Daas and Dasi - Page 3

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

FYI.Your link goes to Udyoga Parva, not Virat Parva. But I know which scene you're talking about.

There is no Vallava caste.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu/manu10.htm

Vallava was the NAME adopted by Bheema.

1. It's in the same paragraph cited in the above post.

2. Actually the link you posted went to Uluka's insults which also cited Vallava as name, not caste.

3.'O foremost of kings, I am

p. 15

a cook, Vallava by name. I am skilled in dressing dishes. Do thou employ me in the kitchen!'"

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04008.htm

__________________________

Whoever called it a caste is wrong. Or it's another of those suthaputhra attempts. KMG has freely translated pranaya which means love as jealousy. So why not this as well? I will let you know after I check the corresponding Sanskrit lines on Sacred Texts.

Also, same scene from English CE has none of it.

Vol 4, 614(18) - ‘Droupadi said, “O descendant of the Bharata lineage! I will now tell you about my greatunhappiness. I am telling you this out of great misery and you should not be angry with me. Iam bereft of my senses when you fight with tigers, buffaloes and lions in the inner quartersand Kaikeyi19 watches you. On seeing me unconscious, Kaikeyi will arise and tell her women,‘I think this affection is born out of this sweet-smiling one living with the cook and shesorrows when he fights with these immensely brave beings. Sairandhri is beautiful in formand Ballava is extremely handsome. The minds of women are impossible to fathom. But it

seems to me that they are made for each other. Sairandhri is always overcome by pitybecause they happily live together. They have lived in this royal household for the sameduration of time.’ Through such words, she always makes me known. When she sees meangered, she suspects that I am attached to you. When she utters such words, I am overtakenby great grief. I am immersed in sorrow over Yudhishthira and I cannot bear to be alive.

Thank You for explaining

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Thank You for explaining

Nora, did a little bit of asking around on this. The Vallava caste part is not there in Southern recension either.

That part looks like an interpolation from Nilakantha as both KMG and Gita Press used his work.

Nilakantha is the one of those who kept the nonexistent suthaputhra comment at Panchali swayamavara, so we can easily guess at the warped thought behind the interpolation.

In case you didn't know, that comment is present in exactly 4 out of the 1600+ manuscripts of ONLY the Northern recension. Southern recension bluntly states Karna failed. Some southern versions say he failed because Krishna had the bow strings chewed through (sabotaged). Non Indian versions do not have it either.

So when someone keeps a sentence like that in spite of all evidence to the contrary, you know something's up.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Nora, did a little bit of asking around on this. The Vallava caste part is not there in Southern recension either.

That part looks like an interpolation from Nilakantha as both KMG and Gita Press used his work.

Nilakantha is the one of those who kept the nonexistent suthaputhra comment at Panchali swayamavara, so we can easily guess at the warped thought behind the interpolation.

In case you didn't know, that comment is present in exactly 4 out of the 1600+ manuscripts of ONLY the Northern recension. Southern recension bluntly states Karna failed. Some southern versions say he failed because Krishna had the bow strings chewed through (sabotaged). Non Indian versions do not have it either.

So when someone keeps a sentence like that in spite of all evidence to the contrary, you know something's up.

So, it was one more attempt at maligning Draupadi by writers, sucks that they couldn't tolerate a strong woman

On a side note Yudhishtir's disguise was Kanka a Brahmana minister of Indraprasth from Vyagrapada gotra. Who used to play dice with the emperor.

Yudhishitir was already famous for terribly losing in dice. He learned how to play it well from Rishi Vrihadshawa during exile. His demeanor was well known to be more like a Brahmana than Kshatriya and hence he chose to be this

Arjuna was famous as THE ultimate man, the undefeated warrior, the winner of ladies hearts. Nobody would expect him to be in the form of an Eunuch. Plus he learned music and dance in heavens that no one was aware of.

Nakul knew horse lore well but he chose to be a groomsman, instead of a charioteer. If anyone knows horsebreeding, knows that groomsmen are generally covered in grime and they stink because of all the horse shut around. Nobody would expect the handsomest man who was known for his impeccable persona to be living as groomsman

Sahadev was famous as most intelligent and was handling administration in Indraprasth. He chose to be a cowherd. A person with no education or professional skill, who just tends cows while they graze. Not many people would have known him to be good in husbandry because he spent all his public time handling law and order and administration in Indraprasth

Draupadi the most beautiful empress chose to be a hairdresser. A woman who was handling treasury and officiating Royal ceremonies, Being seen public leading the kingdom chose to be a lowly hairdresser who never leaves the queens chamber and who is never seen in public. The one who had scores of maids handling her grooming and dressing since she was born in the yagya. No one expected her to know hair dressing skills. She could not be a cook because people were aware of her cooking and feeding Brahmanas during exile. That will be the first place anyone will look for her

There is no caste called Vallabh. It is a name which means dear. For eg. Krishna is called Rukminivallabh or dear to Rukmini

Bhima became a cook, the one who loved eating chose to be the one to feed people. The head chef in Royal families were always Brahmins. Because they were expected to cook for the king as well eminent Rishis and guests.

You can call it discrimination in jobs. Shudra and lower caste were not allowed to cook for upper caste people. But Bhima was not doing this caste discrimination or taking advantage of it. Bhima chose to be head chef because that was least expected of him.

However Pandavas and Draupadi were not casteist.

The disguises they chose was simply based on a talent they possessed already but about which general public and kouravas did not know. And at the same time in role no one expected of them. This had nothing to do with caste.

And kindly remember I said this for Karna else where but it is the same for Keechaka. He was being abused for his behavior, not for his caste.

Everyone just tries to make a punching bag out of Draupadi for being casteist when she was not. Karna Keechaka were worst possible men of the time, potential rapists and assaulters and the abuse they faced were purely because of their actions. If they had been a Kshatriya they would face the same abuse just like Jayadrath and Shishupal

Before anyone starts doing suta jap, always remember Bhishma and Krishna both were suta. Vidur was much lower caste kshatta

Originally posted by: Chiillii

On a side note Yudhishtir's disguise was Kanka a Brahmana minister of Indraprasth from Vyagrapada gotra. Who used to play dice with the emperor.

Yudhishitir was already famous for terribly losing in dice. He learned how to play it well from Rishi Vrihadshawa during exile. His demeanor was well known to be more like a Brahmana than Kshatriya and hence he chose to be this

Arjuna was famous as THE ultimate man, the undefeated warrior, the winner of ladies hearts. Nobody would expect him to be in the form of an Eunuch. Plus he learned music and dance in heavens that no one was aware of.

Nakul knew horse lore well but he chose to be a groomsman, instead of a charioteer. If anyone knows horsebreeding, knows that groomsmen are generally covered in grime and they stink because of all the horse shut around. Nobody would expect the handsomest man who was known for his impeccable persona to be living as groomsman

Sahadev was famous as most intelligent and was handling administration in Indraprasth. He chose to be a cowherd. A person with no education or professional skill, who just tends cows while they graze. Not many people would have known him to be good in husbandry because he spent all his public time handling law and order and administration in Indraprasth

Draupadi the most beautiful empress chose to be a hairdresser. A woman who was handling treasury and officiating Royal ceremonies, Being seen public leading the kingdom chose to be a lowly hairdresser who never leaves the queens chamber and who is never seen in public. The one who had scores of maids handling her grooming and dressing since she was born in the yagya. No one expected her to know hair dressing skills. She could not be a cook because people were aware of her cooking and feeding Brahmanas during exile. That will be the first place anyone will look for her

There is no caste called Vallabh. It is a name which means dear. For eg. Krishna is called Rukminivallabh or dear to Rukmini

Bhima became a cook, the one who loved eating chose to be the one to feed people. The head chef in Royal families were always Brahmins. Because they were expected to cook for the king as well eminent Rishis and guests.

You can call it discrimination in jobs. Shudra and lower caste were not allowed to cook for upper caste people. But Bhima was not doing this caste discrimination or taking advantage of it. Bhima chose to be head chef because that was least expected of him.

However Pandavas and Draupadi were not casteist.

The disguises they chose was simply based on a talent they possessed already but about which general public and kouravas did not know. And at the same time in role no one expected of them. This had nothing to do with caste.

And kindly remember I said this for Karna else where but it is the same for Keechaka. He was being abused for his behavior, not for his caste.

Everyone just tries to make a punching bag out of Draupadi for being casteist when she was not. Karna Keechaka were worst possible men of the time, potential rapists and assaulters and the abuse they faced were purely because of their actions. If they had been a Kshatriya they would face the same abuse just like Jayadrath and Shishupal

Before anyone starts doing suta jap, always remember Bhishma and Krishna both were suta. Vidur was much lower caste kshatta

@Bold. Oh, that's right. I'd forgotten about this part. Ganga, in Shanthanu's context specifically, was stated as Rishi Jahnu's daughter. So yeah, Bheeshma was suta.

Also, Satyvati was born kshatriya but was adopted by a fisherman. Not sure what caste that made Vichitraveerya but definitely not pure kshatriya which means the Pandavas weren't, either. But they were definitely treated as such, so can ignore that,

If Vidura was kshatta (which he was repeatedly referred to as), then Vyasa was also considered low caste.

So much for the Pandava casteism when the people they generally deferred to were Vyasa, Krishna, Vidura, and Bheeshma. The kshatriyas among them - Dhritharashtra, Kauravas, Jayadratha, etc - were considered enemies by Pandavas and Panchali.