Mahabharat Retelecast Discussion Thread 5 - Page 25

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Satyavati as adopted daughter of fisherman chief was Nishada

Then he was the son of a Brahmin dad and Nishada mom (I doubt Nishadas are Shudra) but even if they are Vyas wouldn't be Shudra, just because of mom's caste

Anyway Vidur was legally the son of Vichitraveer, born due to the Niyog of his Dasi, so if his mom was a Kshatriya too, he would have been a Kshatriya.

For him to be a Kshatta his mom should have been a Shudra

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Satyavati as adopted daughter of fisherman chief was Nishada

But Satyavati's real father was Uparichara Vasu who was also a king. It is said that he sent his semen through parrot's mouth to his king but unfortunately parrot dropped it into a river and it went inside a fish's (who was an Apsara) mouth. So when Dashraj captured the fish, he found two babies, i.e. Satyavati and her brother. So when Dashraj took them to Uparichara, he accepted the son and rejected the girl so Dashraj adopted Satyavati. It is said on the basis of that, he wanted Satyavati's son to be king.

Originally posted by: Andy3456

But Satyavati's real father was Uparichara Vasu who was also a king. It is said that he sent his semen through parrot's mouth to his king but unfortunately parrot dropped it into a river and it went inside a fish's (who was an Apsara) mouth. So when Dashraj captured the fish, he found two babies, i.e. Satyavati and her brother. So when Dashraj took them to Uparichara, he accepted the son and rejected the girl so Dashraj adopted Satyavati. It is said on the basis of that, he wanted Satyavati's son to be king.

Once adopted, kid belongs to adopted father's caste. So Satyavati was Nishada. Parashara was brahmana. Now, Manusmriti says Brahmana father + Shudra mother = Nishada child. I don't know how it computes when Brahmana father + Nishada mother have sons. And I don't know how Satyavati's kids from Shanthanu ended up being called Kshatriya😆, but they were.

One thing I know for sure is that everyone called Vidura Kshatta (except Panchali and Krishna IIRC). Kshatta definitely has Shudra father and Kshatriya mother. Therefore, Vyasa had to have been considered Shudra.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Then he was the son of a Brahmin dad and Nishada mom (I doubt Nishadas are Shudra) but even if they are Vyas wouldn't be Shudra, just because of mom's caste

Anyway Vidur was legally the son of Vichitraveer, born due to the Niyog of his Dasi, so if his mom was a Kshatriya too, he would have been a Kshatriya.

For him to be a Kshatta his mom should have been a Shudra

I posted a Manusmriti link listing castes in one of my prior posts.

Brahmana father + Shudra mother = Nishada child.

Shudra father + Kshatriya mother = Kshatta child.

Vidura was called Kshatta. Therefore, Vyasa had to have been Shudra. We know Parashara was Brahmana. Therefore, Satyavati had to have been considered low caste. Nishadas are supposed to be in charge of killing fish.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Once adopted, kid belongs to adopted father's caste. So Satyavati was Nishada. Parashara was brahmana. Now, Manusmriti says Brahmana father + Shudra mother = Nishada child. I don't know how it computes when Brahmana father + Nishada mother have sons. And I don't know how Satyavati's kids from Shanthanu ended up being called Kshatriya😆, but they were.

One thing I know for sure is that everyone called Vidura Kshatta (except Panchali and Krishna IIRC). Kshatta definitely has Shudra father and Kshatriya mother. Therefore, Vyasa had to have been considered Shudra.

Is Kshatri and Kshatta the same?

Shudra dad and Kshatriya mom have Kshatri sons, Kshatta could be something else.

Definitely Brahmin dad + Nishada mom wouldn't have Shudra sons, because although a low caste, Shudra is a pure caste and pure caste could not be out of a hybrid union.

Aside why would Vidur be considered a son of Vyas is something I don't understand, when he clearly was the son of Vichitraveer's Dasi born out of Niyog.

He was kept in the palace and referred to as the brother of Pandu+Dhritrashtra, so he has to be legally Vichitraveer's son.

By the way the above link does mention that the Sutas are given the duty of horse and Chariot management

So I guess Karna actually did have some caste discrimination afterall

47. To Sutas (belongs) the management of horses and of chariots; to Ambashthas, the art of healing; to Vaidehakas, the service of women; to Magadhas, trade;

is the age of draupadi and duryodhan mention who is elder b/w 2?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Is Kshatri and Kshatta the same?

Shudra dad and Kshatriya mom have Kshatri sons, Kshatta could be something else.

Definitely Brahmin dad + Nishada mom wouldn't have Shudra sons, because although a low caste, Shudra is a pure caste and pure caste could not be out of a hybrid union.

Aside why would Vidur be considered a son of Vyas is something I don't understand, when he clearly was the son of Vichitraveer's Dasi born out of Niyog.

He was kept in the palace and referred to as the brother of Pandu+Dhritrashtra, so he has to be legally Vichitraveer's son.

Dasi wasn't wife or concubine of Vichitraveerya to be considered his Niyog son. Vidura was considered Vyasa's son.

Kshatri and Kshatta are the same. Both terms are used to describe Vidura in diff versions. Even Indian Census from 1800s says so. There is also an Ancient Voices article on it (links below).

https://books.google.com/books?id=dDRRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=kshatta+kshatri&source=bl&ots=tSP1hKNnoB&sig=ACfU3U1ZucRVSQAYD7GI9H3a7d_fcrFZuQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQpOHpt7XqAhXOF80KHeiSDCUQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=kshatta%20kshatri&f=false

http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-video-mbh:episode6#toc21

If Vidura had to be Kshatri/Kshatta, Vyasa had to be Shudra.

Re: pure caste. After so many generations, they then turned to pure caste. Don't ask how. They just did😆.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

By the way the above link does mention that the Sutas are given the duty of horse and Chariot management

So I guess Karna actually did have some caste discrimination afterall

47. To Sutas (belongs) the management of horses and of chariots; to Ambashthas, the art of healing; to Vaidehakas, the service of women; to Magadhas, trade;

they weren't limited to it. It was just what most of them did.

Originally posted by: Mages

is the age of draupadi and duryodhan mention who is elder b/w 2?

It is said that Duryodhan and Bheem was born on same day. Bheem followed by Duryodhan. So obviously Duryodhan be elder than Draupadi but in relationship Draupadi will be elder as she was Yudhisthir's wife.