Balaram on Dice Game - Page 2

Originally posted by: surabhi01

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m02/m02057.htm

Here is link where yudhishthir asking suggestion from vidhur that whom. he should play dice game

Then yudhishthir says to vidhur if shakuni challenge me I cannot refuse. This is my eternal vow

Shakuni keep challanging yudhishthir and yudhishthir could not refuse as he take vow

Saari samsya ki root yeh vow hi thi . Agar yeh vow nahi liya hota to yudhishthir sub khuch haare nahi hote

In fact whole mess in mahabharat created because they did not think properly before taking big vow

mahabharat is a culmination of bad vows😆

bheeshma, yudi, gandhari

Arjun ke to impulsive vows se krishna got him out of it.

Re: Balram.

This is what he does to Yamuna

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_046.html

Using the plough with its point down, (bala)rAma dragged the great river yamunA as though the river was a woman swerving from her duty.

That river flowing forcefully in a curved manner as indicated by the plough was distressed like a woman, due to the fear of sa~NkarShaNa (balarAma).

With her banks similar to thighs, bimbAh (the fruit of the Momordica Monadelpha) as lips, splashing water and broken foam as her girdle, the river was distressed, as the water breached its banks.

With the troubled rows of waves, having chakravAka (Anas Casarca) birds as her breasts, splendorous with her fast flowing currents, decorated by the distressed fish,

along with groups of swans, with a loose dress of linen of grass, her beautiful hair of trees on her banks, with the distressed flow of water,

angry, due to the plough tearing her limbs, the river going to the sea, like an intoxicated dishonest woman, who goes along the royal path,

was dragged quickly with force. Her currents diverted before, she was re-routed through the forest of vR^indAvana.

The river yamunA, brought to the middle of vR^indAvana forest , full of sounds of aquatic birds, appeared like crying.

The great river yamunA, breaching the forest of vR^indAvana, taking the form of a woman told bala(rAma):

(yamunA said): O lord! Be pleased. I am afraid due to my opposing action. My aquatic form is also getting diverted.

O son of rohiNi (balarAma)! You made me unchaste among rivers. O the one with great arms! By dragging I have diverted from my route.

My fast co-wives will reach the sea quickly before me, If my route is diverted, I will be laughed at by the water foams.

O valiant! Be pleased with me. O elder brother of kR^iShNa, I appeal to you. O the best among deva-s, Be pleased always with me.

I was dragged by the plough. Please refrain from the anger.

O the one with plough as weapon! I keep my head on your feet (I surrender to you). O the one with great arms! I wish to go along the route directed by you.

vaishampAyana said:

The one with plough as weapon (balarAma) saw the river yamunA surrendering to him. Exhausted with intoxication, he spoke these words to the bride of ocean:

(balarAma said:) O beautiful at sight! Auspicious lady! Kindly give water at all places along the route indicated by my plough.

O one with beautiful brows! This is my order to you, who goes to the ocean. O illustrious woman! Be calm. You can now proceed as you wish.

_________

I'm making human interp here. Clearly, one man cannot divert a river. If we consider Yamuna an actual woman Balram in his intoxicated state encountered on the banks of the Yamuna, you can draw your own conclusions as to what happened. When she asked how shall I return home after being made unchaste, he said go as you please.

Is it then any surprise he was supportive of the Kaurava gang?

Also to note: Krishna later married Yamuna. If it was the same woman... suffice to say he was one magnificent man.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Re: Balram.

This is what he does to Yamuna

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_046.html

Using the plough with its point down, (bala)rAma dragged the great river yamunA as though the river was a woman swerving from her duty.

That river flowing forcefully in a curved manner as indicated by the plough was distressed like a woman, due to the fear of sa~NkarShaNa (balarAma).

With her banks similar to thighs, bimbAh (the fruit of the Momordica Monadelpha) as lips, splashing water and broken foam as her girdle, the river was distressed, as the water breached its banks.

With the troubled rows of waves, having chakravAka (Anas Casarca) birds as her breasts, splendorous with her fast flowing currents, decorated by the distressed fish,

along with groups of swans, with a loose dress of linen of grass, her beautiful hair of trees on her banks, with the distressed flow of water,

angry, due to the plough tearing her limbs, the river going to the sea, like an intoxicated dishonest woman, who goes along the royal path,

was dragged quickly with force. Her currents diverted before, she was re-routed through the forest of vR^indAvana.

The river yamunA, brought to the middle of vR^indAvana forest , full of sounds of aquatic birds, appeared like crying.

The great river yamunA, breaching the forest of vR^indAvana, taking the form of a woman told bala(rAma):

(yamunA said): O lord! Be pleased. I am afraid due to my opposing action. My aquatic form is also getting diverted.

O son of rohiNi (balarAma)! You made me unchaste among rivers. O the one with great arms! By dragging I have diverted from my route.

My fast co-wives will reach the sea quickly before me, If my route is diverted, I will be laughed at by the water foams.

O valiant! Be pleased with me. O elder brother of kR^iShNa, I appeal to you. O the best among deva-s, Be pleased always with me.

I was dragged by the plough. Please refrain from the anger.

O the one with plough as weapon! I keep my head on your feet (I surrender to you). O the one with great arms! I wish to go along the route directed by you.

vaishampAyana said:

The one with plough as weapon (balarAma) saw the river yamunA surrendering to him. Exhausted with intoxication, he spoke these words to the bride of ocean:

(balarAma said:) O beautiful at sight! Auspicious lady! Kindly give water at all places along the route indicated by my plough.

O one with beautiful brows! This is my order to you, who goes to the ocean. O illustrious woman! Be calm. You can now proceed as you wish.

_________

I'm making human interp here. Clearly, one man cannot divert a river. If we consider Yamuna an actual woman Balram in his intoxicated state encountered on the banks of the Yamuna, you can draw your own conclusions as to what happened. When she asked how shall I return home after being made unchaste, he said go as you please.

Is it then any surprise he was supportive of the Kaurava gang?

Also to note: Krishna later married Yamuna. If it was the same woman... suffice to say he was one magnificent man.

I think you have misinterpreted it, he wasn't supportive of the Kauravas gang, it was Krishna who suggested that they should send someone to Kauravas who can convince them to give half the Kingdom to Yudhishtira

"These valiant sons of Kunti are ready to give up half their kingdom, and they make this sacrifice for the sake of Duryodhana. The sons of Dhritarashtra, therefore, should give up half of the kingdom, and should rejoice and be exceedingly happy with us that the quarrel can be so satisfactorily settled. These mighty persons having obtained the kingdom would, no doubt, be pacified and happy, provided the opposite party behave well

It's not like everyone was talking about war and he suggested peace, they were talking about peace when Balaram suggested that the person who is going to Hastinapur should be behave well instead of blaming them, if one is going for peace offering blaming is not what they are supposed to do. Anyway, the discussion is about Balaram saying that Yudhishtira challenged Shakuni and he could have stopped the game or changed the partner, I realized even Drupad did not counter Balaram's points about Shakuni

Originally posted by: proteeti

I am not excusing him, he was obviously responsible for his actions. I just feel the Kuru elders did as much of a bad job raising him as they did for Duryodhan.

I prefer not to believe Balaram was jealous but his actions are too weird to say he was not. 😅

🤣

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I think you have misinterpreted it, he wasn't supportive of the Kauravas gang, it was Krishna who suggested that they should send someone to Kauravas who can convince them to give half the Kingdom to Yudhishtira

"These valiant sons of Kunti are ready to give up half their kingdom, and they make this sacrifice for the sake of Duryodhana. The sons of Dhritarashtra, therefore, should give up half of the kingdom, and should rejoice and be exceedingly happy with us that the quarrel can be so satisfactorily settled. These mighty persons having obtained the kingdom would, no doubt, be pacified and happy, provided the opposite party behave well

It's not like everyone was talking about war and he suggested peace, they were talking about peace when Balaram suggested that the person who is going to Hastinapur should be behave well instead of blaming them, if one is going for peace offering blaming is not what they are supposed to do. Anyway, the discussion is about Balaram saying that Yudhishtira challenged Shakuni and he could have stopped the game or changed the partner, I realized even Drupad did not counter Balaram's points about Shakuni

I wasn't talking about that one scene. In fact, it WAS Yudhishtira's fault. But it doesn't mean the assault which followed in the dice hall could be ignored. Besides that, Balram in general supported Kauravas. He asked Krishna to fight for Suyodhana in spite of Subhadra being married to Arjuna. Forget Panchali, Balram wanted to fight against his sister and her family.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m09/m09035.htm

After this, while the troops (of both sides) were being mustered and arrayed, the high-souled son of Rohini, that foremost of all persons endued with might, addressed his brother Krishna, saying, 'O mighty-armed one, O slayer of Madhu, let us render assistance to the Kurus!' Krishna, however, did not listen to those words of his. With heart filled with rage (at this), that illustrious son of Yadu's race, the wielder of the plough then set out on a pilgrimage to the Sarasvati.

_____________________________

My citation from Harivamsa was to show what kind of person Balram was.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I wasn't talking about that one scene. In fact, it WAS Yudhishtira's fault. But it doesn't mean the assault which followed in the dice hall could be ignored. Besides that, Balram in general supported Kauravas. He asked Krishna to fight for Suyodhana in spite of Subhadra being married to Arjuna. Forget Panchali, Balram wanted to fight against his sister and her family.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m09/m09035.htm

After this, while the troops (of both sides) were being mustered and arrayed, the high-souled son of Rohini, that foremost of all persons endued with might, addressed his brother Krishna, saying, 'O mighty-armed one, O slayer of Madhu, let us render assistance to the Kurus!' Krishna, however, did not listen to those words of his. With heart filled with rage (at this), that illustrious son of Yadu's race, the wielder of the plough then set out on a pilgrimage to the Sarasvati.

_____________________________

My citation from Harivamsa was to show what kind of person Balram was.

That's what I wanted to know, if the rules in Dyut actually allowed Yudi to leave or not because till yesterday I thought he played because he couldn't stop the game in the middle.

Actually, It is quite weird how Krishna, Satyaki, Balaram, Even Drupad do not mention what happened to Draupadi, Drupad asked their messenger to tell people in Hastinapur about the hardship Pandavas have faced in these 13 years but he doesn't say anything about his daughter who faced the same/worse fate in both Dyut and Vanvas with assaults and abduction

Balaram was 😯, I don't have words, Never liked him

I don't think he couldn't have stopped the game. I feel that's just a later excuse. I am sure Dyut was common those days and definitely not every game continued till one of the party became slave to the other with his family

Aside Raja Nal had stopped playing after losing his kingdom, he didn't stake himself or his wife. He was in Satyug where everyone followed Dharma to the core

Balrama's himself played Dyut with Rukmi in Krishna's grandson aniruddh's wedding with Rukmi's granddaughter Rukmavati.

When Balrama lost, Rukmi laughed at him.Drunk and Angry Balrama accused Rukmi of cheating and threw the dice board at him and killed him.

He is no one to pass judgement on others

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I don't think he couldn't have stopped the game. I feel that's just a later excuse. I am sure Dyut was common those days and definitely not every game continued till one of the party became slave to the other with his family

Aside Raja Nal had stopped playing after losing his kingdom, he didn't stake himself or his wife. He was in Satyug where everyone followed Dharma to the core

Exactly, It didn't always end in people being slaves

Yudi had a terrible case of addiction

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Balrama's himself played Dyut with Rukmi in Krishna's grandson aniruddh's wedding with Rukmi's granddaughter Rukmavati.

When Balrama lost, Rukmi laughed at him.Drunk and Angry Balrama accused Rukmi of cheating and threw the dice board at him and killed him.

He is no one to pass judgement on others

Balaram had won and Rukmi cheated that's why he killed him, If Yudi and other believed that Sakuni cheated, why didn't they kill him? Even Bheeshma didn't agree that Sakuni cheated