Saif : " we will justify abduction of Sita and war with ram" - Page 12

Originally posted by: Aanandaa

We can debate about anything but there are some undebatable things like a guy who instigated for a woman to be disrobed and raped shouldn’t NEVER be whitewashed, let alone be idolized.

A guy who abducts the wife and keeps her captive for years,when his beef was with actually the husband should NEVER be justified, regardless of how accomplished he happens to be otherwise!

As for the main protagonists of MB, its Yudhi, Duryodhana and Panchali. Arjuna and Lord Krishna are the heros!

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

You very probably do not see Mahabharata the same way as me if you think Subhadra's marriage was not of any importance or Arjuna simply "gets to be Nara" to his descendant. 😆

So of course our opinions differ. It's okay. Peace. This thread is not the place to continue this argument anyway.

I have seen people going Karna vs Arjuna all the time....& my belief has always been it was the Krishna - Arjuna duo. The Nara - Narayana pair. And I still stand firm on it. This argument about Yudhishthira was a new experience to me.

But Lord Krishna is Parbrahm, so everything on the mind and material plane becomes him, all other Gods & Goddesses are his manifestations. He is Kaalpurush.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

By God. It isn't as though Eklavya wouldn't have known Drona was the guru for a rival kingdom. 😆Eklavya still went ahead and asked. When he failed to get it, he stole it. Yes, that is espionage whether he revered Drona or not, whether he asked first or not.

The spy was in enemy territory. What do you think would've happened if he refused a thumb?

It's not theory. 1. Eklavya was born Yadava, to Krishna's uncle. 2. Eklavya was adopted by Hiranyadhanus, a Nishadha king allied with Jarasandha. 3. Drona was the Kuru teacher. 4. Kuru kings and Jarasandha were enemies 5. Eklavya went to Drona in Hastinapuri to learn military tactics and weaponry. 6. Drona refused. 7. Eklavya then STAYED around and "taught himself" which is impossible to do unless he were spying. 8. He got caught 9. Drona had a responsibility to Hastinapuri 10. He asked for Eklavya's thumb. 11. Eklavya had no choice but to give it up because the alternative would be death as he was in enemy territory.

Out of this #7 and #11 are analysis. The rest are all evidenced by text.

Bold: It's pure extrapolation. If this was the case, then Dronacharya could have him charged outright with espionage, why play to his emotions?

Also you didn't answer my points about him building Dronacharya's statue and worshipping it. Also, if he was indeed doing espionage, why would he advertise it around? Answer this please.

I have no idea what’s going on in this thread.

Originally posted by: Harley_Quinn

Ramayan from Ravan's POV would be interesting. If we have it from Sita's POV, then nothing wrong from having it from Ravan.

But of course this is not possible in a country of snowflakes .

Every snowflake is different from the others.

Originally posted by: Mahisa22

Bold: It's pure extrapolation. If this was the case, then Dronacharya could have him charged outright with espionage, why play to his emotions?

Also you didn't answer my points about him building Dronacharya's statue and worshipping it. Also, if he was indeed doing espionage, why would he advertise it around? Answer this please.

Eklavya didn't advertise it. He was caught. 2 diff things.

Let's say you're 100% right in you assertions Eklavya was an outcast (he wasn't), and he was there merely for thirst for knowledge (somehow imagining a rival kingdom's guru would simply teach him), and that he was there without the knowledge of his father (a prince, wandering the forest alone! 😆).

Let's say he got caught with all of your assertions accurate.

He was still the prince of an enemy kingdom, now in possession of military secrets.

What would a responsible guru do?

IMO, Drona should've marched Eklavya to Bheeshma and let the patriarch mete out punishment.

Eklavya got off lightly.

Originally posted by: Mahisa22

The thing is, no ISI agent would ever outright go to the NDA and ask for knowledge. This is the most glaring fallacy of your argument. Like I said, had Ekalavya intended to spy, then he wouldn't have built Dronacharya's statue and worshipped it. Spies don't do that. Also why would he cut off his thumb as guru-dakshina if he wanted to spy? Does that make ANY sense?

This theory is pure speculation at best and has zero proof to back it up.

I kinda skimmed through the argument and I have to disagree with you on your POV that Eklavya was a victim of the caste crime. Acharya Drona was an exclusive teacher for the Princes of the Hastinapura and no matter how much Eklavya or Karna wanted to be a part of his esteemed class of Students, they simply didn’t stand a chance. He still went ahead and stole the knowledge which is absolutely not acceptable, regardless of which caste or creed he belonged to. Later on, the liberals and queer story tellers tried to give the story various dimensions but we shouldn’t disregard the fundamental point that Eklavya wasn’t a Prince of Hastinapura and hence didn’t belong.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Eklavya didn't advertise it. He was caught. 2 diff things.

Let's say you're 100% right in you assertions Eklavya was an outcast (he wasn't), and he was there merely for thirst for knowledge (somehow imagining a rival kingdom's guru would simply teach him), and that he was there without the knowledge of his father (a prince, wandering the forest alone! 😆).

Let's say he got caught with all of your assertions accurate.

He was still the prince of an enemy kingdom, now in possession of military secrets.

What would a responsible guru do?

IMO, Drona should've marched Eklavya to Bheeshma and let the patriarch mete out punishment.

Eklavya got off lightly.

How did he get caught? Because he was going around telling people he was Dronacharya's student. That's how Arjun came to know and ran off to complain to Drona. Would a spy advertise what he was doing?

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

100%.

Sadly, crimes against women are not considered as important. And we wonder why said crimes don't go down.

I'd add Bheema and Panchali to heroes list. Disagree that Panchali was protag though she did make some key decisions.

Fosho.👍🏼My personal favorite, and apparently even Lord Krishna’s, happens to be Vidhura though. The only one who NEVER uttered or done a wrong deed and always took the side of the Dharma, in the entire Epic! ⭐️

Originally posted by: Mahisa22

How did he get caught? Because he was going around telling people he was Dronacharya's student. That's how Arjun came to know and ran off to complain to Drona. Would a spy advertise what he was doing?

Fact in text - Drona refused to teach Eklavya

Another fact - Eklavya stole the info

Even if he weren't spying intentionally- I don't know😆, maybe he was too naïve to imagine it as theft of military secrets - fact 3 - he did.

Fact 4 - He wasn't advertising it. Kuru princes happened on him.

Fact 5 - Arjuna went to Drona to inform him. Appropriately! 😆 Arjuna was a prince of the kingdom. It was the responsible thing to do. He didn't complain. He reported. There is a difference.

Fact 6 - Drona confronted Eklavya, meted out punishment and made sure the knowledge could not be taught to Hastinapuri's enemies.

I think I'm going to stop here because at this point, I'm saying the same things over and over and having everything fall on deaf ears.