What changes would have happened had Duryodhan won the war - Page 5

After getting appointed the commander in chief, Bheeshma tells Duryodhana he would slay Panchalas but won't KILL Shikhandi.

The use of the term KILL explains the two attacks on Shikhandi. Those attacks must have been intended to shoo him away. And Shikhandi did run away.

If we reject the rebirth theory, Shikhandi's grudge against Bheeshma may be explained by the fact that he was Draupadi's brother who desired justice for her relatives by slaying Kauravas.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Actually the discussion also give me some insights, were Pandavas actually good or better than Kauravas?

To give an example think of Bheem and Hindimbi. If we remove any divinity angle, Ved Vyas ji couldn't have known the conversation between them out of nowhere. He would have had to believe what the people there said. Which is only Pandavas and Kunti or Hindimbi.

They would have told Ved Vyas ji that Hindimbi approached Bheem for a son and Bheem complied

But for once think from a completely neutral point of view, like for example you would judge the respected figures of other religions you hate.

Will a girl approach the murderer of her brother for a kid immidiately after the murder? He stayed with Hindimbi for a year and Ghatochkach was already some days old when Bheem left. Ghatochkach is no where mentioned to be a premature baby (or is he? Please confirm someone) so it seems she conceived within a month of the murder of her brother by his murderer. Definitely we can't say it was a zero probability thing, but the chances of this is undoubtedly very less if you go by the psyche of a girl irrespective of how bad a human her brother might have been. Plus the assumption that she needed a son as a protector doesn't make much sense either if you ask me because if it was difficult for a single lady to survive then survival for a lady with an infant wasn't any easier

Couldn't the case be reverse? Instead of Hindimbi approaching Bheem, it was Bheem who approached Hindimbi and fearing her death too, she complied! Can we rule out this possibility? I don't think we can but since the only people to have known the actual occurrence were the supporters of Bheem so we got this narrative

Probably (just probably) Pandavas too weren't as good as we know them to be

Any inputs/point on this

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Any inputs/point on this

Fear for her life and needing a namesake heir to maintain control over clan.

FlauntPessimism

It wasn't exactly the murder of her brother: Bhima was defending her (as well as the rest of his family) from Hidimba. Yeah, she did offer Bhima to evacuate both him and his family, which Bhima declined. Hidimba then arrived and threatened Hidimbi, and Bhima responded by challenging Hidimba to fight him instead

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01156.htm

She fell in love w/ Bhima b4 her brother was killed. And he was killed while in the act of threatening her, as well as the man she loved. So it's not exactly an act of betrayal on her part.

What is more strange is her willing to let go of Bhima after the Pandavas are done staying w/ her. One would have thought that during the Pandava exile at least, Bhima - and his brothers and Draupadi - would have lived w/ her

Originally posted by: Wistfulness

After getting appointed the commander in chief, Bheeshma tells Duryodhana he would slay Panchalas but won't KILL Shikhandi.

The use of the term KILL explains the two attacks on Shikhandi. Those attacks must have been intended to shoo him away. And Shikhandi did run away.

If we reject the rebirth theory, Shikhandi's grudge against Bheeshma may be explained by the fact that he was Draupadi's brother who desired justice for her relatives by slaying Kauravas.

That wouldn't explain her enmity w/ Bheeshma, of all people. Like Drupada had a grudge against Drona, so had Dhrishtadyumna to act on it. But he had nothing against Bheeshma (who according to history had at one point restored Prishatha to the Panchala throne), and in the rebirth story, Amba had approached Prishatha wanting revenge against Bheeshma w/ a garland for anybody who'd be willing to slay him. Prishatha declined, and Amba hung that garden at the palace gates. When Shikhandini was born and grew up a bit, she discovered that garland, and remembering what it was for, wore it herself.

The real wrong-doers of the Pandavas were Duryodhan, Dushashan, Karna and Shakuni, and none of them were targeted by the Panchalas. It was only Bheeshma and Drona

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

FlauntPessimism

It wasn't exactly the murder of her brother: Bhima was defending her (as well as the rest of his family) from Hidimba. Yeah, she did offer Bhima to evacuate both him and his family, which Bhima declined. Hidimba then arrived and threatened Hidimbi, and Bhima responded by challenging Hidimba to fight him instead

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01156.htm

She fell in love w/ Bhima b4 her brother was killed. And he was killed while in the act of threatening her, as well as the man she loved. So it's not exactly an act of betrayal on her part.

What is more strange is her willing to let go of Bhima after the Pandavas are done staying w/ her. One would have thought that during the Pandava exile at least, Bhima - and his brothers and Draupadi - would have lived w/ her

I am not saying this isn't true as per what is mentioned in the text. My simple point is that there is no way Ved Vyas ji could have got this information except the words of Pandavas and Kunti. You can not deny the possibility that had even the reverse happened, the people who had their vested interest in proving themselves ever good could have lied

Irrespective of when she fell in love, getting into relationship with someone who has just killed your brother (sorry for using the word murder) is not something pretty common

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

That wouldn't explain her enmity w/ Bheeshma, of all people. Like Drupada had a grudge against Drona, so had Dhrishtadyumna to act on it. But he had nothing against Bheeshma (who according to history had at one point restored Prishatha to the Panchala throne), and in the rebirth story, Amba had approached Prishatha wanting revenge against Bheeshma w/ a garland for anybody who'd be willing to slay him. Prishatha declined, and Amba hung that garden at the palace gates. When Shikhandini was born and grew up a bit, she discovered that garland, and remembering what it was for, wore it herself.

The real wrong-doers of the Pandavas were Duryodhan, Dushashan, Karna and Shakuni, and none of them were targeted by the Panchalas. It was only Bheeshma and Drona

And Yudhishtir too

DDSK and Yudhishtir are equally at fault

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Fear for her life and needing a namesake heir to maintain control over clan.

Fear for life from Bheem? Then it wasn't so much consensual a relation

And even if she needed am heir why chose only Bheem who killed her brother, I am sure she could have got others

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

That wouldn't explain her enmity w/ Bheeshma, of all people. Like Drupada had a grudge against Drona, so had Dhrishtadyumna to act on it. But he had nothing against Bheeshma (who according to history had at one point restored Prishatha to the Panchala throne), and in the rebirth story, Amba had approached Prishatha wanting revenge against Bheeshma w/ a garland for anybody who'd be willing to slay him. Prishatha declined, and Amba hung that garden at the palace gates. When Shikhandini was born and grew up a bit, she discovered that garland, and remembering what it was for, wore it herself.

The real wrong-doers of the Pandavas were Duryodhan, Dushashan, Karna and Shakuni, and none of them were targeted by the Panchalas. It was only Bheeshma and Drona

@Bold - This may be due to the fact that the quartet was already taken by the Pandavas?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Fear for life from Bheem? Then it wasn't so much consensual a relation

And even if she needed am heir why chose only Bheem who killed her brother, I am sure she could have got others

Hidimba was the man in charge. When he was killed, the killer would automatically have been assumed to be stronger. Animal rules, but entire land was like that, not simply the rakshasa tribes. Hidimbi approaching Bheema for stud service would be a matter of survival at that point. Ain't pretty, but it was what it was.