what is somya's actual condition?

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Tejaswini Wenham

@tejaswiniwenham

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

hi everyone, so i have been following this show for a long time but i feel like im missing something. so from what i understand kinnars or hijra are more of a sect who are primarily male who leave their sexuality behind or men who are born without their male parts, known as penile or testicular agenesis- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_agenesis_and_testicular_agenesis#Causes

so why would they insist on taking soumya? the men born with this disorder, look male, they grow facial hair and are generally very frail health-wise and physically stunted. they dont look like a girl with boobs and all- without a sex change. and human beings cannot be born completely hermaphrodite- physically possessing both equal male and female parts, intersex children are usually born with a more functional organ and usually thats what the doctors suggest parents to raise them as. and if they go for surgery, they usually go by that specification. so what is soumya's case? what kind of intersex issue is her problem? it cant be klinefelter which causes sterilization as that is usually detected at puberty and not birth. its clearly a visible physical deformity detectible from birth but she clearly has a VERY female orientation- she has breast and looks exactly like a girl, doesnt seem to have any other problem that plague intersex people that may require hormone therapy, so for all we know, she could have a functional uterus as well and only a physical deformity that could be fixed if she so chooses with a surgery. In most cases, the treatment means that you can carry on with a regular sex life and for most intersex people with primarily female orientation, they can even have children- its not easy or common- many cases require ivf or surrogacy but definitely not an unheard miracle either. I personally view it as an obstruction to fertility like any other.

so i dont understand- why do they think she's a kinnar? shes intersex may be but how can she be a kinnar when she naturally has all the girl attributes? they seem to have massively confused being intersex with being kinnar- the two only go hand in hand if a MALE is born eunuch- with all other phenotypical attributes of a MALE. they dont just grow up looking like a curvy woman just because they are missing a penis or a testicle- they just look pre-pubescent but with facial hair and NOONE mistakes pre-pubescent males for hot post puberty females. AND they are rarely ever born that way- with penile agenesis- about 1 in 5 million births, even given India's population there are only may be 200 of them, whereas the kinnar population is A LOT more. they dont even seem to know the meaning of being a kinnar and chale aaye thats just ridiculous and highly offensive. its like trump giving a bhashan on all the problems african americans face- they have no idea it seems as of now.

kinnars are a social group, and mostly eunuchs by choice or circumstances rather than intersex people! i have previously worked with kinnar communities and was glad that the show was throwing some much needed light on the community! but now, idk why rashmi has decided to "educate" on a mamla that she clearly has NO idea about? she is disseminating the completely WRONG information. the story wouldve made a lot more sense if harman was the kinnar, not soumya. i really love HaYa and the story from an intersex perspective- it wouldve been very enlightening for most audience who have the common misconception that kinnars are hermaphrodites or intersex. but this is just bs, if they show her as a kinnar, then thats just nonsense and kind of a mockery of men who are born with this condition and people in general with intersex traits. seriously cvs, just google kinnar and intersex and it should be pretty clear. hijras are eunuch, eunuchs are still male and dont naturally just look like hot women such as rubina dilaik- they may look like hot men though, all eunuchs are intersex but not all intersex people are eunuchs. see cvs? easy! here are some links to educate yourselves RS writing team!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)#Gender_and_sexuality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Edited by tejaswiniwenham - 8 years ago

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sparklingeyes

@sparklingeyes

Inactive

Posted: 8 years ago

Hii dear

Actually in India for both transgender and intersex the hindi term is kinnar

N especially in rural side where people r not much educated medically they take both condition as same

So what they r showing right now in the show is not really wrong bcoz TG groups take intersex children to live with them

N soon I think in the show they will surely show more abt saumya's condition n even the treatment making her capable of having a normal married life

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Tejaswini Wenham

@tejaswiniwenham

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: sparklingeyes
Hii dear
Actually in India for both transgender and intersex the hindi term is kinnar
N especially in rural side where people r not much educated medically they take both condition as same
So what they r showing right now in the show is not really wrong bcoz TG groups take intersex children to live with them
N soon I think in the show they will surely show more abt saumya's condition n even the treatment making her capable of having a normal married life

if they do, then that would be great. thats really interesting to know that they take all kinds of intersex children in. most communities are usually male focused or atleast the communities in mumbai i was working with were mostly men who'd been castrated when young or had some were intersex of male birth or some other form of genital mutilation and felt safer in their female identity. i just hate the whole concept of a 'she-male' that they are associated with. its just not true. most dont have 'both part' its extremely unlikely to have that and those children develop a myriad of other issues health wise. i do appreciate the core of this issue so they should really show the difference.

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Silpa

@Silpa20

Stunner

+ 9

Posted: 8 years ago

Soumya is definitely an intersex cannot be a transgender we all know that and soumya's problem is most probably curable.More about soumya 's problem should be shown to clear the doubt of the viewers regarding TG and IS.

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SRK999

@SRK999

Explorer

Posted: 8 years ago

Hi frnd I love your post.. Ur questions r r8..but actually this is the main issue nd msg for our society. If there is any sexual disorder frm childhood, ppl only think tht the kid is neither a boy nor a girl but a kinnar..they nvr try to solve the prblm through medical consultant nd all...they always try to hide all sex oriented issue.. Tht leads to destroy so many beautiful lifes...I really thankful to RS for bringing such a sensible topic nd wish ppl will aware abt it with opn mind

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naaznin

@naaznin

Sparkler

+ 10

Posted: 8 years ago

the word transgender is nt even once used in d show its jst used by media articles..

in show have jst used d word kinnar which means saumya is eunuch..n she has external male parts...bt d funny thing is she doesnt have any male feature inspite of having male hormone secretion..

u r correct dat being eunuch is a male problem n nt female bt jst to make d show acceptable to audience dey have casted a beautiful girl as kinnar n all d saayan n guruma , kareena n all r women only in real life...🤣

i cn bet on wat u wrote here nt even one percent knowledge RS creatives wud b having..dey jst choose a concept put d saas bahu beta drama n show is ready to serve...

dey jst gave d audience which is acceptable to dem..if instead of rubina a boy wud b playing d role .no body wud have accepted d jodis n dere wud b jst trolls..

u r correct dat male lead shud b eunuch as its male problem nt females...bt to make females lead bechari n make it female oriented show dey put d eunch thing in female lead which is absurd.

d show is jst full of loop holes right form nimmi nt telling saumya, saumya knwing wat is kinna bt zero knwledge abt herslef, no knwledge of periods or male n female parts (its nt necssary to go to school to learn all dese.. she has frnds in neighbourhood .in a span of 18 yrs she never saw any baby hw cum its possible..) harman easy acceptance for saumya, saaya's obsession wid saumya , saumya making paratha after kwning her truth rather than going into severe depression..doesnt make sense...

moreover any kind of sex change operatn wud b disgusting to show as dis will jst confuse d viwer who will start thinking dat kinnar prblm cn b treated wid opertn which is nt possbile..if kinnars cn b treated wid opertn den dere wud b no third gender in d world..n d show is abt accepting third gender d way dey r so why is operation even needed...

d simple thing is u cant expect science , reality, logic, law from indian shows esp if its from RS or EK camp..🤪.

Edited by naaju - 8 years ago

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sara rafeek

@Ooolalala

Stunner

+ 4

Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: naaju
the word transgender is nt even once used in d show its jst used by media articles..
in show have jst used d word kinnar which means saumya is eunuch..n she has external male parts...bt d funny thing is she doesnt have any male feature inspite of having male hormone secretion..

u r correct dat being eunuch is a male problem n nt female bt jst to make d show acceptable to audience dey have casted a beautiful girl as kinnar n all d saayan n guruma , kareena n all r women only in real life...🤣

i cn bet on wat u wrote here nt even one percent knowledge RS creatives wud b having..dey jst choose a concept put d saas bahu beta drama n show is ready to serve...
dey jst gave d audience which is acceptable to dem..if instead of rubina a boy wud b playing d role .no body wud have accepted d jodis n dere wud b jst trolls..

u r correct dat male lead shud b eunuch as its male problem nt females...bt to make females lead bechari n make it female oriented show dey put d eunch thing in female lead which is absurd.

d show is jst full of loop holes right form nimmi nt telling saumya, saumya knwing wat is kinna bt zero knwledge abt herslef, no knwledge of periods or male n female parts (its nt necssary to go to school to learn all dese.. she has frnds in neighbourhood .in a span of 18 yrs she never saw any baby hw cum its possible..) harman easy acceptance for saumya, saaya's obsession wid saumya , saumya making paratha after kwning her truth rather than going into severe depression..doesnt make sense...

moreover any kind of sex change operatn wud b disgusting to show as dis will jst confuse d viwer who will start thinking dat kinnar prblm cn b treated wid opertn which is nt possbile..if kinnars cn b treated wid opertn den dere wud b no third gender in d world..n d show is abt accepting third gender d way dey r so why is operation even needed...

d simple thing is u cant expect science , reality, logic, law from indian shows esp if its from RS or EK camp..🤪.

@bold 1 The word kinnar is applies for both transponders and intersex. A person who is intersex have problem with their reproductive system. I don't know if you seen it or not but many people shared their story after watching shakti. This one intersex woman shared her story and was inspired by the show to depict such a bold concept on television. That woman was intersex but she was really beautiful. Intersex is a curable condition but see our society is not very much educated on this. If a person doesnt fit into male or female then they are right away considered a kinnar (transgender) but transgender isn't the only definition of a kinnar! hope you understand

@bold 2 Kareena is not a woman. She is a kinnar in real life too. They have casted kinnars in the show too. If you have followed the show or this forum then you should have known that

@bold 3 How do you know RS have done no research? Were you with her while she was doing this research. Ohh well I will give it to her only on introducing such concept on television. At least she has guts to experiment and not show a docile female being tortured by a male lead. The show isn't even a saas bahu show. Its a love story between normal person and kinnar. Family drama is there but its about how their family affects them as characters and couple. Its not saas bahu show. Again you should know that if you follow the show.

@bold 4 Can you tell which science book does it say that. I am a biology major and from my research I can say that an intersex can be both male and females and kinnars.

@bold 5 Soumya has always been isolated from the rest. No school, not even going out with friends, not going outside at all. If a person has never been told about the world how do you expect them to know about period or human anatomy system by themselves. No one knows them by themselves!

@bold 6 Harman didnt accept her as wife or lover. He is helping her due to humanity that is much more different than accepting her as a wife. According to him, everyone has right to live in the society even kinnars. Everyone reacts to issues differently. People do the most weirdest things when they get a big shock of their life. That is according to the studies done.

@bold 7 who said that? Intersex is a condition which is very much treatable. The problem is the stigma which the society attached with any kind of third gender. That doesnt give people a chance to explore more into this issue. Shakti is to change that! So far its been successful.

Kudos to RS for making a show like shakti. RS and Ekta have their own share of good shows! Unlike some other producers who are busy making love hate saga and copy paste same storyline for each show!

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naaznin

@naaznin

Sparkler

+ 10

Posted: 8 years ago

@saara i dnt undrstnd one thing why do fans want saumya to be shown as intersex ..from d very start its shown dat saumya is a kinnar n fans jst want her to get treated so dey want her to be shown as intersex..bt shud nt she b accepted d way she is...

moreover she is having external male reproductive part dat means testicles or penis which is responsible for development of secondary sexual characters..hw cum she luks so normal den..

I have found that when a child is born of third gender, it is easily identified at birth.

Doctor or mid wife identify third gender child by First they have a very small penis n testicles as compared to male born babies and secondly immediately behind the penis is a vagina without the labia majoria covering it .

This is the classic tell tale signs of a third gender baby but also it will be much later around puberty as dere will b display of some female characteristics and others male n i wud have luvd if a real kinnar wud b casted as saumya...why a female..

n to learn abt sexuality u dnt need to go to school..saumya is nt living a jungle or isolated beach she has married frnds hw cum she never discussed anything...

hw much u justify d show is full of loopholes datswhy so many ppl have doubts...

n if in other shows male leads r torturing females here father, mother in law n kinnars r torturing ..wats d difference...at least in love n hate shows female leads also torture men dey r nt sati savitri bt here saumya endures all silently which i dnt like..

n i will nt argue much..

Edited by naaju - 8 years ago

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Tejaswini Wenham

@tejaswiniwenham

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

Hi naaju and saraa, very interesting debate here. whilst im glad that rashmi is showing something so bold, it is also extremely important that the topic is handled with great care. from my knowledge of it, you may know better than me ofcourse, but hijra or kinnar communities do take intersex children BUT predominantly MALE intersex children- so male children (they also usually visit homes when male children are born to both check the baby and give blessings) who have some form of ambiguity with their genitals or even have a vagina around their penis at times but they look male, they may feel female and thus choose to live like that but they mostly look male or have male attributes at the very least like an adams apple or facial hair or a very deep voice. them casting rubina who is so obviously female and curvaceous and petite is so strange- she looks so female that i would say she probably is female with some outward genital ambiguity but completely functioning internal female organs at tops- clearly no hormone issues or anything. so they should clarify that. thus im shocked that the hijra community- again from all i have read, they only take in male intersex children- intersex babies do belong to the 'third gender' but they almost always have a functional gender and a cosmetic one, both dont function- so they are scientifically either male or female- are interested in her at all. saaya for example is played by a female- dr ekta singh ji but she modulates her voice, shes tall and shes gained weight to emphasize that shes a male born with female genital traits. also it is the populous agenda to say that they are all born this way cos it gathers more sympathy from people who dont necessarily want to accept that people can become eunuchs through circumstance or even choice- kinnar community are not majority born into it. i dont think they should have to justify how they came about and simply be accepted for what they are now- no matter what they were born as but most ppl unfortunately dont see it that way and thus activist groups propagate the born this way philosophy. it helps ppl sympathize so no issues. but also being eunuch and intersex is NOT the same thing. only 1 in 5mill male births are born eunuchs, male intersex variations are a little more and true hermaphroditism is almost unheard of but still not significant enough to justify the million and half of kinnars. so i just think they need to clarify what her condition is. kinnars come in varieties and so do intersex but if we're talking about female intersex, then its a different ball game and should be treated as such. theres a lot of debate regarding this topic and the show should clarify the confusions. and as for accepting a third sex, it should depend on what the person feels, if she wants to live as a female and has all the internal organs to do so with some cosmetic procedure, she should be at liberty to do so and the same with males or if they are comfortable living as a third sex thats cool too. i have a friend here in the UK who has a cosmetic vagina (non-functional) but otherwise fully male and hes living his life as a gay male but prefers the third sex acknowledgement and is cool with his body- he can even get someone pregnant if he chooses to as per the docs so really its a matter of perspective. soumya is clearly female in many more ways than one so it would b almost cruel if she could live as one but they make her choose to live as a third gender person to proove a point.

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naaznin

@naaznin

Sparkler

+ 10

Posted: 8 years ago

#10

@tejaswini

d main confusion arises becos everybdy knws rubina is a female n till nw all d movies n shows have shown cross dressers as kinnars..so ppl who have knowledge abt TG, Intersex or eunuch dey r trying to put their knowledge into d show n deduce wat is d actual condition of saumya...

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what is somya's actual condition?

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