Why Parikshit? - Page 7

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Yudhishtra and drapaudi daughter suthanu was married to bhanu krishna s son this is mentioned in SB harivasma and vayu puran

Vayu puran mention suthanu as vajra s mother. I recently read a book about ancient dynasties there also suthanu and bhanu are mentioned as vajra s parents so you see there are many text that supports this theory plus i have given citation in previous pages where both arjuna and even yudhishtra mention vajra as king of ip. So that makes sense since he was yudhishtra s grandson

Maybe vajra or one of his progeny returned ip to kuru

But since this particular thing is controversial we can believe what we want unless we get some concrete proof

Oh no, Vajra was the grandson of Pradhyumna, and son of Anirudha. He wasn't the son of Bhanu.

Also I read that Yudhisthir and Arjun were the 2 who had daughters from Draupadi. Yudhisthir's daughter married a rishi (just like Rama's sister Shanta did) while Arjun's daughter married Bhanu.

Incidentally, I don't believe the last part: if Krishna's sister marries into the Pandava family, none of Krishna's sons can marry Pandava daughters. The converse, though, would have been allowed: the Pandava sons could have married any daughter or niece of Krishna's.

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Oh no, Vajra was the grandson of Pradhyumna, and son of Anirudha. He wasn't the son of Bhanu.

Also I read that Yudhisthir and Arjun were the 2 who had daughters from Draupadi. Yudhisthir's daughter married a rishi (just like Rama's sister Shanta did) while Arjun's daughter married Bhanu.

Incidentally, I don't believe the last part: if Krishna's sister marries into the Pandava family, none of Krishna's sons can marry Pandava daughters. The converse, though, would have been allowed: the Pandava sons could have married any daughter or niece of Krishna's.

Oh no vajra was suthanu and bhanu s son. See even i can say that 😆 and we can keep going round and round about it.

But as i said since there are contradictory we cannot draw concrete conclusion.

Oh no suthanu was definitely married to bhanu. That fact has been mentioned too many times in too many text including harivasma and vayu puran and even SB to be neglected.

Arjuna s daughter has not been mentioned in any of the above source so ..

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Problem is that Vyasa contradicts himself in different places, so what one reads in one place is not consistent w/ what's mentioned elsewhere.

Like it's mentioned that Dhristadyumna left the forest w/ Draupadi's sons, yet later, Satyabhama tells Draupadi how Rukmini and others at Dwarka love Draupadeyas no less than Pradhyumna, Samba, et al

Nowhere does Vyasa mention any circumstances by which those kids would have left their own Nana's kingdom to go to that of one of their aunt's. Subhadra was only Shrutakarman's step-mom: for the other 4, she was an aunt

If I'm not mistaken Satyabhama actually says the upapandavas prefer Dwaraka to Panchala. Maybe they went back and forth. That section also says Pradyumna and Abhimanyu trained upapandavas.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Arjuna was father in name only if one believes Abhimanyu being a teenager during the war theory, there's much more evidence to suggest otherwise

Also, Bheema was never around Ghato but he is always called Bheema's son, Vyasa won't give Abhimanyu's paternity to Krishna because his mother is Krishna's sister

Not theory.

Abhimanyu was born right before imperial campaign. If the campaign, rajasuya, dice game took 5 or so years, Abhimanyu would have been 18. Even if you stretch it and say 10 years, he would've been 23.

In which case, Krishna did bring him up.

Vyasa ddn't give paternity to Krishna. He called Abhimanyu son of Krishna. There is a HUGE difference. Sperm donation makes paternity. Fatherhood is something else. For Ghatotkatch to be called someone else's son, there was no father figure we know of in his life. Besides, he did meet Pandavas during their exile and spend time.

Another point: Pradyumna is said to have trained Abhimanyu. If he were older than 10 at the most by dice game, he would've been trained by Arjuna in Indraprastha.

Moreover, Drona is stated to be 85 during Kurkushetra. Drona was Bheeshma's generation since he married Kripi, Bheeshma's stepsister. ie, Pandavas' grandfather's generation. Even if everyone had kids very young, it would put Pandavas mid 40s by war. Which makes it very likely Abhimanyu was in his late teens to early 20s.

Even if you count Bheeshma as 200, the exile being 13 years is clearly stated and going back, Abhimanyu's birth just before imperial campaign is clearly stated.

Abhimanyu being a full grown man by war is a theory advanced to somehow justify the way he was killed. There is absolutely no evidence for it. Zero, zilch, nada.

Even so, we should make something very clear. Surrounding anyone - a teenager, an adult, an old man, a woman - tiring him out and then killing him is MURDER. In every other war scene where multiple warriors fought, it wasn't one-on-one at a time until the victim got fatigued while allowing the other to rest. Even today, it would be called murder.

So yeah, 1. Abhimanyu was murdered by Kauravas and Drona and Karna

2. Abhimanyu was at worst in his early 20s, more likely 18 or 19.

I believe both suthanu and pragithi r folklore, I think Draupadi only had 5 sons, if she had daughter how come she never mentions about suthanu r remembers her, vyasa and she herself mentions about her sons, if vyasa didn’t feel like mentioning about daughter atleast Draupadi would have mentioned about her, in vanaparava when she was talking with satya she never mentions r remembers suthanu, she should rt ,because she s mother, and Draupadi s not some one who remembers son and forgets daughter, even satya who s supposed to be suthanu mother in law also never mentions her, she only assures about upapandavas but never about suthanu, even Draupadi herself never remembers r asks about her.

and whatever i read r heard vajra s pradyumn grandson not related to bhanu, he s anirudh and usha son, his story was told already, if he got indraprastha vyasa would have mentioned about suthanu, it’s a big thing and IP s capital after all, and vysa before never shyed about talking daughters r adoptions. I believe suthanu s also folklore, and vajra was king of mathura.

Originally posted by: swathi90

I believe both suthanu and pragithi r folklore, I think Draupadi only had 5 sons, if she had daughter how come she never mentions about suthanu r remembers her, vyasa and she herself mentions about her sons, if vyasa didn’t feel like mentioning about daughter atleast Draupadi would have mentioned about her, in vanaparava when she was talking with satya she never mentions r remembers suthanu, she should rt ,because she s mother, and Draupadi s not some one who remembers son and forgets daughter, even satya who s supposed to be suthanu mother in law also never mentions her, she only assures about upapandavas but never about suthanu, even Draupadi herself never remembers r asks about her.

and whatever i read r heard vajra s pradyumn grandson not related to bhanu, he s anirudh and usha son, his story was told already, if he got indraprastha vyasa would have mentioned about suthanu, it’s a big thing and IP s capital after all, and vysa before never shyed about talking daughters r adoptions. I believe suthanu s also folklore, and vajra was king of mathura.

I think Suthanu is mentioned in Harivamsa. Pragathi is folklore.

Panchali actually never mentions any of her supposed children in exile. Even when Krishna and Satyabhama visit, they're the ones who mention the children, not her. And even when they how the kids are doing, there is practically no reaction from Panchali.

CE, Vol 3, 477 (180)

The one with the diadem on his head recounted the details ofwhat had happened in the forest to Gada’s senior, exactly as they had occurred.15 He thenasked him how Subhadra was, together with Abhimanyu. In the prescribed fashion, Madhu’sslayer16 showed honours to Partha,17 Krishna18 and

....

The lord of theDasharhas, together with his well-wishers, then spoke to Krishna Yajnaseni. “O Krishna! OYajnaseni! Your young ones are devoted to truthful vows, show good conduct and wish tobecome foremost in the knowledge of weapons. They always associate with righteous ones.Your sons follow the path of meditation. O Krishna! Though your father and your brothers

seek to attract them with the kingdom and the territory, these young ones find no attractionin the houses of Yajnasena21 or their maternal uncles. In a desire to become foremost in theknowledge of weapons, they safely travelled in the direction of Anarta.22 O Krishna! Yoursons entered the city of the Vrishnis.23 They do not feel any jealousy towards the gods.24Without fail, Subhadra always instructs them in conduct, just as you yourself would haveinstructed them, or the arya Kunti. O Krishna! Just as Rukmini’s son is the instructor andguide of Aniruddha, Abhimanyu, Sunitha and Bhanu, he is just the same to your sons too.25Prince Abhimanyu is a skilled teacher. He constantly instructs the brave ones in fighting withclubs, swords, shields and missiles, and in handling chariots and horses. Like an instructor,Rukimini’s son has given them many weapons and has taught them well. He finds greatsatisfaction in the valour of your sons and of Abhimanyu. O Yajnaseni! When your sons goout for sport, each of them is followed by a retinue of chariots, vehicles and elephants.”

the priest.

...

CE, Vol 3, 520 (223)

hen Satyabhama embraced Drupada’s daughter and spoke these cordial words toher, as was in conformity with her affectionate sentiments. “O Krishna!

...

Your sons Prativindhya, the illustrious Sutasoma,Arjuna’s son Shrutakarma, Nakula’s son Shatanika and Shrutasena begotten by Sahadeva areall brave and skilled. Your sons are skilled in use of weapons. They are living happily withAbhimanyu in Dvaravati, a place they love. Like you, Subhadra loves them with all her soul.Without any conflict, she is affectionate towards them and has no worries on their account.Pradyumna’s mother6 loves them with all her soul. Keshava instructs them, with Bhanu7 andthe others. My father-in-law always looks after their food and attire. With Rama8 and theothers, all the Andhakas and Vrishnis are devoted towards them. O beautiful one! They lovethem as much as Praduymna.”

Draupadi's name wasn't the same as that of Dwarkadheesh. .

The earlier was known as Krishna and the latter as Krishn(without a "aa" sound at the end). The spellings of both do match in English but in Devnagri of Brahmi scripts in which we have the manuscripts the spellings are pretty different.

I don't think there can be much confusion on whom the word referred

Originally posted by: swathi90

I believe both suthanu and pragithi r folklore, I think Draupadi only had 5 sons, if she had daughter how come she never mentions about suthanu r remembers her, vyasa and she herself mentions about her sons, if vyasa didn’t feel like mentioning about daughter atleast Draupadi would have mentioned about her, in vanaparava when she was talking with satya she never mentions r remembers suthanu, she should rt ,because she s mother, and Draupadi s not some one who remembers son and forgets daughter, even satya who s supposed to be suthanu mother in law also never mentions her, she only assures about upapandavas but never about suthanu, even Draupadi herself never remembers r asks about her.

and whatever i read r heard vajra s pradyumn grandson not related to bhanu, he s anirudh and usha son, his story was told already, if he got indraprastha vyasa would have mentioned about suthanu, it’s a big thing and IP s capital after all, and vysa before never shyed about talking daughters r adoptions. I believe suthanu s also folklore, and vajra was king of mathura.

Pragati is a folklore. Suthanu is not. Harivasma mentions her SB mentions her. Vayu puran mentions. The book about ancient indian dynasties mentions just because one text on mb does not mention her does not mean she was folkfore not every other text can be wrong di

plus kmg only follow the version on which neelkhant did his commentary. Hence that is not the only source of mb. There are other versions Indonesian version nepali version Kashmiri version bhuddhism s version Bombay edition gita press version. Northern recension southern recession etc. And all these versions do vary to some extent from eachother and even contradiction can be found in within one single text.

That s how history is there are various sources one cannot simply place everything on one single source.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Not theory.

Abhimanyu was born right before imperial campaign. If the campaign, rajasuya, dice game took 5 or so years, Abhimanyu would have been 18. Even if you stretch it and say 10 years, he would've been 23.

In which case, Krishna did bring him up.

Vyasa ddn't give paternity to Krishna. He called Abhimanyu son of Krishna. There is a HUGE difference. Sperm donation makes paternity. Fatherhood is something else. For Ghatotkatch to be called someone else's son, there was no father figure we know of in his life. Besides, he did meet Pandavas during their exile and spend time.

Another point: Pradyumna is said to have trained Abhimanyu. If he were older than 10 at the most by dice game, he would've been trained by Arjuna in Indraprastha.

Moreover, Drona is stated to be 85 during Kurkushetra. Drona was Bheeshma's generation since he married Kripi, Bheeshma's. ie, Pandavas' grandfather's generation. Even if everyone had kids very young, it would put Pandavas mid 40s by war. Which makes it very likely Abhimanyu was in his late teens to early 20s.

Even if you count Bheeshma as 200, the exile being 13 years is clearly stated and going back, Abhimanyu's birth just before imperial campaign is clearly stated.

Abhimanyu being a full grown man by war is a theory advanced generally by Karna/Kaurava fans to somehow justify the way Abhimanyu was killed. There is absolutely no evidence for it. Zero, zilch, nada.

Even so, we should make something very clear. Surrounding anyone - a teenager, an adult, an old man, a woman - tiring him out and then killing him is MURDER. In every other war scene where multiple warriors fought, it wasn't one-on-one at a time until the victim got fatigued while allowing the other to rest. Even today, it would be called murder.

So yeah, 1. Abhimanyu was murdered by Kauravas and Drona and Karna

2. Abhimanyu was at worst in his early 20s, more likely 18 or 19.

@red

It is stated that Arjuna trained Abhimanyu and Upapandavas

'The child from his earliest years became the favourite of Vasudeva and of his father and uncles, like the moon of all the people of the world. Upon his birth, Krishna performed the usual rites of infancy. The child began to grow up like the Moon of the bright fortnight. That grinder of foes soon became conversant with the Vedas and acquired from his father the science of weapon both celestial and human, consisting of four branches and ten divisions.'

His father and Vasudeva are mentioned separately, the last sentence stays that his father trained him

'All of them, of excellent behaviour and vows, after having studied the Vedas, acquired from Arjuna a knowledge of all the weapons, celestial and human'

This one States Arjuna trained Upapandavas too

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01224.htm

@Blue

Ghatothkach's son and Bheema's grandson also participated in war

Afflicted with showers of shafts by Bhimasena's grandson, viz., the brave Anjanaparvan, Aswatthaman looked like the mountain Meru bearing a torrent of rain from a mighty cloud.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07152.htm

Ghatothkach growing up + having a grown up son who can participate in war, is not possible if Abhimanyu and Upapandavas were teenagers

@green -/Abhimanyu's birth is described before Khandaprasth Dahan incident where Arjun got Gandiva, Dhrithrashtra clearly states that 33 years have been passed since the burning of Khandavprastha

"Three and thirty years have passed away since the time, when Arjuna, having invited Agni, gratified him at Khandava, vanquishing all the celestials. "

In all this, Upapandavas and Abhimanyu participated along with their uncles in Rajysuya Yagya

"O king, followed Suvala with his son; and the sons of Draupadi with the son of Subhadra followed those mighty warriors--the kings of the mountainous countries. And other bulls among Kshatriyas followed other Kshatriyas. And the Brahmanas by thousands also went away, duly worshipped.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02044.htmsons

They were old enough during this yagya to follow kings themselves

After reading all this, I came to a conclusion that Abhi was 30+ and Arjuna was very much a part of his childhood and Early training, but again, it depends on what one believes as there are many contradictions in the story

@purple

Like Kunti was mother figure for Nakul and Sahdev but they are called Madri's sons

Ok people don't kill me for my ignorance. Who is Pragati? Never read about her😛