

1215019 thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#3

Originally posted by: M.Wheeler

I was actually talking about Krishna s cousin who is referred to as "Panchala" and given away for adoption.

Also, interestingly enough draupad the king of Panchal was looking to adopt a son

Too much of a coincidence don't you think?

Its just my theory because panchala given away for adoption is bit odd to me

What do you think?

I don't think that's the correct interpretation of the letters pañcālaṃ at Harivaṃśa 24.29. The verse is:

Gaṇḍūṣāya tv aputrāya Viṣvakseno dadau sutam

Cārudeṣṇaṃ sucāruṃ ca pañcā'laṃkṛta-lakṣaṇam


To (Vasudeva's brother) Gaṇḍūṣa who was sonless, Viṣvaksena (= Kṛṣṇa) gave his son, the very attractive Cārudeṣṇa, who had five adorning characteristics.


The next two verses make it clear that this adoption is of Cārudeṣṇa, the younger son of Rukmiṇī, who becomes his own father Kṛṣṇa's cousin in inheritance.


Where does Drupada seek to adopt a child rather than having a child born to his queen?

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: BrhannadaArmour

I don't think that's the correct interpretation of the letters pañcālaṃ at Harivaṃśa 24.29. The verse is:

Gaṇḍūṣāya tv aputrāya Viṣvakseno dadau sutam

Cārudeṣṇaṃ sucāruṃ ca pañcā'laṃkṛta-lakṣaṇam


To (Vasudeva's brother) Gaṇḍūṣa who was sonless, Viṣvaksena (= Kṛṣṇa) gave his son, the very attractive Cārudeṣṇa, who had five adorning characteristics.


The next two verses make it clear that this adoption is of Cārudeṣṇa, the younger son of Rukmiṇī, who becomes his own father Kṛṣṇa's cousin in inheritance.


Where does Drupada seek to adopt a child rather than having a child born to his queen?

Well, drisht and drau were adopted. Their fire birth contradicts what drau herself recalls about her childhood. If she arose as a fully grown woman from fire where does the childhood comes from?

Delusional_Minx thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: M.Wheeler

Well, drisht and drau were adopted. Their fire birth contradicts what drau herself recalls about her childhood. If she arose as a fully grown woman from fire where does the childhood comes from?

😆 StarBharat went on to create the beautiful BGM, main Draupadi jisne bachpan nahi dekha 😆

https://youtu.be/efqt4GvE5Ss

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: DelusionsOfNeha

😆 StarBharat went on to create the beautiful BGM, main Draupadi jisne bachpan nahi dekha 😆

https://youtu.be/efqt4GvE5Ss

Paar Epic drau toh kehti ki usne bachpan dekha h 😆

Delusional_Minx thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: M.Wheeler

Paar Epic drau toh kehti ki usne bachpan dekha h 😆

That's why it is StarBharat, apni hi MB likh rahe the writers🤣


In the old one, I believe the queen is pregnant after the Yajna? I don't remember.

Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: DelusionsOfNeha

That's why it is StarBharat, apni hi MB likh rahe the writers🤣


In the old one, I believe the queen is pregnant after the Yajna? I don't remember.

In brc too they show that drau popped out of fire. The epic says the same thing. But i think since mb is supposed to poem , the twins s fire birth is just symbolism of their adoption by draupad.

1215019 thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: DelusionsOfNeha

That's why it is StarBharat, apni hi MB likh rahe the writers🤣


In the old one, I believe the queen is pregnant after the Yajna? I don't remember.

Kṛṣṇā Draupadī says "āsīnāṃ pitur aṅke" - sitting on my father's lap (Āraṇyakaparvan 33.58) while narrating how the brāhmaṇa who taught her brothers Bṛhaspati's theory of politics used to talk to her. This does not imply that she was a child, as Mahābhārata gives us several examples of grown women sitting on a man's lap:

1. Ādiparvan 92.2-11: Gaṅgā who is of desirable shape (lobhanīyatam'ākṛtiḥ) sits on Pratīpa's right thigh, and he says that is the seat for offspring and daughters-in-law (apatyānāṃ snuṣāṇāṃ ca).

2. Sabhāparvan 63.10-12: After Karṇa advises Kṛṣṇā Draupadī to choose another husband, Duryodhana exposes his left thigh to her, expecting her to sit there.

3. Mausalaparvan 4.23: Satyabhāmā goes to Keśava's lap, crying about the memory of her father's murder.

As hard as it may be for us to imagine, these characters belonged to a culture in which adults sat on laps.


At Ādiparvan 155.37-52, Dhṛṣtadyumna is born with helmet, armour, sword, arrows, and bow, and gets onto a chariot; Kṛṣṇā is born with a shapely waist and buttocks. Then Dhṛṣṭadyumna goes to Droṇa's home to learn astra-use. Being old enough to carry weapons didn't mean that Dhṛṣṭadyumna's education was complete. When Kṛṣṇā says that she and her brothers learned politics, she could be talking about Dhṛṣṭadyumna at this age.


Although the text is clear that Dhṛṣṭadyumna was born from the fire and Kṛṣṇā arose from the middle of the altar, it implies that the original plan was for Queen Pṛṣatī to become pregnant, and maybe even for the priest Yāja to impregnate her.


At Ādiparvan 155.15-19, Upayāja tells Drupada that Yāja is unscrupulous: he ate a fruit that had fallen on ground of uncertain cleanliness, he used to eat leftover alms and praise their quality. While the point is that Yāja is capable of performing a yajña with the sinful purpose of killing a brāhmaṇa like Droṇa, Yāja's eating unclean food could also be a metaphor to tell us that he could be tempted to copulate with another man's wife.


Some manuscripts specify that the yajña performed by Yāja for Drupada was a Kaukilī Sautrāmaṇī. The adjective Kaukilī means "of the Kokila," evoking the imagery of a cuckoo laying its eggs in another bird's nest.


At Ādiparvan 155.34-36, the yajña is complete, and Yāja calls, "Praihi māṃ, rājñi Pṛṣati! mithunaṃ tvām upasthitam." Come forward to me, Queen Pṛṣatī! A couple awaits you. We can infer that Yāja wants Pṛṣatī to eat the food that he has boiled and Upayāja has enchanted, which will enable her to conceive mithuna twins, a pair of opposite sex. (Indeed, some manuscripts have an additional half-verse here, clarifying that the mithuna is a son and a daughter.) However, Yāja's syntax is careless: "praihi māṃ" instead of simply "praihi" suggests that Pṛṣatī is to approach Yāja (sexually?) rather than the altar, and the sentence "mithunaṃ tvām upasthitam" could be read together with "māṃ" - me, awaiting you as partner. "mithunaṃ" - couple - could be a metonym of "maithunaṃ" - coupling. What Yāja really meant is up to us to interpret.


The queen replies, "Avaliptaṃ me mukhaṃ, brahman! puṇyān gandhān bibharmi ca. sut'ārthen'oparuddhā'smi. tiṣṭha, Yāja! mama priye." My mouth has residue, brāhmaṇa! I am putting on good fragrances. For the sake of a son, I am delayed. Wait, Yāja! for my benefit. Pṛṣatī could be cleaning up to approach the yajña and eat the sanctified food, or perhaps ritual copulation with Yāja is what she expects.


Yāja replies, "Yājena śrapitaṃ havyam Upayājena mantritam kathaṃ kāmaṃ na saṃdadhyāt? sā tvaṃ vipraihi, tiṣṭha vā!" The offering boiled by Yāja and enchanted by Upayāja - how will it not unite you with your desire? So, you come forward quickly, or wait! Saying this, he offers the sanctified food into the yajña fire and miraculously produces the son and daughter whom Pṛṣatī claims, saying, "na vai mad-anyāṃ jananīṃ jānīyātām imau" May these two not know any mother other than me.

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