Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 35

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vyapti thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


SP said Radha is mentioned in the vedas. She is not AFAIK. I won't claim to have read all 4 in entirety, so won't state with 100% certainty. I do know Radha is not emtnioned in Mahabharata, Bhagavatham, or Harivamsa.


Only in later puranas written AFTER Gita Govindam does she find mention.


If someone is stating Radha is mentioned in earlier texts, it is sensible to ask for citation. Not to some Internet article, to actual verse in text.

Yes it is sensible to ask for citations.


I was talking of the Veda point only. Logically if Radha is mentioned in the Vedas then it must be an interpolation.


Actually whether Radha existed or not is a matter of debate as mystifying as the Harappan Civilization.

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: vyapti

Yes it is sensible to ask for citations.


I was talking of the Veda point only. Logically if Radha is mentioned in the Vedas then it must be an interpolation.


Actually whether Radha existed or not is a matter of debate as mystifying as the Harappan Civilization.

That was the entire point of discussion here. None of us denied the existence or non existence of Radha. We were only saying that Radha isn't mentioned in earlier texts where SP said that she is mentioned in Vedas too. She said that Radha was mentioned in Rig Veda n Arthavaveda and also in Sreemad Bhagwatam and then cited some internet links mentioning that she is mentioned in these texts.


That's what the entire discussion is about. No one is challenging her belief in Radha but the challenge is to her claim that Radha is mentioned in the said texts, when we who have read these texts know that she isn't mentioned.

I believe that she is mentioned in these texts isn't a belief

vyapti thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

That was the entire point of discussion here. None of us denied the existence or non existence of Radha. We were only saying that Radha isn't mentioned in earlier texts where SP said that she is mentioned in Vedas too. She said that Radha was mentioned in Rig Veda n Arthavaveda and also in Sreemad Bhagwatam and then cited some internet links mentioning that she is mentioned in these texts.


That's what the entire discussion is about. No one is challenging her belief in Radha but the challenge is to her claim that Radha is mentioned in the said texts, when we who have read these texts know that she isn't mentioned.

I believe that she is mentioned in these texts isn't a belief


Yes I got that.


Actually the idea of scholarly citation is something that is difficult to understand. Even we did not understand that when we were new to research.


So misunderstandings happen sometimes.

Chiillii thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Radha is not mentioned in any of the four vedas.

I have read them all, did not find her. I am from a samvedi family. So we recite samveda in every religious ritual, from child birth to death...never read, never heard her or for that matter even Krishna.... It takes two hours to complete that recital.


Samveda hymns are dedicated Agni and Indra. Some of them (very few) dedicated Mitra Varuna, Soma (the amrita not Chandra the Moon), ashvins and 12 Aditya. One specific section is for Surya.


Below is the link for the english translation

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sv.htm


Again this has nothing to do with whether Radha existed or not.


Vedas pre date the period of Krishna avatar.


Vedas came several generations before Krishna.


They were orally recited, listened to memorized and passed on.


They may have been written down together with the puranas when writing developed in the Gupta period


But unlike Mahabharat or Ramayana or puranas.. Vedas recital was restricted and strictly monitored to prevent any deviation or interpolations. Which is done even today

People were not allowed to add anything to it or have their own versions. Unlike Purana which were free for all.


Do note Samveda does not mention Parvati /Kali/ Durga and Lakshmi also (It does mention saraswati the life giving river though, not Brahma's consort Saraswati)


Samveda mentions Indra's consort Sachi/Sri and Agni's consort Swaha, Ashwins consort Usha.


Once again to avoid misunderstanding.

This post only states Radha is not in Samveda or any veda. This post does not state Radha never existed. This post states that Radha is not in the vedas because vedas were composed much before Krishna avatar period and they managed to avoid later additions and interpolations


Some specific samveda following Hindus may also be Radha devotees and worship her. That is their choice and I respect that.


Samvedi recite samveda in every religious function, that may also include any pooja to any chosen deity.


My family worships Shiva and Parvati. So during Shivaratri celebrations also Samveda is recited. But Shiva and Parvati are not mentioned in Samveda. Shiva Purana and Devi Mahatmayam is recited which do have Shiva and Parvati.

This is just an example to clarify the post.

No offense intended for Radha devotees



vyapti thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Radha is not mentioned in any of the four vedas.

I have read them all, did not find her. I am from a samvedi family. So we recite samveda in every religious ritual, from child birth to death...never read, never heard her or for that matter even Krishna.... It takes two hours to complete that recital.


Samveda hymns are dedicated Agni and Indra. Some of them (very few) dedicated Mitra Varuna, Soma (the amrita not Chandra the Moon), ashvins and 12 Aditya. One specific section is for Surya.


Below is the link for the english translation

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sv.htm


Again this has nothing to do with whether Radha existed or not.


Vedas pre date the period of Krishna avatar.


Vedas came several generations before Krishna.


They were orally recited, listened to memorized and passed on.


They may have been written down together with the puranas when writing developed in the Gupta period


But unlike Mahabharat or Ramayana or puranas.. Vedas recital was restricted and strictly monitored to prevent any deviation or interpolations. Which is done even today

People were not allowed to add anything to it or have their own versions. Unlike Purana which were free for all.


Do note Samveda does not mention Parvati /Kali/ Durga and Lakshmi also (It does mention saraswati the life giving river though, not Brahma's consort Saraswati)


Samveda mentions Indra's consort Sachi/Sri and Agni's consort Swaha, Ashwins consort Usha.


Once again to avoid misunderstanding.

This post only states Radha is not in Samveda or any veda. This post does not state Radha never existed. This post states that Radha is not in the vedas because vedas were composed much before Krishna avatar period and they managed to avoid later additions and interpolations


Some specific samveda following Hindus may also be Radha devotees and worship her. That is their choice and I respect that.


Samvedi recite samveda in every religious function, that may also include any pooja to any chosen deity.


My family worships Shiva and Parvati. So during Shivaratri celebrations also Samveda is recited. But Shiva and Parvati are not mentioned in Samveda. Shiva Purana and Devi Mahatmayam is recited which do have Shiva and Parvati.

This is just an example to clarify the post.

No offense intended for Radha devotees




Is not Sri-Lakshmi consort of Narayana? Or is it that at earlier times Sri was used for Sachi and at later times it was used for Lakshmi? I am curious.

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: vyapti


Is not Sri-Lakshmi consort of Narayana? Or is it that at earlier times Sri was used for Sachi and at later times it was used for Lakshmi? I am curious.


I'd like to know, too. I haven't seen Sachi referred to as Shri. As per Visnu Purana, Indra did want her, but she chose to go to Narayana.


Although the Lakshmi mythology does have her with asura kings first. From there (as Pulomi), she went to the suras. I believe she was then associated with Indra, finally with Vishnu which got set in concrete.


But Sachi and Shri were not the same as I understand it. The name Pulomi does confuse things, though.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 4 years ago
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago

Sri or Shri, is used for goddess Lakshmi & goddess Maha Tripursundari.

Shri vidya sect is followed by many. Shri chakra is used in her worship. This is a Satwik tantra sect.

I would like to explain understanding of tantra here.

Tantra is nothing but a systamatic, ritualistic system of worship. Involving a yantra & mantras.

Shri Vidya's highest mantra is given for the final liberation. It is said only in one's last birth, one is destined to follow this mantra.


Devi Bhagavat- skandh 9- adhyaya 50 is about Durga & Radha.

Shri Narayan tells Narad,

Now, am explaining a secret mentioned in Veda, which is highly secretive.

Mula Prakriti rupa, Supreme knowledge rupa, Bhuvaneshwari, created the Universe. At that time, samashti -vyashti prana's adhisthatri Radha devi & samashti- vyayshti's intelect's adhisthatri Durga devi, appeared initially.


To be continued.

Edited by mnx12 - 4 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/vp/vp044.htm


. Then, seated on a full-blown lotus, and holding a water-lily in her hand, the goddess Śrí, radiant with beauty, rose from the waves. The great sages, enraptured, hymned her with the song dedicated to her praise 7. Viśwavasu and other heavenly quiristers sang, and Ghritáchí and other celestial nymphs danced before her. Gangá and other holy streams attended for her ablutions; and the elephants of the skies, taking up their pure waters in vases of gold, poured them over the goddess, the queen of the universal world. The sea of milk in person presented her with a wreath of never-fading flowers; and the artist of the gods (Viswakermá) decorated her person with heavenly ornaments. Thus bathed, attired, and adorned, the goddess, in the view of the celestials, cast herself upon the breast of Hari; and there reclining, turned her eyes upon the deities, who were inspired with rapture by her gaze. Not so the Daityas, who, with Viprachitti at their head, were filled with indignation, as Vishńu turned away from them, and they were abandoned by the goddess of prosperity (Lakshmí.)

The powerful and indignant Daityas then forcibly seized the Amrita-cup, that was in the hand of Dhanwantari: but Vishńu, assuming a female form, fascinated and deluded them; and recovering the Amrita

p. 77

from them, delivered it to the gods. Śakra and the other deities quaffed the ambrosia. The incensed demons, grasping their weapons, fell upon them; but the gods, into whom the ambrosial draught had infused new vigour, defeated and put their host to flight, and they fled through the regions of space, and plunged into the subterraneous realms of Pátála. The gods thereat greatly rejoiced, did homage to the holder of the discus and mace, and resumed their reign in heaven. The sun shone with renovated splendour, and again discharged his appointed task; and the celestial luminaries again circled, oh best of Munis, in their respective orbits. Fire once more blazed aloft, beautiful in splendour; and the minds of all beings were animated by devotion. The three worlds again were rendered happy by prosperity; and Indra, the chief of the gods, was restored to power 8. Seated upon his throne, and once more in

p. 78

heaven, exercising sovereignty over the gods, Śakra thus eulogized the goddess who bears a lotus in her hand:--

"I bow down to Śrí, the mother of all beings, seated on her lotus throne, with eyes like full-blown lotuses, reclining on the breast of Vishńu. ...



Paráśara proceeded.--Thus, Maitreya, in former times the goddess Śrí conferred these boons upon the king of the gods, being pleased by his adorations; but her first birth was as the daughter of Bhrigu by Khyáti: it was at a subsequent period that she was produced from the sea, at the churning of the ocean by the demons and the gods, to obtain ambrosia


https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/vp/vp045.htm


PARÁŚARA.--Lakshmí, the bride of Vishńu, was the daughter of Bhrigu by Khyáti. They had also two sons, Dhátri and Vidhátri, who married the two daughters of the illustrious Meru, Áyati and Niryati; and had by them each a son, named Práńa and Mrikańd́a. The son of the latter was Márkańd́eya, from whom Vedaśiras was born 1. The son of Práńa was named Dyutimat, and his son was Rájavat; after whom, the race of Bhrigu became infinitely multiplied.

Sambhúti, the wife of Maríchi, gave birth to Paurnamása, whose sons were Virajas and Sarvaga. I shall hereafter notice his other descendants, when I give a more particular account of the race of Maríchi 2.

The wife of Angiras, Smriti, bore daughters named Siniválí, Kuhu,

p. 83

[paragraph continues]Ráká, and Anumati (phases of the moon 3). Anasúyá, the wife of Atri, was the mother of three sinless sons, Soma (the moon), Durvásas, and the ascetic Dattátreya 4. Pulastya had, by Príti, a son called in a former birth, or in the Swáyambhuva Manwantara, Dattoli, who is now known as the sage Agastya 5. Kshamá, the wife of the patriarch Pulaha, was the mother of three sons, Karmasa, Arvarívat, and Sahishńu 6. The wife of Kratu, Sannati, brought forth the sixty thousand Bálakhilyas, pigmy sages, no bigger than a joint of the thumb, chaste, pious, resplendent as the rays of the sun 7. Vaśisht́ha had seven sons by his wife Urjjá, Rajas, Gátra, Úrddhabáhu, Savana, Anagha, Sutapas, and Śukra, the seven pure sages 8. The Agni named Abhimání, who is the eldest born of

p. 84

[paragraph continues]Brahmá, had, by Swáhá, three sons of surpassing brilliancy, Pávaka, Pavamána, and Śuchi, who drinks up water: they had forty-five sons, who, with the original son of Brahmá and his three descendants, constitute the forty-nine fires 9. The progenitors (Pitris), who, as I have mentioned, were created by Brahmá, were the Agnishwáttas and Varhishads; the former being devoid of, and the latter possessed of, fires 10. By them, Swadhá had two daughters, Mená and Dháraní, who were both acquainted with theological truth, and both addicted to religious meditation; both accomplished in perfect wisdom, and adorned with all estimable qualities 11. Thus has been explained the progeny of the

p. 85

daughters of Daksha 12. He who with faith recapitulates the account, shall never want offspring.

Chiillii thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


I'd like to know, too. I haven't seen Sachi referred to as Shri. As per Visnu Purana, Indra did want her, but she chose to go to Narayana.


The word "Shri / Shree" means prosperity.

The woman is always deemed a personification of prosperity due to her ability to give birth to a child and bring to the world a new life.


Shri is a title / an epithet


Also a wife is considered as a man's power in our scriptures. Shiva and Shakti.


In Vedas 95 percent of the hymns are dedicated to Indra. Vedas worship the forces of nature ... Wind Rain Fire Water and Earth. Indra represents Rain, that was a crucial requirement for prosperity in a agricultural society. A good rain meant a good harvest, a good economy and prosperous farmer.

So when Indra is worshipped so is his power of prosperity represented through his wife Sachi who is also called as Shri


Similarly as Vishnu worship became popular he was declared the sustainer / Palanhar of earth. He therefore got two wives - earth (Bhudevi) because he sustains earth. And material wealth/ money/ jewels/property - (Lakshmi).


By the time Vishnu became popular Indra became unpopular and secondary so the title of Shri moved to Lakshmi from Sachi. Now Lakshmi is Sridevi.


There is also the story of rishi bhrigu's curse to Indra due to which shri leaves him and then he is forced into a truce with Asuras for samudra manthan from.which Lakshmi emerges and marries Vishnu.


However Sachi of Indra doesnt go anywhere and returns to Indra and proceeds to have a son jayanta and daughter devasena with him


So Sachi is not Lakshmi. They both have been addressed as Shri for their husbands in various scriptures.


Draupadi in Mahabharat is also called as Shri, Not just that Arjun is addressed as incarnation of Nara who was himself incarnation of Vishnu.


So many divergent views exist as to whether Draupadi Shri is lakshmi because Arjun is Nara/Vishnu or She is Sachi wife of Indra because the five Pandavas were five Indra.

Popular view is she is incarnation of Sachi also addressed as Swarga Shree.


Infact if you would check any older wedding cards the traditional ones of grandfathers generation male hosts would have the title shriish or shirish (which got shortened over time to Shri

Shriish means husband of shri and is indicative of a married man while kumar means unmarried.

Women who were married were addressed Shree / Shrimati or Subhagyawati or Bhagyawan. Unmarried woman were called sukumary or sukanya


Shree and Su are synonyms and root words meaning prosperity.


So Lakshmi and Sachi were different charachters with different origin stories and life narrative but both are addressed as Shri because they were shree for their respective husbands. In many puranas to avoid any confusion Lakshmi is addressed as Shreedevi and Sachi as Swargashree


Draupadi was Shree of Pandavas.

mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago

Both of them inspire jeevas. Without their grace, moksha is rarely possible.

6 lettered Radha devi's mantra is considered a chintamani (wish full filling) mantra.

In Goloka, among Rasa mandala, Krishna received this mantra first, followed by Vishnu, Brhma, Dharma...

A Vaishnva needs to worship Radha first, then Krishna. Since Radha is adhisthatri of Krishna's prana, Krishna is always with Her.

Shri Narayan is rishi of mantras given in skandha 9 (except Durga devi), devata is Radha, Gayatri is chanda, Om is beeja, Bhuvaneshwari is shakti.

Then Narayan explains dhyana of Devi Radha.

The process to be followed is mentioned in Samaveda i e- 6 aavritis of mula mantra followed by shadanga nyasas.

Procedure of worship with Rajopachara is explained after this description. Followed by stotra of Radha devi.


Interested people can read this chapter from Shri Devi Bhagavat.

Edited by mnx12 - 4 years ago

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