Addressing the elephant in the room... Note on Pg 21 (24 April) - Page 3

Thank you so much for this post

You said everything which has been the norm of itv.... Like others, know the show you referred to... I've seen girls swooning over the guy in that show and even wishing for a man like him as husband😕

Now even after 10 years things are pretty much the same or maybe turned worser than it was before... Even today, manhandling, pushing and shoving of FL is considered as romatic... Not surprisingly, movies like kabir singh which promotes toxic masculinity is a big hit.... At same time movies like thappad which clearly sent the message that not even one slap is okay suffered in box office.

No matter what anyone says, but virat is an extremely toxic and problematic person... If the makers are intending to say that its the toxic environment which makes him behave the way he does, then they need to show him getting help... Therappy, counselling etc can help him a lot... Instead they will show him continuing with his behaviour and sai forgiving him... Women are treated as rehabilitation centres for problematic men.

Originally posted by: jj0812

I completely agree with you !I do not understand this show, the thinking and actions of the changers are forms of abuse,yet it’s passed off as normal.For instance, how is it okay that your husband aunt is controlling everything in the house and whatever she says and does is okay?

Not only normalised, but, trivialised as well. Sai being forced to grind chilli was trivialised by the makers. No one bothered to pursue the fact that she was forced to do so.

During the alta scene, Virat was going to admonish Sai and force her to wear alta, but, all was forgotten because she looked pretty!

Ninad making comments on Ashwini's physical appearance was crass, but it was too easily brushed under the carpet! Again, my issue is not that these things were shown, but instead, these issues were shown without a critique, which then looks like the show is legitimising these things.

Originally posted by: -Wanderer-

I agree with everything you said. My experience on indiaforums is a lot like yours. It's been 11 years for me. I was a teenager as well when I entered indiaforums much like you- crazy about a starone show. Romance in most shows have been about an 'ALPHA MALE' who admittedly even I liked at one point of time.

I found scenes of hand holding, wall pushing, verbal abuse in the name of love passionate. There were more problematic scenes which I never liked like kidnapping, marrying forcibly, slapping, raping and plain fraudulent behaviour like pretending to love someone for revenge. I am ashamed to admit it but that's just the kind of control platforms like this have on you. It's no use saying that it's our fault for learning from TV. TV did influence me. I'd like to say I've changed some of my views for the better but that's what we al would like to think.

Later on I came to see the problem in that kind of romance. I began to appreciate love that is respectful(and boring😄). I began to see that just to make a love story passionate it doesn't have to be abusive.

So yes, what Virat did is problematic on too many levels. No matter what his excuse, he can't be forgiven. An abuser is not always like an extreme character who will have evil monologues with himself. There are characters like Virat with a false sense of ego and entitlement.

Another thing I dislike is why educated and well raised women are pitted against each other over a man. It sends out a bad message to society. I see little reason why a woman of Pakhi's stature would drown her self respect for a man who rejected her. But then that's just how they get their daily dose of drama.

I don't know any good options of shows to watch on TV now. I will continue to watch this show every now and then until I get bored of it.

You are so on point. Seriously, today when I look back im like how the hell did I find such kind of content ok. But, then, there is nothing wrong with us. The media had already instilled in us that this is what romance is, through the incessant portrayal of such romance and content. It was only when I moved to other TV shows and studied media later that I understood this vicious circle of portrayal and assimilation. I seriously think that respecting each other, hearing the other out, trusting each other is more romantic and intimate.

Just because he has been portrayed as a soft, sensitive and emotional man does not mean that he should not be held accountable. He is abusive. Period.

I still don't know what Pakhi finds in Virat that she is so obssessed with him.

There are some shows around which are more on the progressive side...

Originally posted by: Krishum

Loved your post ❤️ It is disgusting that ITV is showing such garbage in 2021 and they are getting high TRP which is even more shocking. Then can we even blame producers when our viewers from 2021 are enjoying it instead of boycotting it?

You said everything that was going in my mind after watching the episode. Dil khatta ho gaya after watching Virat falling so low. I won't be able to watch this show anymore either.

Its a vicious circle actually. For years, we've been taught that this kind of garbage is romance. We've accepted and internalised this ideology. Consequently, when we see these shows we want to see the ideology we've internalised reflected. When we get bold FLs or MLs that actually make sense and "normal" romance with no intense push and pull romance, we are not satisfied. Thus, we do not give these shows TRPs because they do not match what we've always been taught!

Unless we recognise that these shows are putting forward problematic structures, which we are unconsciously consuming and assimilating, there will be no end to this circle.

Originally posted by: Chahat_A_Doshi

Even when she was going to the DIG's office and not wanting to disclose where she was going

He said I won't be able to carry on with the zimmedari with this attitude of yours

As long as she goes along with his needs his wants his expectations he's fine else zimmedari nahi utha paoonga

During Alta seq he even gave Karishma the permission Haath pakadkar le aao

Since this is a remake we have Sai

If it was a Hindi original the FL would have become a doormat in 2 months.

Exactly, he has been repeatedly displaying this - I'm the one who is in control here, so you gotta tell me what you are upto. You can dismiss that as concern initially, but then he says dialogues as follows:

"You are not going out"

"But why"

Note his reply, there is no concern here, he says

"Because im telling you not to"

Its is all about him and his ego.

Exactly, he goes all cutesy and happy go lucky when she complies, when not, he questions the marriage.

Im so happy that Sai is no pushover, but the fact that they will end up together ruins it for me. Still, Sai's character is refreshing and I hope there are more like her.

Wow!! You have mirrored your thoughts beautifully!! Couldn't agree more.

People accept apologies because they are lead to a belief that there will not be an occurance of the same in the future. The hope that this is going to be the last time that they are even having a talk about this.

The tone and the body language used when a person is apologetic wires your mind into feeling bad for the person. It is easier said to not give second chances or more chances to a person. Sometimes people genuinely need a chance while sometimes it is a temporary fix to a problem.

It all lies in the equation that is shared by two people. There rarely lies a shortcut way to leave people then and there and get going. One hurts the other, one gets hurt and then through a series of experiences they face is how they make a final call to their relationship.

Originally posted by: I-Am-SherLOCKED

I LOVE this post and I agree with everything you said. Also, I think I know the show you’re talking about. It was the same show which also filled my head with wrong notions about romance. To a 13-14 year old, it was the very epitome of passion. Manhandling, wall-pinning were all portrayed as something which was cute and exciting just because the toxic dude had feelings for this girl and also because he was drop dead gorgeous. I wish such shows, scenes and characters were something we could say was in the past and ITV has come a long way but alas, it has not. A newly launched show and also another show on the same channel showed similar behaviour and I am sure it will all be forgiven because the guys are hot and they said a feeble sorry.

Quite like you, I stuck on with GHKPM because of the SaiRat charm. They weren’t the typical hate-love story. Their banter, their conversations, the mutual respect, all this was very alluring for me because in real life, most relationships are like this. You don’t have a perfect start but somewhere you find your to each other. SaiRat seemed like that couple to me. I was super proud of the writers for normalising things like giving a head massage, sharing a bed, having some real conversations between two individuals who were forced into this situation but tried to make the best of it.

Virat’s behaviour has been abhominable and if there is a reason why I am still watching this trashy, regressive show, it is Sai Joshi. I love this girl. She feels, she cries but she never backs down. She treats others as she is treated. I particularly loved it when she threatened Virat to file a domestic abuse case. She should go ahead and do it.

The points you make about Virat gaslighting her are bang on. He is manipulative and as we saw, an entitled egoistic male chauvanist. He wanted to control her and I am sorry, I just don’t buy this excuse of his behaviour coming from concern for her. Virat has this aura and I am sure everyone has always been impressed with him but not Sai. Sai is the one person who has been immune to Virat’s Viratness and his fragile ego can’t stand that.

Personally, I don’t think Virat can be redeemed. He has said the most brutal things and even exerted physical control. I hope Sai leaves forever but obviously, it’s a show and she won’t.
The makers had a great opportunity to not show regressive content but they blew it. They will instead use Neil’s phenomenal talent to melt the audience. I wish Ayesha and Neil or anyone else has objected to this scene.

This is exactly what im talking about when I say it is not just a show. That even with content meant to entertain, makers should be careful not to spread the wrong message.

Like you, me and others here, how many young girls out of IF have watched such types of shows, how many of them have been smitten and wanted a relationship like that. The thought that some people going through toxic relationships thinking that it is normal, because that's what they've been constantly fed, it scares me.

The GC wale SaiRat, the SaiRat during the admission drama, the bedroom scenes of SaiRat where they just talked were so so beautiful. It was a revelation, and I enjoyed them because it was wholesome, it made you feel warm. Like even if there were differences in opinion, you saw the scope of them making it work.

The admiration that I have for Sai Joshi is unmatched. There are very few that comes close to how strong she has been portrayed. For me, Virat cannot be redeemed as well.

Unfortunately this is what sells and makers are only concerned with TRPs. And so, such type of content are here to stay.

Originally posted by: msin

Whether you like it or not .. virat has been shown as the most realistic guy I have seen in Indian tv in a long long time .

You look around .. you will not get Demi gods or knights in shining armour who will do the things in a right way .,

You will also not get romantic heroes in daily life .. flirting with you

I have seen so many husbands among my group of friends and family behaving like him ..Most have an excellent professional life and are very popular with their friends.. but in a moment of anger can hurt their wives

And a lot of them don’t take the stand if supporting their wives in front of their own family

Because Indians have been conditioned to live in joint families .. we are changing . But we remember our parents staying awake in the night to make us study

Today virat is listening to Kaku ka diktats because in his childhood he owes something to his Kaka abd Kaku ..

It is not so easy to shrug it off abd start support your wife .. gradually after a few years .. things start shifting

You build ur own base .. have kids .. in your heart the wife n kid becomes more prominent and you get used to supporting ur wife ..

I am not saying what virat did was right .. it was very very wrong .. but 7 out of 10 cases the wife forgives it and moves on ..

If it is a continued thing .. then it’s a problem ..

I am not saying ladies should accept it .. but every body has their own set of rules to follow ..

I am glad to watch a series where the hero is human and not a god or a knight .. because frankly I will never get those in reality

He is no knight in shinning armor, no demi god, he has his own flaws, his portrayal is realistic. I absolutely acknowledge that - I know there are guys who hurt their wives in anger, those who cannot take a stand.

What I want to bring forward is, he is also realistic as an abusive character who will be forgiven just because he is the ML. That's it and that's the very intention in putting up this post.

I genuinely love nuanced characters, I love characters with flaws, characters who strive to be better - but all of this needs very good scriptwriting, which is lacking here, because the audience as the FLs forgive easily.

Maybe it's because I've watched countless asian dramas during the break I took from ITV that the standard for ML is very, very high. And Virat kind of falls flat in comparison. In fact, my IF buddies have recently introduced me to other nuanced MLs who have been portrayed with a touch of realism.

Originally posted by: ..Peppermint..

He is no knight in shinning armor, no demi god, he has his own flaws, his portrayal is realistic. I absolutely acknowledge that - I know there are guys who hurt their wives in anger, those who cannot take a stand.

What I want to bring forward is, he is also realistic as an abusive character who will be forgiven just because he is the ML. That's it and that's the very intention in putting up this post.

I genuinely love nuanced characters, I love characters with flaws, characters who strive to be better - but all of this needs very good scriptwriting, which is lacking here, because the audience as the FLs forgive easily.

Maybe it's because I've watched countless asian dramas during the break I took from ITV that the standard for ML is very, very high. And Virat kind of falls flat in comparison. In fact, my IF buddies have recently introduced me to other nuanced MLs who have been portrayed with a touch of realism.

agree script writing is lazy .. they are just copying KD

wheb they don’t have to think of plot atleast they should focus in better situations around it .. better dialogues

Originally posted by: ..Peppermint..

This is a bit long, so, kindly bear with me.😆

I remember entering IF 8 or so years as a teenager, crazy about this one show, about this ML who was rough and tough, holding the hands of the heroine firmly. From my screen, it looked like a passionate moment - because ITV had, until that point, subtly taught me; that holding the hands of the heroine in a tight grip was the first step of romance; that feeling the need to “control” the FL and the irrational jealousy, felt by the male lead, was a symbol of his passion; that no matter what crap the other end is giving you - it’s fine, because hey, they are the endgame and no matter what happens in between, the FL is bound to love the ML.

However, the IF members of that show opened mine, and many other teenager’s eyes, that what we were seeing, was not romance. I was amongst the youngest members - and I remember the forum flooding with posts, elder members PM-ing us to tell us that this is not okay in real life. I guess this is what this post is about today. I haven't watched an ITV show, in its entirety, for years before GHKKPM and so I’m kind of appalled at the type of regressive content that this show is promoting in the name of tradition and romance. It’s 2021, for heaven’s sake.

I knew it was toxic - all the screaming in the living room was indication enough, but I guess I stuck with the show, because of the charm that SaiRat had and because of the potential the plot had. As a prime time show, with rocketing TRP, this show could have easily been one of those that sets itself apart from the crowd - it has a rebelling FL who believes in standing up for what is right, it has a ML who is an IPS officer responsible for Nari suraksha -a ML quite unlike other MLs that I’ve come across in ITV - however, the writers failed to do justice with the storyline, the characters and the actors. I know it’s a remake, but there is nothing that stops you from re-working what you have and make this the best version.

The show is bent on promoting domestic abuse as normal. I will not focus much on the family remembers for there have been a lot of discussions on that already. I will talk about Sai and Virat today.

Emotional Abuse

While physical abuse is visible to eyes, emotional ones are subtler and yet as harmful and traumatising as any other form of abuse is. Virat's behaviour towards his 18 year old wife is shocking, to say the least. While some may justify some of his actions as care and concern- it does not change the fact that he is displaying signs of an abusive partner. Some of it are below,

It’s never my fault - Calling Sai jhooti when she questions him about his love, blaming Sai for making him manhandle her ( “Mil gayi Khushi, mere paarivar ke samne mera sarr sharam se jhukakar”). Closely linked to this is gaslighting - during the trip sequence he says something like take a sword or something and kill me to both Pakhi and Sai, somehow shifting the blame of the failed trip on them when he was the one at fault. There is little attempt to understand her, but, he expects her to understand him to the core.

Putting her down - calling her badtameez, ehsan faramosh, publicly humiliating her and letting his family get away with calling her jungli, badtameez, besharam, nalayak, ghamandi and so on. Reminding her that her “Abba ne majboor kiya tha” (usney majboor nahi kiya tha Virat - Usney Vaada liya tha. Aur Vaade mein shaadi nahi, zimmedari uthana tha. And vaada tum todh bhi sakte they) This constant reminder that the marriage happened because of her Abba, is an attempt to put her down and is part and parcel of his controlling tactic - he is so swift in blaming her for marrying him and it comes from his savior complex, which should result in something like Sai should be grateful that he married her and saved her. This is what Aai reminds Sai every other day - that kismat walon ko hi Virat jaisa husband milta hain. This kind of instills the belief in you that you are not worthy of your partner and so, should be grateful that he is still with you. In the long run, it tampers your self-respect.

Not hearing Sai out and trying to control her are other problematic behaviors. The thing with emotional abusers is - they are not entirely bad, they are good at times, very very good and this makes you wonder whether something is wrong with you that you are misjudging their care.

Other problematic signs are - expecting you to put everything aside and meet their needs (Alta sequence, recent lunch sequence).

Physical Abuse

Think that is pretty clear in this week’s episode. Additionally, in the Alta sequence as well, he was okay with the use of force so that Sai could perform the chotti si ritual.

I will include Economic/Financial Abuse here as well - so withholding/ threatening to withhold physical needs - by denying food and money is part of domestic abuse as well. He did not say it once, for me to at the very least give him the benefit of the doubt - he said it a lot of times.

Restraining her against her will, caging her, locking her, “main tumhe kamre mein band karunga” - basically holding Sai hostage is another display of his controlling attitude.

Moreover, he is okay with manhandling her, because that is a way to show her how to be full of “tameez”. It is not okay guys.

Some of the behaviors of the family members that I will also call out - is Ninad saying he would slap Ashwini, Ninad making comments on Ashwini’s physical appearance, using racist slurs, locking a mentally ill adult in the room, amongst others.

The problem is not the fact that this is being shown in the show, because there are family like that, there are MCPs like Ninad, there are high ranking officials, responsible for Nari suraksha and who turn monstrous behind closed doors. The problem is with the fact that this is shown as normal, that it will be all forgotten with a day or two worth of apologies. The problem is with the fact that whatever there is between SaiRat, is being promoted as romance - we are supposed to ‘understand’ Virat because all his anger comes from the fact that he wanted to have a nice lunch with his wife but could not. We are supposed to be okay with Virat manhandling Sai because he was having tears in his eyes while he held her hands firmly. We are supposed to be okay with Virat ill-treating Sai because we will have one episode full of Virat explaining his situation and wooing her. We are supposed to be okay with his sorry, when he doesn't mean mean it ( when he last said sorry to his mom). We are supposed to be okay, because SaiRat are the endgame and so, we only need to ship them together.

Had this show been about Sai finding her way out of this toxic marriage it would have sent a better message, but, because SaiRat is the endgame, it downplays the issues that have been portrayed to a great extent. I’ve said it before, the voice challenging societal issues should be as powerful as those promoting them are loud. (Which is why Shivani's, Aai's, Mohit's feeble stance does not work). Sai's voice, loud and clear, is powerful, but her stance in the future- forgiving him, returning to him when he is hurt, accepting all the torture that she will be met with, and even accepting his love and loving him are part of the problem. The very fact that she will be okay with it at the end because she loves him makes her own voice feeble, and her stance powerless.

And this is exactly where this show fails - because it shows you that the woman should be patient and change the man’s toxicity with love, it normalises abusive romance, it shows you no matter how strong a woman is, she will carve her self-respect because of love. It shows you that when you are going through the toxicity, you just have to wait for your partner to come around!

I know there is a separation ahead, I know also that Virat will apologise for a lot of things that he will do, I also know the fact that Virat is partly like that because he grew in that environment, I also know the fact that this is only a show, meant to entertain. However, an apology does not mean that whatever he has done should be forgotten. He might have grown up in a toxic environment, but he has also been trained to become an IPS, and so he must be able to recognise problematic behaviors. I`m not saying tackle them, but at least recognising them - merely giving a two sec shocked reaction every time someone abuses your wife is not enough for such a high ranking official.

Virat’s character development process seems to be in the reverse - I mean if you reverse watch from the latest episodes to the beginning - it may make more sense. Just like I would not want anyone to have a partner like Pakhi, I would also not want anyone to have a partner like Virat.

I know it is just a show - however, media's influence on us is very much real and has been well-documented, but I won’t go into that. Even a two mins video, a video game you play for entertainment, affects you in numerous ways, and so we can only guess the power and potential that a daily show may have. There are people sitting at home, going through this kind of toxicity and the fact that such a popular show is legitimising this kind of content in the name of romance creates a sort of false consciousness - thereby misleading them. I never ever thought I'd say this, but Sai forgiving Virat and SaiRat finding love and ending together, downplays the trauma that emotionally abused people feel.

To end, I just wanna thank each and everyone of you with whom I engaged here. I absolutely loved my time here, I loved discussing with you all after every epi,I loved hearing your contradictory opinions, I loved and will miss all the fun here. May we meet somewhere else, in another forum, in the future.

Until then, Adios Amigos!🤗

Disclaimer - This post is my personal opinion and is by no means meant to discourage you from watching the show. I just wanted to point out that whatever the show is promoting as romance is NOT OKAY. I just wanted to highlight that promoting abuse as romance is NOT OKAY.

👏👏

Very well written

Yes ITV glorifying physical violence to romance which I found always illogical coz kissi ko harm karke uspe aap pyar ka sticker nhi chipka sakte .

Mujhe aaj tak samaj nhi aaya Kabir singh ko romantic movie kyu kehte hain usme romance se related hai hi nhi phir bhi I saw craze for that movie .

Being virat Jabra fan I don't support his this week behaviour it was totally inhuman , mera bas chale to khud uske khilaf FIR kar doon , sai ke bas badi badi baatein hoti hain.

Jab virat sai ka hath nhi chhod raha tha tab I wanted sai to bite him or scratch his wrist with her nails or ye main kissi romantic or funny way nhi bol rahi , aapne aap ko free karane ke liye sai kuch bho kar sakti thi usse sab allowed tha .

Aap bilkul sahi kaha virat toxic personality hain bahut bada wala kameena hain par ye likhna bhul Gaye sai bhi toxic personality hi hain.

ITV kr d angry young men ka female version hain sai , FL hain to glorify ki jaati hai to no end, uski har galti ko justify kar diya jayega .

I'm happy makers showed a glimpse of real world in GC when people were no ready to be part of sai 's life after KJ death , Vittal mane to bhana tha asli vajah to sai chutkara pana tha . Virat question how KJ tolerate sai , C gang questioned how virat tolerate sai . People don't like to get related to problematic people ,sai ko khud puchna pad tha kya sabke liye problems create karti hoon , kissi answer nhi diya, kyu 3 saal mein sai se connect nhi ho paye ? Real life mein rishtey matlab ke ho hote hain .

Sai jaise log aapko real life mein mil jayenge aur aap unke muh pe bol ke jaoge ki tum badtameez ho tumko tameez nhi baat karne ki etc sadly real life kissi ko glorify nhi karti. Sai jaise insaan ko duniya boycott kar deti hain , duniya to kissi ki bakwas tolerate karti nhi phir vo sai , ho virat ya chavan parivar , sai follow tit4tat policy , duniya bhi issi policy follow karti hain vo bhi interest ke saath .

Sai ki toxic personality aapko dikh jayegi agar aap 18 saal carpet remove karoke to. Sai ka toxic isiliye nhi kaha jata ko vo FL hai aur FL kabhi galat nhi hoti.

Sandeep nahar actor committed suicide recently before that he described his wife's character ke baare mein bataya hai Aap vo video dekh lijiye .aapne toxicity ka mentioned kiya isiliye Sandeep nahar ka mentioned kiya , toxicity men ke saath bhi hoti hain unki wives ki taraf se.

Emon chatterjee was an emotional blackmailer of suicide from originals twice blackmailed chatterjee family of suicide to get her ways ab FL ne kiya to galat hoga nhi but it doesn't come in some mahan action

I regret not having video where I can prove how real world treat a person like sai . Aise character sirf tv pe hi glorify kiya ja sakta hain .

Yahi vajah hai I don't relate with this character coz I know d reality of these kind of characters as I did has encounter with such character.

Kya kare ye pura serial ho toxicity se bhara hua hain.

Sorry for my rant