Mahabharat of B. R. Chopra: Discussions/ DT note pg 119 - Page 27

Originally posted by: sonnet11

The event of the graduation ceremony of the students of Dronacharya was when Karna, for the first time, comes out in public and demands to show his skill as an archer. The entire audience refuses to let the son of a charioteer perform in the sabha of Kshatriyas. You see the loneliness of Karna there. Pandavas disagree, his own mother Kunti (who gets to know his identity at the moment because of the kavach) remains silent, Bheeshma disagrees, Dronacharya and everybody else disagrees.

Only Duryodhana speaks that more than anything else merit matters. Of course, we can debate that Duryodhana can very well be acting as an opportunist here.

But then why wouldn't Karna feel indebted to Duryodhana who supported him (for whatever reasons) when the whole world was against him?

P.S. It is Mahabharata. No easy answers😆

ha ha ha .. Karna and his actions are very debatable indeed!! They are like two sides to a coin and both sides that explanations and perceptions. At the end it is a fact that knowingly he stood with "the wrong side" and hence his downfall. It is his fate (which he could not turn around again due to situations) that Dury stepped in at right time and his own Mother did not!! It is his fate that he did not use his brains or intelligence to think rationally as he was emotional bec of the world's taunts. I also did not like at many places where his treatment by other people his concerned, but i will again not easily forgive him for being a part of Draupadi's humiliation!! Infact none of the Kuru maharathis can be forgiven and that day actually marked the sure downfall of the Kuru dynasty.

Originally posted by: RainFire125

agreed ,, he did have support and he did get a chance, and of course he met his due bec of siding with adharma. And of course i will never forget that he was quiet during Draupadi's humiliation. Irrespective of his identity crisis, any man staying quiet during such a criminal offense had to be punished by the LORD

He wasn't quiet. He was actually the one who called the shots. Dury was quiet after the thigh part. Karna was the one who ordered Dushy to disrobe her. 🤢

Originally posted by: RainFire125

Yes, he played with his emotions very clearly and i think its Karna's onus that he feels that Dury is the only one who gave him respect and recognition

This is one point I feel pity for this man. He kept blaming everybody else for his trials but refused to acknowledge the toxic presence of Dury in his life!

Originally posted by: proteeti

He wasn't quiet. He was actually the one who called the shots. Dury was quiet after the thigh part. Karna was the one who ordered Dushy to disrobe her. 🤢

OHH, i thought Dury did that!! I knew the thigh sitting order but i never knew the order was given by karna!! OH MAN, this chnages my perception further

This is one point I feel pity for this man. He kept blaming everybody else for his trials but refused to acknowledge the toxic presence of Dury in his life!

Yeah, because he was blinded by the so called fact that only Dury respected him!!

Pro, I'm actually convinced that Drona wasn't a guru to Karna, he took his education only under parshurama but let's not discuss that now, we'll cross the bridge when we come to it

Abt Dury I don't think that he used Karna even Vyasa has sung praises for their friendship but I get that it's debatable.... neither it's mentioned karna feels indebted to Dury, Karna only says something close to that in Krishna convo. Dury is simply the guy who stood up for a stranger and that somehow developed one of the most beautiful friendship. Honestly I don't see Dury as toxic at all but yes he hated Ps with passion.

Originally posted by: RainFire125

ha ha ha .. Karna and his actions are very debatable indeed!! They are like two sides to a coin and both sides that explanations and perceptions. At the end it is a fact that knowingly he stood with "the wrong side" and hence his downfall. It is his fate (which he could not turn around again due to situations) that Dury stepped in at right time and his own Mother did not!! It is his fate that he did not use his brains or intelligence to think rationally as he was emotional bec of the world's taunts. I also did not like at many places where his treatment by other people his concerned, but i will again not easily forgive him for being a part of Draupadi's humiliation!! Infact none of the Kuru maharathis can be forgiven and that day actually marked the sure downfall of the Kuru dynasty.

Yes, of course, and he paid for his actions. There is a consequence to every karma and one has to face it.

As far as Draupadi's humiliation is concerned, absolutely nothing in the world can justify it ever. If a woman from royalty could be so shamelessly humiliated, one can only imagine as to what would happen to a commoner. What Karna did there was much bigger than a mere mistake. That was total Adharma and all of their (including Yudhisthira) end got sealed there.

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

Pro, I'm actually convinced that Drona wasn't a guru to Karna, he took his education only under parshurama but let's not discuss that now, we'll cross the bridge when we come to it

Here it's mentioned that Karna was Drona's student and classmate+friend of Dury. 😊

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a002.htm

Abt Dury I don't think that he used Karna even Vyasa has sung praises for their friendship but I get that it's debatable.... neither it's mentioned karna feels indebted to Dury, Karna only says something close to that in Krishna convo. Dury is simply the guy who stood up for a stranger and that somehow developed one of the most beautiful friendship. Honestly I don't see Dury as toxic at all but yes he hated Ps with passion.

The point is, Karna was not a stranger to him na. But yes, this is a matter of opinion after all.

Originally posted by: RainFire125

ha ha ha .. Karna and his actions are very debatable indeed!! They are like two sides to a coin and both sides that explanations and perceptions. At the end it is a fact that knowingly he stood with "the wrong side" and hence his downfall. It is his fate (which he could not turn around again due to situations) that Dury stepped in at right time and his own Mother did not!! It is his fate that he did not use his brains or intelligence to think rationally as he was emotional bec of the world's taunts. I also did not like at many places where his treatment by other people his concerned, but i will again not easily forgive him for being a part of Draupadi's humiliation!! Infact none of the Kuru maharathis can be forgiven and that day actually marked the sure downfall of the Kuru dynasty.

He committed many sins, telling lies to Parasuram for getting an education, insulting Draupadi in the royal court, heckled her while disrobing by Dussasan, he tried to tie Krishna when he was there as a messenger, killing Abhimanyu in deceit, and finally perished in that fierce war, a war against sinners to humanity and divinity alike!

Once I read that Duryodhan's wife Bhanumathi and Karna's wife Vrishali were close friends, and at first, they tried their best to correct their husbands' misdeeds with the help of Gandhari, but consequently yielded to their strong negativity.

Duryodhan, Dussasan, Shakuni and Karna are the four persons who ruined the prospects of Hasthinapur's prosperity.

^^ pro I'm aware abt KMG, we've done this several times in the AT.

- Karna was born with KK, not a feature everyone has got then why was he was asked to introduce himself? Everyone should have recognized him.

-Karna was only a low cast in Drona's list, it seems fishy. Drona wasn't doing a teaching class for charity he had his motive and he had Arjuna for it, he didn't need Karna anyways

-Karna is ever referred as Parshurama shishya, never Drona's, when Dury talks to shalya he mentions "whole science of weapons" was given to K by P'rama

It doesn't fit for me😈 so not even Dury knew him before arena like I said it doesn't fit😕

Pro, as Kalyani rightly mentioned, Karna wasn't Dronacharya's student. When Karna approached Drona for education, he rejected him because of his status, from the lower strata in society, and he was there to educate only princes.

Karna wanted to get education by any means, so he approached Parasuram and got an education through the deceitful way, and later cursed for his sin.

It is a debatable point, in some versions, he got edu from Drona, and in other scriptures, he got form Parasuram. There is no clear cut info regarding this. As an inquisitive spectator and later for his archery prowess which he has shown as a glimpse in that contest, Duryodhan owned him for serving to his future purpose. Later they were good friends and assisted each other in every sin they did in unison!

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Pro, as Kalyani rightly mentioned, Karna wasn't Dronacharya's student. When Karna approached Drona for education, he rejected him because of his status, from the lower strata in society, and he was there to educate only princes.

Karna wanted to get education by any means, so he approached Parasuram and got an education through the deceitful way, and later cursed for his sin.

It is a debatable point, in some versions, he got edu from Drona, and in other scriptures, he got form Parasuram. There is no clear cut info regarding this. As an inquisitive spectator and later for his archery prowess which he has shown as a glimpse in that contest, Duryodhan owned him for serving to his future purpose. Later they were good friends and assisted each other in every sin they did in unison!

I also used to think that way only. Then I read through the KM Ganguly version as well as the Bengali Kaliprasanna version. Both of them use exactly the same words. Check out na. 😳

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a002.htm