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Posted: 5 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Suthanu is mentioned in SB HV and other Puranas too

If you completely reject SB then, you would not know who Krishna was, why did he have issues with Jarasangh or Rukmi. Why was he called Ranchhor

You have to believe in SB for the Krishna side of story. Mahabharata is mainly about Pandavas and Kauravas, Krishna doesn't have his own Itihas in it


Problem is that there are contradictions between MBh and SB.


HV and MBh generally supplement each other and adds Krishna's story quite well.


If we go by SB, Krishna would have been a grandfather by the time Panchali swayamvar happened and so would the Pandavas.

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Posted: 5 years ago
#42

And yes vajra getting ip does point out to him being related to yudhishtra Your daughter s son is as good as your own. I am not sure about other versions. Since i am still reading still learning but right now since i do have certain sources to point out a particular point i would like to believe unless i get a concrete proof to either strength my theory or to disapprove it completely. I will not like to just stick to either kmg or CE.

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Posted: 5 years ago
#43

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


How many times in entire epic is Arjuna called Krishna except in combo with male Krishna?


Panchali on the other hand is constantly called Krishna.


And sometimes Abhimanyu is called son of Arjuna and son of Krishna in the same sentence!


😆I don't even get why this is a point of contention.


There are alot of things we are debating that is not even mentioned even a single time in the epic. Another name of Arjun is Krishna, that cannot be denied and it's there in the epic. Look up the Sanskrit verses that coordinate with the verses as well.

Every mention of "Krishna" is not Draupadi. Why isn't he ever mentioned as Yajnaseni or Panchali's son? Or did Vyasa suddenly decide Draupadi can't be called anything but KRISHNA in reference to Abhimanyu 😆

Can you also quote this same sentence and the part where it's there. I would want to check the Sanskrit verse corresponding to it to check

Edited by CaptainSpark - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago
#44

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

And yes vajra getting ip does point out to him being related to yudhishtra Your daughter s son is as good as your own. I am not sure about other versions. Since i am still reading still learning but right now since i do have certain sources to point out a particular point i would like to believe unless i get a concrete proof to either strength my theory or to disapprove it completely. I will not like to just stick to either kmg or CE.

Parikshit is not related to Yudhi directly. He is also one of the heirs. Just because Vajra inherited HP what's there to believe he is 100% directly related to Yudhishthir?

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Posted: 5 years ago
#45

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

You don't believe mb is a history you believe it is a text probably. But i do believe hence the entire base of the discussion ends here because if it is just a prose as you believe then you will stick to text or to fiction story that is

Since i believe in the existence i will certainly looks for other books other writings etc


Hence let us agree to disagree

Look some of it is history, some of it isn't. I can't believe everything actually happened as per it is mentioned today. This "text" became a text much later. It was transmitted through speech from one generation to another and so alot changed, alot was added and alot was story. Then divine light was given to it. Now if you completely remove divinity half of the story makes no sense. You have to see it from all sides with probability of some being false and some truth.

I just find it strange that Vyasa's epic never mentioned the daughter of a protagonist whose existence gives important dimensions to inheritance.

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Posted: 5 years ago
#46

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark


There are alot of things we are debating that is not even mentioned even a single time in the epic. Another name of Arjun is Krishna, that cannot be denied and it's there in the epic. Look up the Sanskrit verses that coordinate with the verses as well.

Every mention of "Krishna" is not Draupadi. Why isn't he ever mentioned as Yajnaseni or Panchali's son? Or did Vyasa suddenly decide Draupadi can't be called anything but KRISHNA in reference to Abhimanyu 😆

Can you also quote this same sentence and the part where it's there. I would want to check the Sanskrit verse corresponding to it to check


Sanskrit version usually uses Karshni (with accents).


___________


CHAPTER 917(57)

Sanjaya said, “O venerable one! Drona’s son, Bhurishrava, Shalya,Chitrasena158 and Samyamani’s son159 fought with Subhadra’s son.While he was fighting with these five tigers among men alone, peoplesaw that he was extremely energetic and was like a young lion againstelephants. No one was equal to Krishna’s son160in sureness of aim,courage, valour, knowledge of weapons and dexterity. When Partha sawhis son, the scorcher of enemies, thus displaying his valour in that battle,he uttered a roar like a lion

CHAPTER 916(56)

Arjuna’s brave son, Abhimanyu, was skilled in the knowledge ofall weapons and was clad in golden and colourful armour. He rushed outfrom the mass of rathas and attacked. He confounded the great weaponsof all those maharathas. Karshni156 performed deeds that wereincapable of being countered. He was like the illustrious fire on asacrificial altar, when the one with the flames has been invoked with

great mantras.

CHAPTER 918(58)

When Dhrishtadyumna was thus tormented, Abhimanyu became angry.With great force, he dashed towards the chariot of the king of Madra.Having reached the chariot of the lord of Madra, Karshni, whose soulwas immeasurable, pierced Artayani with three arrows.

Later in CHAPTER 918(58)

We saw other large elephants slain and brought down byDhrishtadyumna, the great-souled Parshata. In that battle, the king ofMagadha advanced on an elephant that looked like Airavata,171towards the chariot of Subhadra’s son. On seeing Magadha’s mightyelephant advance towards him, Subhadra’s son, the destroyer of enemyheroes, killed it with an arrow. After depriving him of his elephant,Karshni, the destroyer of enemy cities, used a broad-headed and silver-shafted arrow to slice off the king’s head.

CHAPTER 957(97)

The foremost among rakshasas wasskilled in maya and Phalguna’s son was skilled in the use of divineweapons. O great king! Krishna’s son used three sharp arrows to pierceRishyashringa’s son in that battle and then again pierced him with fivearrows. Alambusa became angry and pierced Krishna’s son in the chestwith nine swift arrows, like forcefully striking a giant elephant with agoad. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! In that battle, the traveller ofthe night, swift in action, used a thousand arrows to oppress Arjuna’sson. Abhimanyu became angry. He shot nine sharp arrows with droopingtufts at the rakshasa’s giant chest. They quickly pierced his body andpenetrated his inner organs. O king! The limbs of that supreme amongrakshasas were mangled and he was as beautiful as a mountain withblossoming kimshukas. Bearing those gold-encrusted arrows, the best ofthe rakshasas, immensely strong, was as dazzling as a flaming mountain.O great king! At this, Rishyashringa’s immensely strong son becamewrathful. He enveloped Krishna’s son, who was like the great Indra, witharrows. He released sharp arrows that were like Yama’s staff. Thesepierced Abhimanyu and fell down on the ground. Arjuna’s son shotarrows that were decorated with gold.

CHAPTER 990(13)

Jayadrathacould not tolerate the sight of Pourava having been brought down,afflicted and without a protector, and in the control of Arjuna’s son. Hegrasped a shield marked with the giant wings of a peacock anddecorated with a hundred bells, and a sword. He roared and jumpeddown from his chariot. On seeing Saindhava, Krishna’s son85 let go ofPourava. He swiftly leapt down from the chariot, like a hawk alighting.Spears, lances and swords were hurled towards him by the enemy. But Krishna’s son sliced them down with his sword or countered them withhis shield. He displayed the strength of his own arms to the soldiers.

...

On seeing that the sword had been shattered, Jayadratha wasinstantly seen to retreat six steps and climb onto his chariot again. In thebattle, Krishna’s son resorted to his supreme chariot and all the kingssurrounded him from every direction. Arjuna’s immensely strong heirraised his shield and sword and roared, glancing towards Jayadratha.

Subhadra’s son, the destroyer of enemy heroes, then abandoned the kingof Sindhu and tormented the soldiers, like the sun on the earth. In theencounter, Shalya hurled a terrible javelin at him. It was madecompletely out of iron and was decorated with gold. It was as radiant asthe flames of a fire. As it descended, Krishna’s son leapt up and caughtit, like Vinata’s son grasping a supreme serpent that has fallen fromabove.

CHAPTER 1022(45)

He had been reared in great happiness

and was like a son of the lord of riches.96 Krishna’s son encountered himin battle, like a crazy elephant clashing against another crazy elephant.Subhadra’s son, the destroyer of enemy heroes, approached Lakshmanaand was pierced on his arms and his chest by extremely sharp arrowsthat were released from the bow

CHAPTER 1024(47)

Sanjaya said, “Phalguna’s son once again pierced Karna in the ear witha barbed arrow. A

...

Duhshasana’s son then pierced his four horses with four arrows,his charioteer with one and Arjuna’s son himself with ten arrows. Atthis, Krishna’s son pierced Duhshasana’s son with seven swift arrows. Hiseyes red with rage, he loudly spoke these words. ‘Like a coward, yourfather has fled from the field of battle. It is your good fortune that youknow how to fight. But you will not be able to escape today.’

CHAPTER 1025(48) (here implication is Abhimanyu is male Krishna’s son)

‘He killed many enemy princes in this battle, thosewho were like venomous serpents. It was only after killing them in battlefirst that Arjuna’s son gave up his life. He killed ten thousand and themaharatha from Kosala.129 Krishna’s son was like Krishna and Arjunaand has certainly gone to Shakra’s abode. He killed thousands of rathas,horses, men and elephants. But he was still not content with what hehad accomplished in battle. He is the performer of auspicious deeds. Weshould not grieve.’

CHAPTER 1026(49

Having encountered Duhshasana’s son, Krishna’s sondeparted for Vaivasvata’s137 eternal abode. When Subhadra’s son hasbeen killed, how will I cast my eyes on Kounteya Arjuna?

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark


There are alot of things we are debating that is not even mentioned even a single time in the epic. Another name of Arjun is Krishna, that cannot be denied and it's there in the epic. Look up the Sanskrit verses that coordinate with the verses as well.

Every mention of "Krishna" is not Draupadi. Why isn't he ever mentioned as Yajnaseni or Panchali's son? Or did Vyasa suddenly decide Draupadi can't be called anything but KRISHNA in reference to Abhimanyu 😆

Can you also quote this same sentence and the part where it's there. I would want to check the Sanskrit verse corresponding to it to check


You're right every mention of Krishna is not Panchali.


Can you point out instances of Arjuna being called Krishna except in conjunction with Krishna Vasudeva?😆 He isn't or at the most he was called once that I vaguely remember. So did Vyasa suddenly decide to call Arjuna Krishna in just those scenes?😆 Turnabout is fair play, etc. etc.


When you have two people with that name being called that name a few thousand times in the text vs. one person who was not called that name on his own, you generally conclude that name refers to either Krishna Panchali or Krishna Vasudeva.


_______________________


At this point, it seems to have become a debate rather than a discussion which usually goes nowhere where MBh is concerned. So you and I will agree to disagree.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 5 years ago
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Posted: 5 years ago
#48

FYI to all interested: my long held belief is that the son of Krishna part actually signifies Krishna Vasudeva and not Arjuna or Panchali. Because Krishna brought up Abhimanyu. Arjuna was father in name only.


The question was why Parikshit, so I indulged in some speculation is all. Plus, I had time to waste.😆


But Abhimanyu IS the only one declared heir twice in the epic - once by Satyaki and once by Vyasa. Prativindhya is never declared heir.

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Posted: 5 years ago
#49

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

FYI to all interested: my long held belief is that the son of Krishna part actually signifies Krishna Vasudeva and not Arjuna or Panchali. Because Krishna brought up Abhimanyu. Arjuna was father in name only.


The question was why Parikshit, so I indulged in some speculation is all. Plus, I had time to waste.😆


But Abhimanyu IS the only one declared heir twice in the epic - once by Satyaki and once by Vyasa. Prativindhya is never declared heir.

this i thought too when i was reading the arguments here. That the krishna could be the vasudev krishna. And abhimanyu is described as having qualities like arjun & krishna both.

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Posted: 5 years ago
#50

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Does anyone know what happened to Panchal after death of Dhristadumya and Shikhandi?



From everything I've read, one of Drupada's cousins inherited the throne. Somehow, he took no part in the war

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