Mahabharat Retelecast Discussion Thread 3 - Page 36

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

That is exactly what he says to Gandhari. That she was blaming HIM for HER faults.

I know he said but still that curse came true thou krishna was not wrong, I know yadav clan was not saints either, so I called it injustice.

Why did Gandhari called duryodhana wife buffalo ?

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

I know he said but still that curse came true thou krishna was not wrong, I know yadav clan was not saints either, so I called it injustice.

Why did Gandhari called duryodhana wife buffalo ?

I read it 4 or 5 years ago. Forgot the context. I only remember thinking Gandhari was a typical Ekta Kapoor saas. Horrible woman.

Originally posted by: naq5

well I dont see these as faults in her.

Re her relationship with pandavas there are misgivings and complaints in every relationship. She had logical reasons to be angry with them. Discontented with them

I see nothing wrong in her being strong too.

The only thing I found odd was sacrificing her own children for her justice. But then she would not know that they would die.still a war brings a lot of risk with it. It brings many causalities. innocent soldiers who were not part of their family politics were killed too. There was almost no one left to dwell in happiness from the good rule of yudishthir. The justice way could have been personal with only the karuravas karna and shakuni being punished. Even vikarna who actually stood up for her was killed. If the war was to acquire land back which was not given to them and was unfair, I understand but if it is projected as being for the greater good or as a justice for what happened with panchali I do not see a greater good with so many people dying and her own family ie children killed

Recommend reading 5 scenes.

1. Krishna/Panchali conversation in Kamyaka. She details all the crimes done by the enemy and finally states how they could do it even to someone of HER stature. Star MBh gave this line to Krishna. If they could do it to her, imagine them in power. In epic, it was Panchali who said it to Krishna.

2. Panchali's discourse with Yudhishtira in Kamyaka. He assigns everything to destiny, and she tells him over and over that blaming destiny is not the answer. Their duty is "karma," and their karma as kshatriyas was just rule which included punishment for crimes. She agrees with Yudhishtira that forgiveness is good but only under specific circumstances. She makes it clear that forgiveness is reserved for an enemy WHO REPENTS. For her pains, Yudhishtira calls her an atheist. Finally, Vyasa comes and agrees with what Panchali said without even giving an explanation (basically, war is needed), and Yudhishtira concurs!😆 So yeah... her point was that it was their duty.

3. Post Jayadratha. She firmly tells the Pandavas any enemy who would go as far as to abduct a woman with intend o rape needs to be put to death. Yudhishtira disagrees. Pandavas split the difference. In retrospect, she was right. This perhaps was what prompted Arjuan to make a vow to kill Jayadratha. Perhaps he remembered what Panchali said. Perhaps he realized Abhimanyu would have been alive had they followed her instructions,

4. Keechaka. Panchali goes to Virat for help, an when he refuses, she scolds him on the duties of thing.

5. Udyoga Parva conversation with Krishna. She again tells him the duties of rulers. She actually says it would be a sin not to punish UNREPENTED crimes. She also reminds him of the assault on her.

____________________________________

Her conversations make it clear she believed the assault on her indicated the enemy's unfitness to rule. She clearly believed she had the responsibility of punishing them. An argument can be made whether one assault is indicative. She lists all their crimes to show how far the enemy is willing to go to obtain power.

It wasn't personal justice.

Even if it were... one of the arguments I have heard is this: was one woman's trauma worth it? My answer is two-fold. As Panchali says, the enemy was unrepentant. Which means as rulers, they were not prepared to dole punishment for such crimes. Which means the system was rotten and needed to come down. What is the magic number where it becomes not all right to perpetuate the rotten system which let rape and murder continue? Remember, these were the rulers themselves committing the assault. What would be the number under the circumstances? 1 million rapes? 100,000? 100? Isn't one enough when it's a ruler?

Yes, there were ordinary soldiers as well. But there were the lame and the old who came to fight on Pandava side. Clearly, they saw injustice on the other side, enough to move them to fight. So while I'm willing to buy Kaurava soldiers had no choice to some extent, there WERE people who exercised that choice and went to the Pandavas. Also, the lives of the women assaulted were surely not less important than the lives of the soldiers.

Also, remember Lakshmana. Her rape was forgiven by her family and apparently by herself. See what eventually happened to Yadavas. Because of Samba, one entire clan perished. If Suyodhana had punished Samba, if he'd been willing to go to war for his daughter, then perhaps the extended clan would've been left alive.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Recommend reading 5 scenes.

1. Krishna/Panchali conversation in Kamyaka. She details all the crimes done by the enemy and finally states how they could do it even to someone of HER stature. Star MBh gave this line to Krishna. If they could do it to her, imagine them in power. In epic, it was Panchali who said it to Krishna.

2. Panchali's discourse with Yudhishtira in Kamyaka. He assigns everything to destiny, and she tells him over and over that blaming destiny is not the answer. Their duty is "karma," and their karma as kshatriyas was just rule which included punishment for crimes. She agrees with Yudhishtira that forgiveness is good but only under specific circumstances. She makes it clear that forgiveness is reserved for an enemy WHO REPENTS. For her pains, Yudhishtira calls her an atheist. Finally, Vyasa comes and agrees with what Panchali said without even giving an explanation (basically, war is needed), and Yudhishtira concurs!😆 So yeah... her point was that it was their duty.

3. Post Jayadratha. She firmly tells the Pandavas any enemy who would go as far as to abduct a woman with intend o rape needs to be put to death. Yudhishtira disagrees. Pandavas split the difference. In retrospect, she was right. This perhaps was what prompted Arjuan to make a vow to kill Jayadratha. Perhaps he remembered what Panchali said. Perhaps he realized Abhimanyu would have been alive had they followed her instructions,

4. Keechaka. Panchali goes to Virat for help, an when he refuses, she scolds him on the duties of thing.

5. Udyoga Parva conversation with Krishna. She again tells him the duties of rulers. She actually says it would be a sin not to punish UNREPENTED crimes. She also reminds him of the assault on her.

____________________________________

Her conversations make it clear she believed the assault on her indicated the enemy's unfitness to rule. She clearly believed she had the responsibility of punishing them. An argument can be made whether one assault is indicative. She lists all their crimes to show how far the enemy is willing to go to obtain power.

It wasn't personal justice.

Even if it were... one of the arguments I have heard is this: was one woman's trauma worth it? My answer is two-fold. As Panchali says, the enemy was unrepentant. Which means as rulers, they were not prepared to dole punishment for such crimes. Which means the system was rotten and needed to come down. What is the magic number where it becomes not all right to perpetuate the rotten system which let rape and murder continue? 1 million rapes? 100,000? 100? Isn't one enough?

Also, remember Lakshmana. Her rape was forgiven by her family and apparently by herself. See what eventually happened to Yadavas. Because of Samba, one entire clan perished. If Suyodhana had punished Samba, if he'd been willing to go to war for his daughter, then perhaps the extended clan would've been left alive.

Was Lakshmana really r***ed??????

I have read many posts on quora praising Draupadi's political acumen. She was believed to be very well read & knowledgeable. And of course belonged to a powerful dynasty like the Panchals. It's kind of sad she gets either romanticized or blamed for the war. I totally adore her. One of the most powerful ladies of the holy text.

Originally posted by: Andy3456

Was Lakshmana really r***ed??????

Krishna's son r***d her? 😲

Originally posted by: Armu4eva

I have read many posts on quora praising Draupadi's political acumen. She was believed to be very well read & knowledgeable. And of course belonged to a powerful dynasty like the Panchals. It's kind of sad she gets either romanticized or blamed for the war. I totally adore her. One of the most powerful ladies of the holy text.

Yup. It's said that she had a good knowledge on Economics and she was even the finance minister of Indraprastha.

Yes, Samba raped Lakshmana.

Krishna refused to go to his son's rescue. Balram eventually did. Suyodhana agreed to marry her to Lakshmana.

The same Samba went on to cause the destruction of his entire clan.

Originally posted by: Andy3456

Was Lakshmana really r***ed??????

Probably not actually r**ed although wouldn't be shocked if she actually was, but was definitely in a process of it, Duryodhan reached the spot and somehow stopped it

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

My krishna Krishnaa duo are just perfect ❤️ that kite flying scenes is one my favourite other being their first meet. Also when krishna puts a comforting hand on drapaudi s Swamyvaar in vivah mandap. I love these tender moment between them 😳. Poorabh are perfect krishna Krishnaa duo

It's a beautiful scene and PooRabh are amazing

But BRC MB had a beautiful dialogue in a similar scene where Krishna had said that he would repay each thread of the cloth piece that Drau tied on his finger. I wish SP MB had kept that dialogue.