A genuine question to forum members!

AngelsFlyAlone thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#1
Imagine if one of the leads, Shaheer or Erica weren't playing the lead roles, or that the chemistry wasn't so surreal and they didn't light up the screen?
How many people would actually think that they are both equally to blame and say Bijoy is as worse as Ishwari?

Also, its wonderful* to see people misuse the word feminism so frequently in this forum.
Feminism, rather, intersectional feminism is the belief in equality of all race, gender, sexuality, cultural background and everything. It is equality. Feminism isn't necessarily just fighting for women rights (its the fem part of the word that causes so much confusion).

Anyways, just saw stuff blow up on a post about all this negativity. Wanna really see what people think.


*wonderful: not remotely close to wonderful
Edited by AngelsFlyAlone - 8 years ago

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sowiee thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#2
I will answer what I understood from your post..
To be frank in the show I don't know anyone other than Shaheer when I started watching the show

Might be to get the first glimpse of the show was Shaheer but main reason to watch the show was the first promo..

For me story matters..If story is good then I watch it regardless of the actors..

So question of watching or supporting characters of the show because of the actors doesn't raise for me.

And bijoy is not worse as ishwari... His over protectiveness and little short temperedness sometimes bothers me..

Ishwari' insecurities I can understand but they are extremities. Basically no girl in present world think of having her as a dil

Dev - wonderful person , we can learn many things from him like caring for family keeping in mind not to go to extents ... Loving boy friend ( initial days). . even I can understand his situations

Sona - I as a girl learnt many things from her either it be professional or it be personal.. her strong character attracted me a lot..

But on the whole, one is responsible for one's own things happening on their life.

I think ishwari n bijoy shouldn't have interefered much in Thier children's life ...

Sona n Dev should have made a even more strong base in their married life..


And as far as I remember never I spoke about feminism... ( But i asked about y we support only Sona ) ...
Edited by sowiee - 8 years ago
AngelsFlyAlone thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#3

Originally posted by: sowiee

I will answer what I understood from your post..

To be frank in the show I don't know anyone other than Shaheer when I started watching the show

Might be to get the first glimpse of the show was Shaheer but main reason to watch the show was the first promo..

For me story matters..If story is good then I watch it regardless of the actors..

So question of watching or supporting characters of the show because of the actors doesn't raise for me.

And bijoy is not worse as ishwari... His over protectiveness and little short temperedness sometimes bothers me..

Ishwari' insecurities I can understand but they are extremities. Basically no girl in present world think of having her as a dil

Dev - wonderful person , we can learn many things from him like caring for family keeping in mind not to go to extents ... Loving boy friend ( initial days). . even I can understand his situations

Sona - I as a girl learnt many things from her either it be professional or it be personal.. her strong character attracted me a lot..

But on the whole, one is responsible for one's own things happening on their life.

I think ishwari n bijoy shouldn't have interefered much in Thier children's life ...

Sona n Dev should have made a even more strong base in their married life..


And as far as I remember never I spoke about feminism... ( But i asked about y we support only Sona ) ...


Thanks for your reply! Actually, I disagree with the boyfriend thing. I don't think he's the best boyfriend someone would have. Infact, after falling in love, both the characters just gave a stark 360 turn. Dev who claimed to love her a lot failed to speak the truth to her and broke her trust on multiple occasions and never stood up for her when his own family continued dissing her.

Sonakshi on the other hand, she was a bubbly girl with a dream romance and an iron willed personality. But after her love saga began, post marriage she was hell bent on winning best bahu pageant and she dropped to a doormat.

So are they both responsible for their doomed marriage? Yes! Equally, I don't think so. I think Sonakshi's biggest flaw was forgetting her own worth. Dev's was not telling Ishwari that hurting his lady, meant hurting him. And also, if the relationship is built upon lies, then there is absolutely no hope.
chucklebuddy thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#4
It is not only about the looks/chemistry. It does matter but it is not the only criterion. If the story, screenplay and dialogues are captivating, any actor will be able to pull off the ratings. The chemistry just adds to the popularity.
Coming to your question, it is not at all fair to equate Bijoy and Ishwari. Everyone is flawed, so is Bijoy. He might be short-tempered and aggressive at times. But as far as I know the Bose family has brought up Sona the right way - the right amount of care,concern,love and freedom. Being a girl myself, I would say that Bijoy has been good in his duties. He has minimal interference and lets Sona take the final call and tries to adjust with/accept the decision. If I were in Sona's position, I would expect that amount of involvement from by father. Had Ishwari interfered only as much as Bijoy did, 7 years would have been saved.

All I am saying is Bijoy and Asha do have a life other than caring for Sona whereas Ishwari's only reason for existence is to stick along with Dev. Sona is not emancipated, you cannot expect your parents to cut you off after marriage. No matter what the situation is, it is the concerning individual's final call that decides the fate of the relationship.

I don't see how 'feminism' comes into picture here!

Good question! :) This is just my POV. :)
AngelsFlyAlone thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: chucklebuddy

It is not only about the looks/chemistry. It does matter but it is not the only criterion. If the story, screenplay and dialogues are captivating, any actor will be able to pull off the ratings. The chemistry just adds to the popularity.

Coming to your question, it is not at all fair to equate Bijoy and Ishwari. Everyone is flawed, so is Bijoy. He might be short-tempered and aggressive at times. But as far as I know the Bose family has brought up Sona the right way - the right amount of care,concern,love and freedom. Being a girl myself, I would say that Bijoy has been good in his duties. He has minimal interference and lets Sona take the final call and tries to adjust with/accept the decision. If I were in Sona's position, I would expect that amount of involvement from by father. Had Ishwari interfered only as much as Bijoy did, 7 years would have been saved.

All I am saying is Bijoy and Asha do have a life other than caring for Sona whereas Ishwari's only reason for existence is to stick along with Dev. Sona is not emancipated, you cannot expect your parents to cut you off after marriage. No matter what the situation is, it is the concerning individual's final call that decides the fate of the relationship.

I don't see how 'feminism' comes into picture here!

Good question! :) This is just my POV. :)


Sorry actually I just added feminism to write about what I felt in many other posts. Was totally irrelevant.

Coming to your response. I completely agree on a lot of things you've said. However, I feel like a lot of the members in the forum are distributing the faults of the failed marriage because they do love the leads together. However from an integral vision, I'm not joking when I say Jatin would be a better husband for Sonakshi at this stage. He seems well balanced and can give her the respect she deserves, in fact even Sonakshi feels so comfortable that she is so vulnerable in front of him as the precap showed. She hasn't even exposed this much to Dev.

So yeah, the chemistry sells, but I think at the current track, it is the only thing that is keeping the show going.
Kaustuv thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#6
My two cents , frankly if the leads were not eye pleasing with crackling chemistry, I don't think I would have watched it. Story can be very mature, good but in absence of good leads it dosenot entice me. I would not have been so into this show like joining if is because of all the actors and off course the story. If it wasnot for actors I would have stopped long time back as the story started trending towards illogical, OTT way.
I still want Dev to be Sona helper though indirectly and be aware about his daughter and am waiting to be surprised by CV cause I signed up for a love story between Dev n Sonakshi together not with new partners.So if the cv start glorifying Jatin at the cost of Dev n promote Jatin Sona marraige I will say goodbye . I still have hope that all this crappy fest Cassanova title Dev has built is a facade to fool likes of Ishwari,RR and Vikky n Elena is aware of it. Cause my hero is Dev and during leap they had said basic characteristic of the characters are still same with some differences. Don't think cv will change basic character of dev. Dev was shown to still care for Ishwari without her knowledge and am waiting for cv to reveal that for Sona.

Ishwari is delusional plain mad but even Bijoy is becoming adamant,egoistic and intolerable. He has formulated a opinion against Dev and is making it between him n dev not Sonakshi n dev. Dev Sona and Soha as a family is impossible for him whereas caring parent would leave the decision to her daughter. its because of him even Soha has a facade now.
Becca thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: AngelsFlyAlone

Imagine if one of the leads, Shaheer or Erica weren't playing the lead roles, or that the chemistry wasn't so surreal and they didn't light up the screen?

How many people would actually think that they are both equally to blame and say Bijoy is as worse as Ishwari?

Also, its wonderful* to see people misuse the word feminism so frequently in this forum.
Feminism, rather, intersectional feminism is the belief in equality of all race, gender, sexuality, cultural background and everything. It is equality. Feminism isn't necessarily just fighting for women rights (its the fem part of the word that causes so much confusion).

Anyways, just saw stuff blow up on a post about all this negativity. Wanna really see what people think.


*wonderful: not remotely close to wonderful


Very true. It's because of the lead actors' charisma and acting prowess that we are so deeply discussing who is right and who is wrong. Dev or Sonakshi? I have never seen a serial evoking such strong emotions and pro, anti teams and the tug of war between them. Amazing.

Samanalyse thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: AngelsFlyAlone


Also, its wonderful* to see people misuse the word feminism so frequently in this forum.
Feminism, rather, intersectional feminism is the belief in equality of all race, gender, sexuality, cultural background and everything. It is equality. Feminism isn't necessarily just fighting for women rights (its the fem part of the word that causes so much confusion).


You are right; there is a frequent misuse of the word feminism on this forum, and in the internet in general. As you rightly pointed out, it's a movement that seeks universal equality. What we need to remember though, is that femnism is also a movement that is constantly evolving. Intersectional feminism is a more recent part of that evolution, the idea that feminism, or equality, can look very different to different people, and that it is not up to one group of women to decide what feminism or equality means. That is why intersectionality is all about inclusiveness -- it allows the discussion, for example, of why women might choose to wear a burqa or a hijab when it seems like a symbol of patriarchy to other women, or how even the definition of "woman" needs to be expanded to include trans-women and how, even though we are all women, we have to acknowledge that some of us enjoy more privilege than others becasue of race or orientation.

This show certainly has its regressive elements (because I am politically very liberal, and no media in any language really matches up to my ideal portrayal), but for the most part, I see it as a win for feminism on Indian TV, because of the variety and complexity of female characters, and because of the believable fallibility of the male characters. Most importantly, this show addresses a very sensitive issue for Indian society -- the toxic mother-son relationship, and dismantles the ideal of "mother" we have worshipped for so long. I don't see the show promoting Ishwari's behaviour as much as I see it exploring her character as a template for so many Indian mothers, who suffer under the dictat that they are not allowed to express their feelings but must maintain the appearance of selfless paragons of sacrifice all of their lives. Ishwari's character, shows us the ugly results of the repressed emotions many of these women nurse, and how they manifest as manipulation, fear, bitterness, and envy. Their sons become their eyes and ears to a world that they are cut off from, and they feel strongly entitled to his loyalty. Ishwari is an incredibly strong and intelligent woman stuck in system that disadvantages her, so she finds indirect ways to exercise her will.

The sons of these strong, dominating mothers are always double-edged swords. On the one hand, they usually have an inherent respect for women, because they have seen their mothers do everything a man would, but on the other, they also have this possibly toxic co-dependence. I have argued and stand by the assertion that Dev is the most feminist male lead I have seen on Indian TV. I am aware that not many share this opinion, and I am certainly not erasing his other glaring flaws (people pleasing, short-term thinking to name a few), but he does have a fundamental belief in the parity of men and women. Between the two, I would say Dev was the one who more clearly expressed the desire for a progressive and equal marriage, while Sona set out on her mission to impress Ishwari and be the perfect Dixit bahu. If anything I think Dev overestimated Sona's capabilities, which led him to take such a laid back approach to her integration into the household. Sona could have been more open about her difficulties, and Dev could have been less obtuse.

Now, coming to Bijoy, I think it's unfair to use the term "compare" when talking about Bijoy and Ishwari. It's not a race about who was better or worse as a parent, but more about understanding how their respective ideals and actions affected their kids. I found two things Bijoy did highly upsetting from day one. The first was his reaction to Saurabh's business. Why was it so embarassing for him to be selling lingerie if he was doing honest business? That was incredibly judgmental and anti-feminist thinking on Bijoy's part. Second, Bijoy never accepted Sona and Dev as a unit, integral for Sona's happiness. He always saw Sona's happiness as an individual and Dev was either in support or against it. Asha on the other hand, had her finger on the pulse where she understood that Sona's long-term happiness lay in fulfilling this relationship with Dev, so it was important to protect them as a unit to protect Sona's happiness.

Bijoy held his children to arbitrary standards of success, and in that way, was kind of like the second-wave of feminists who thought they could define feminism based on their experience alone. Bijoy has excellent values as a person, but he just needs to check his privilege; he has had education, family support, and lifelong stability but he was expecting the same standard of behaviour from people who had none of those privileges. I am not suggesting that Bijoy didn't work hard or didn't earn his keep, but he needs to acknowledge what helped him get there. Asha that way had a much more intersectional approach, understanding that everyone doesn't express themselves in the same way because they have such different experiences. In the end, feminism is about not judging people, no matter how much their views oppose your own, no matter if you see that they are reproducing a system that oppresses them. The first step to change is preparing yourself to listen to views that might challenge your own, and accepting that your views are not universal but shaped by your particular experiences.

In the end, this story is a win for feminism becasue it is raising these questions in the first place, instead of leaving us to be comfortable in our own beliefs. If it does nothing else, I am happy that these discussions opened up.
Edited by Samanalyse - 8 years ago
pkbdas61 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#9
Honestly, if the two leads were not on the show, I would not be watching this show. They are the reason I am here and nothing more.
Regarding feminism, it is a state of mind and nothing to do with sex. I have seen some of the most emancipated feminists who are not female. I have seen some of the worst feminists who are female. This topic itself is worth a separate thread.

In a nutshell, in today's world, the word more appropriate is 'humanists'! Nothing to do with male or female. Treat people for who and what they are.
AngelsFlyAlone thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: pkbdas61

Honestly, if the two leads were not on the show, I would not be watching this show. They are the reason I am here and nothing more.

Regarding feminism, it is a state of mind and nothing to do with sex. I have seen some of the most emancipated feminists who are not female. I have seen some of the worst feminists who are female. This topic itself is worth a separate thread.

In a nutshell, in today's world, the word more appropriate is 'humanists'! Nothing to do with male or female. Treat people for who and what they are.


Couldn't agree more! Bang on! Actually, I feel like this whole term feminists as you said would've been on a much higher scale if it was humanists instead because people in this forum are bashed for being feminists as jobless people who want to prove women are more superior. Women are most definitely not superior. Everyone is equal.

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