Kangana says sanskrit should be our national language. - Page 8

Originally posted by: Illyrion

The Rakigarhi paper was intentionally misrepresented by Hindutva adherents because that was preferable to celebrating the fact that ancient Dravidians created a successful agricultural civilization that predated the Aryans in the Indus Valley - heaven forbid a successful Indian civilization pre-exist the Vedas! And far more importantly heaven forbid having to explain where Aryans and the proto-Vedas came from… so of course better to ignore the linguistic and DNA evidence, better to forget the Mitanni people, better to pretend to not understand.

It is obviously true all Indians came from people who originally migrated to India because humans originated in Africa. So what??? The real history of India and Indians and Hinduism (and Buddhism for that matter) in India is amazing. Why do some people need to pervert history and contradict science before they can be satisfied with what Indians have accomplished? Whether a relatively peaceful migration or (as the Vedas repeatedly suggest) a more militant invasion, genetics and linguistics confirm Aryans moved from Central Asia into India and encountered and interbred with Dravidians. They brought their language and religion with them - why pretend that language and religion were not the foundation of Sanskrit and the Vedas? What is the big deal? It was still in India that the Vedas evolved into modern Hinduism and it was still in India that the genetic melting pot created modern Indians. Acknowledging history doesn’t detract what India and Indians have accomplished and it certainly doesn’t threaten Hinduism as I practice it.

I’m learning loads today with the back and forth.

Btw can someone please suggest some books where I can read up on all this, like ones that are good. I’ve always been interested on Ancient civilisations in India.

Sanskrit? Now that's a good idea. Should make everyone equally happy. Or not.😆

Originally posted by: springkissed

The Aryan invasion theory is absolute bullshit. We are one culture! British and west brought this theory to tear us apart and we bought it. It's time to let it go! Our vedas, upnishadas, Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc are written in Sanskrit. There should be no shame in respecting and spreading the use of that language. Ii holds the root of our ancient vedic culture.

true. These guys started with AIT. Once that theory got totally debunked, they switched to AMT.😆I agree that the OIT stuff is hogwash but that's just a distraction the AMT crowd uses to discredit the opposing viewpoint. It should not even be part of the debate.

now, for the AMT crowd purporting to talk genetics to make the half-baked AMT theories sound half-way intellectual, here's the real deal-

Various genetic studies, conducted with small sample sizes, have established the following (citing the fact that what i have is borrowed heavily/ excerpted from what's there on the net, same as the rest of us except some of us don't pretend to have done the scholarly work ourselves):

1. There were no large migrations into India for the last 12,500 years.
2. The genetic make-up of Indians have remained pretty much the same, for the last 40,000 years.
3. However, genetics also concluded that some Indians (in North India predominantly) and Europeans are genetically related. The R1a haplogroup is common to both groups. => Can be easily explained by the fact that the north has been more of a portal for interaction with the outside world through antiquity.
4. While the haplogroup that is most common in South Indians is found nowhere else in the world. It is seen in North Indians though to some extent. => about the only thing that gives a non-miniscule level of credence to the two race theory.

Now for folks to conclude AMT is established manna from heaven, that's not very intellectually rigorous imo. Far from it.

Also, there are additional logical arguments against AMT. For another day.

By the way, can someone elucidate for us what is Dravidian culture? From what i read:

"Dravidian culture - Burial culture, ancestor and nature worship, millet and grains staple food, Architecturally inclined. Proto - Tamil.

Aryan Culture - Cremation culture, fire worship, rice staple food, religiously inclined, Vedic-sanskrit.

The people were the same. Their culture changed. There was no genetic change involved. There was no invasion.

Both cultures evolved here. Most likely, the Dravidian culture came earlier here, with the Aryan culture arriving much later."

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

Sanskrit? Now that's a good idea. Should make everyone equally happy. Or not.😆

I kinda agree with this idea 👍🏼

Originally posted by: springkissed

The Aryan invasion theory is absolute bullshit. We are one culture! British and west brought this theory to tear us apart and we bought it. It's time to let it go! Our vedas, upnishadas, Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc are written in Sanskrit. There should be no shame in respecting and spreading the use of that language. Ii holds the root of our ancient vedic culture.

We were never of one culture. We were always divided and were leading our own lives from time immemorial. Way before British came many other rulers as well as invaders used force to merge us into one kingdom with one culture and religion and needless to say they never succeeded. It is during freedom fight that they all came on their own to become one nation with all their diverse cultures and religions. Today's India is Union formed voluntarily. This imposition of Hindi Sanskrit and Vedic religion is no different from the impositions faced by the people subcontinent over thousands of years.

Vedic culture is Aryan culture Sanskrit is Aryan language and Vedas are about Aryans, their history, culture religion and their practices.

Dravidians even Hindu Dravidians their practices are way different from Vedic Hinduism. This should be accepted as part of Hinduism and not impose Aryan version of Hinduism on them.

India can stay peaceful and prosperous only if the differences are accepted and celebrated.

Originally posted by: aparnauma

We were never of one culture. We were always divided and were leading our own lives from time immemorial. Way before British came many other rulers as well as invaders used force to merge us into one kingdom with one culture and religion and needless to say they never succeeded. It is during freedom fight that they all came on their own to become one nation with all their diverse cultures and religions. Today's India is Union formed voluntarily. This imposition of Hindi Sanskrit and Vedic religion is no different from the impositions faced by the people subcontinent over thousands of years.

Vedic culture is Aryan culture Sanskrit is Aryan language and Vedas are about Aryans, their history, culture religion and their practices.

Dravidians even Hindu Dravidians their practices are way different from Vedic Hinduism. This should be accepted as part of Hinduism and not impose Aryan version of Hinduism on them.

India can stay peaceful and prosperous only if the differences are accepted and celebrated.

i agree there were likely two cultures. Like there are a lot of cultures in India today- from the tribals to the others. In this context, note that culture is a term that encompasses a lot. But how did this even become pertinent to proving AMT? In terms of racial make up, its not changed much across the subcontinent, all the purported "established" facts to genetics the AMT crowd has been claiming notwithstanding.

by the way, what is dravidian culture? burial? ancestor worship?

i agree, we should celebrate differences. But not at the cost of making stuff up. And how about celebrating unity as Indians? is that possible, or nothing is possible unless you get your way?

Originally posted by: aparnauma

Whether Aryans invaded or migrated is not the issue. But the point here is that there was a civilisation existent before Aryans entered this continent. That should not be ignored. Vedic religion is synonymous with Aryans.Indian subcontinent is a mixture of Aryans and Dravidians. Dravidian beliefs and practices also should be considered before imposing Sanskrit and Vedic religion on them.

lol Aryans invaded or migrated is not an issue? Isnt that what some of you have been arguing? You could have saved us the bother.😆Now that was your very first statement.

as for your very next statement, before Aryans entered this continent? Again, isnt that what we are debating?😆

your last line- implication is there is a separate Dravidian religion (in addition to culture which i pointed out previously). So what is the dravidian religion?😆

should we go on with the post analysis?

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

i agree there were likely two cultures. Like there are a lot of cultures in India today- from the tribals to the others. In this context, note that culture is a term that encompasses a lot. But how did this even become pertinent to proving AMT? In terms of racial make up, its not changed much across the subcontinent, all the purported "established" facts to genetics the AMT crowd has been claiming notwithstanding.

by the way, what is dravidian culture? burial? ancestor worship?

i agree, we should celebrate differences. But not at the cost of making stuff up. And how about celebrating unity as Indians? is that possible, or nothing is possible unless you get your way?

You don't see Dravidians wanting to impose their culture across North of India. Why This desire to impose Aryan culture and languages on Dravidians? Why trying to pass off Aryan language culture and religion as the culture language of entire India? The moment they stop doing this everything will be peaceful and acceptance will come on it's own.

Originally posted by: aparnauma

You don't see Dravidians wanting to impose their culture across North of India. Why This desire to impose Aryan culture and languages on Dravidians? Why trying to pass off Aryan language culture and religion as the culture language of entire India? The moment they stop doing this everything will be peaceful and acceptance will come on it's own.

Countries that have progressed (germany, america, england, france, japan etc) have a common language. It helps imo integrate people, economies etc. Of course, people should have the ability to hold on to culture that's great, but i think one also needs to think more nationally. Agree too that imposition is not a god idea... but there has to be a way after 70 years of independence to find greater integration. Fragmented regions, castes, states, just lead to ghettoization and balkanization in the long run.

as for feeling underappreciated, on the contrary, I think some of the southern customs are appreciated up north. I am often told that the south is more tuned in to Indian customs and religion than the north. Makes me wonder if a lot of what some of you seem to be thinking is perhaps your own misunderstanding.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

Countries that have progressed (germany, america, england, france, japan etc) have a common language. It helps imo integrate people, economies etc. Of course, people should have the ability to hold on to culture that's great, but i think one also needs to think more nationally. Agree too that imposition is not a god idea... but there has to be a way after 70 years of independence to find greater integration. Fragmented regions, castes, states, just lead to ghettoization and balkanization in the long run.

as for feeling underappreciated, on the contrary, I think some of the southern customs are appreciated up north. I am often told that the south is more tuned in to Indian customs and religion than the north. Makes me wonder if a lot of what some of you seem to be thinking is perhaps your own misunderstanding.

Well then, do I have a solution for you.

As the oldest language still in use, adopt Tamil as the national language.

Problem solved.