OT - Controversial topic - Casteism

So the most recent hot topic on twitter is this joke which many are accusing of being casteist

https://twitter.com/outcastritesh/status/1393945614946164746

https://twitter.com/kunalkamra88/status/1394274149850353665

He did apologize after the outrage.

So now coming to the controversial part of the post -

I think while the joke is definitely casteist, but deep down -- what he said, that you should not put those who got into the system through reservation in extremely critical situations of life and death -- is that completely wrong?

I mean what would you do if, god forbid, your loved ones were caught in a life and death situation and their fate is to be decided by the doctor that operates them. If you had two options, one - a doctor who is from general quota, or another doctor who is from a reserved quota (meaning their marks in all likelihood may not have been high enough, but thanks to the quota created for backward classes, they were able to get into the system). What would you do?

So the most recent hot topic on twitter is this joke which many are accusing of being casteist

https://twitter.com/outcastritesh/status/1393945614946164746

It led to reactions like this

https://twitter.com/kunalkamra88/status/1394274149850353665

https://twitter.com/AandeGaram/status/1393920624360185858

He did apologize after the outrage.

So now coming to the controversial part of the post -

I think while the joke is definitely casteist, but deep down, what he said -- that you should not put those who got into the system through reservation in extremely critical situations of life and death -- is that completely wrong?

I mean what would you do if, god forbid, your loved ones were caught in a life and death situation and their fate is to be decided by the doctor that operates them. If you had two options, one - a doctor who is from general quota, and another doctor who is from a reserved quota (meaning their marks in all likelihood may not have been high enough, but thanks to the quota created for backward classes, they were able to get into the system). What would you do? Who would you choose?

Reservation only exists during the admissions.

The students from the backward classes still have to study hard to pass the college exams to go ahead in their class and get the degree to become a doctor....and there's no leniency given to them there for being from a backward caste. They are judged the same way like the general students.

The fact that you think that just because a doctor is from a backward caste, his or her marks ain't going to be up to the mark compared to a general student speaks volumes about how casteism still exists even if it's internally.

What are now the students of backward classes supposed to do? Take admission from general quota? Then you would say that they are eating up your seats. Whatever they do, they would get judged.

Originally posted by: AwaamKiJaan

Reservation only exists during the admissions.

The students from the backward classes still have to study hard to pass the college exams to go ahead in their class and get the degree to become a doctor....and there's no leniency given to them there for being from a backward caste. They are judged the same way like the general students.

The fact that you think that just because a doctor is from a backward caste, his or her marks ain't going to be up to the mark compared to a general student speaks volumes about how casteism still exists even if it's internally.

What are now the students of backward classes supposed to do? Take admission from general quota? Then you would say that they are eating up your seats. Whatever they do, they would get judged.

Reservations exist during admissions, yes, but the fact that their test scores were not enough to clear cutoff in general category means they are inferior academically speaking.

Doesn't matter how many marks they got in the college - 35 or 80, they would still hold a degree. Someone who scored high marks during admissions is also likely to get higher than average marks in the college.

I didn't say all doctors from backward classes have low marks, I said in all likelihood, which means clearly exceptions exist. Just as those general category students who may have cleared the admissions test but lose their way during college. But again, those would be exceptions.

No one is saying what students from backward classes are supposed to do. They have been historically discriminated against, which means they do not have equitable access to resources. That is why the bar is lowered for them during admissions, to remove some of that inequity. Which is necessary and my argument isn't against reservation at all. I am pro reservation and very much so.

However, my only dilemma is this hypothetical scenario where I have to choose one doctor from different backgrounds to save my loved one, and I would want to save them at all costs so I would want them to get the best doctor. So going by probability, I would want them to be operated by a student from general category. This by no means is to say that a doctor from BC is inferior. It is just statistically lot more likely to be the case.

Originally posted by: Lord_Voldemort

Reservations exist during admissions, yes, but the fact that their test scores were not enough to clear cutoff in general category means they are inferior academically speaking.

Doesn't matter how many marks they got in the college - 35 or 80, they would still hold a degree. Someone who scored high marks during admissions is also likely to get higher than average marks in the college.

I didn't say all doctors from backward classes have low marks, I said in all likelihood, which means clearly exceptions exist. Just as those general category students who may have cleared the admissions test but lose their way during college. But again, those would be exceptions.

No one is saying what students from backward classes are supposed to do. They have been historically discriminated against, which means they do not have equitable access to resources. That is why the bar is lowered for them during admissions, to remove some of that inequity. Which is necessary and my argument isn't against reservation at all. I am pro reservation and very much so.

However, my only dilemma is this hypothetical scenario where I have to choose one doctor from different backgrounds to save my loved one, and I would want to save them at all costs so I would want them to get the best doctor. So going by probability, I would want them to be operated by a student from general category. This by no means is to say that a doctor from BC is inferior. It is just statistically lot more likely to be the case.

If you have to choose a doctor to save yours or a loved ones life, there's more to look at than just their caste. What matters the most is how is their reputation as a doctor, that whether it's good or bad.

You're saying you would judge a doctor to be incompetent only because he's from a backward caste, even though the doctor could've cleared the entrance exams with high marks as well. It's not like all the backward class students who take admission through reservation get low marks or are bad students.

But of course, people would judge the whole community the same because of a few bad apples. General or any caste students passing the entrance exam with high marks and then losing their way during college aren't exceptions. The study of MBBS is much more tougher than the passing 12th board exams.

If they don't get good marks in college, then most likely they would not get hired by big and reputed hospitals either.

Originally posted by: AwaamKiJaan

If you have to choose a doctor to save yours or a loved ones life, there's more to look at than just their caste. What matters the most is how is their reputation as a doctor, that whether it's good or bad.

You're saying you would judge a doctor to be incompetent only because he's from a backward caste, even though the doctor could've cleared the entrance exams with high marks as well. It's not like all the backward class students who take admission through reservation get low marks or are bad students.

But of course, people would judge the whole community the same because of a few bad apples. General or any caste students passing the entrance exam with high marks and then losing their way during college aren't exceptions. The study of MBBS is much more tougher than the passing 12th board exams.

If they don't get good marks in college, then most likely they would not get hired by big and reputed hospitals either.

Nope, not saying anyone's incompetent. Let's just say when you lack any other additional information, what would you do? You only know their caste, nothing else.

Many hospitals do not have stringent criteria with marks.

Originally posted by: Lord_Voldemort

Nope, not saying anyone's incompetent. Let's just say when you lack any other additional information, what would you do? You only know their caste, nothing else.

Many hospitals do not have stringent criteria with marks.

If I only know their caste then I would try to find more about them...and if I can't do that then I would find another doctor about whom I know more about than just his/her caste.

If hospitals don't care about marks, then they would care about knowledge and skills of the doctor, and if they don't care about that either then that's not a good hospital.

Originally posted by: AwaamKiJaan

If I only know their caste then I would try to find more about them...and if I can't do that then I would find another doctor about whom I know more about than just his/her caste.

Let's say you don't succeed. You still have the same two doctors left and you cannot know anything more about them since it's an emergency situation. So you have to act quickly.

What. Will. You. Do?

Originally posted by: Lord_Voldemort

Let's say you don't succeed. You still have the same two doctors left and you cannot know anything more about them since it's an emergency situation. So you have to act quickly.

What. Will. You. Do?

You are making a hypothetical situation whose chances of happening are one in a thousand.

What will I do? If such a situation arises, I still won't care about their caste. Maybe I would choose the senior doctor who has more experience.

If I don't know that either, I would leave it on the doctors to decide. But if I had the privilege of choosing a doctor for my operation or surgery, then I would probably be privileged enough to know more about them.

I have 2 friends who benefited from reservation.

Both of their parents well to do. Most kids come to school on bicycles, these 2 had bike and active. Expensive mobiles too.

Now another case is the uncle who cleans our colony. I repeatedly told him to let his son complete his education. Help him. Take benefits of govt schemes, he didn’t. Got his son married and at 22, he is father of the kid. Now washes cars in the locality.

Tell me, who needed the reservation and who enjoyed the perks. I dislike Indian reservation system so much. Poor farmer family kids have no reservation coz of falling in general quota and rich govt officers kids enjoy reservation. Gandhi ji only wanted this for 10 years, to elevate dalits to better lifestyle. Now reservation has become a tool for votebank politics.