What is that dharma that gives pain to everyone Bharat

shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#1
Guys I was literally whistling today. The words my ears wanted to hear from a protoganist in a show Bharat spoke.Once again Cvs showed ram's Maya. Yesterday it was told Bharat is jeevatma.we are asked to look at ram but he is paramatma.as he rightly says his responsibility is not limited to ayodhya but whole world. We have to look at Bharat the jeevatma who realizes that this kind of dharma that supports adharma is adharma and such dharma has to be changed. In that realization he makes effort. He brings the change. Ram does vachan palan. But nobody sees Bharat breaking vachan showing adharma can be broken only from inside.that question of Bharat about dharma is jeevatma realization that something has to be done to change it.no one tells Bharat to cut adharm with adharm. He does that restoring dharma. But look at arjun Krishna had to keep on telling him use adharma to bring down adharma.to kill karna Krishna had to tell abhimanyu before arjun fires the arrow. Adhering to dharma that gives adharm is paramatma way of telling jeevatma time for change. Initiate it.ram creates the illusion of not breaking maryada.But Bharat breaks what needs to be broken when he does that.
Edited by shruthiravi - 9 years ago

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Justlikethat1 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#2
Shruti, well written⭐️

I see the Ram-Bharat discussion as one that teaches us the various paths to the ultimate truth. Bharath's words to Ram were more based on the Dharam that looks at elder brothers as father figures. Bharath's Dharam makes him seek the truth with his brother and, to him, the ultimate truth is that his brother is the eldest and the most capable. Vachan or not, this truth cannot be altered and to Bharath, This would trump any vachans that derail it.

Ram wants Bharath to leave it to Paramathman to decide the course and consequence of ones actions and not see it curtailed to one's immediate sorrow, joy, kith, kin and praja. He wants Bharath to understand the ultimate truth that everything happens for a reason, whether we understand it or not. Our duty is to follow the truth without looking for the benefits we get following that path.


SriMaatangi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#3
From all this, there is one amazing truth: Ramayan and Mahabharat are inter-connected. Without one, understanding of the other is at the best superficial.
As Krishna says, and shows, we have to break Adharma from inside, not from out. If that is the case, Adharma is not completely destroyed.
Bharat understood what Ram was trying to say, and broke what needs to be broken 👏👏
avalonhigh1234 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#4
"To transform the world, we must begin with ourselves; and what is important in beginning with ourselves is the intention. The intention must be to understand ourselves and not to leave it to others to transform themselves or to bring about a modified change through revolution, either of the left or of the right. It is important to understand that this is our responsibility, yours and mine..."
J.Krishnamurti
Shruthi ,Bharat 's words did have the echo of the words quoted above, didn't it? He did change the prevalent customs of the time by not taking up the power but accepting the responsibilities of governance as per his brother's wishes...as a continuation of Shivji's inference about jeevatma and the paramatma, the paramatma did initiate the change required not directly but with the participation of the individual soul.
Shruthi as I have mentioned before this Ram is more complex in his character and actions than I have understood of him till now...and I thought only Krishna had that honour!😉
Savita
Edited by avalonhigh1234 - 9 years ago
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#5
@Savitha Ram has to be complex. I had felt that always. But the problem was I didn't understand where the complexity lay. Because I have never looked at Ramayan as interconnected, the way I have looked MB.
Because MB flows with incidents and we see Krishna Leela. We always see the Paramatma coming to the rescue. So its more like a belief, a trust is created. We all know the most beautiful scenes in MB are the ones where Vishnu comes in the prison assuring Devaki and Vasudev that he is going to be their eight born, when Panchali is protected by Krishna and finally Krishna removes the disc from the sun. It's a moment of faith restoration.
But Ram it was always linear. Ramayan was a linear story at every step. But what I am now understanding is, Krishna was Guru, he had to teach he had to give proof so that people follow the path. But Ram's actions were enough for others to realize and they worked to created proofs. So to understand Ram we have to look deeply into other characters of Ramayan. And yes of course the idea of Vishnu.
@Shrutha yes Ramayan and MB cannot be differentiated. But I feel MB has to be understood first, so that we can understand Ramayana in the right sense. Because the knowledge paramatma gives to Jeevatma happens in MB and I feel as humans of Kaliyug we need to get the knowledge first and then only we can understand the actions of Ram.
@justlikethat yes Ram is asking Bharat to do his duty, the duty that the father has asked him to do irrespective of he wants it or not. The mantle has fallen on him and he has to rise to the occasion. It was also like telling you cannot expect paramatma to help you if you don't take the right action
avalonhigh1234 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#6
Right Shruthi, The Dashavtaar has always been more than what it shows. Matasya avatar had 'Deliverence' as its central theme; Kurma had 'support for one's actions ;Varaha had the 'savior aspect';Narisimha had 'bhakti';Vamana avatar was 'subjugation of ego' ;Prashuram was about the aspect of 'justice' and Ram had the 'lead by example' aspect and Krishna as you stated, was the 'Guru'.
So Ram had to walk on the straight path and I have realized that is where his complexity of character comes to play. So the deviation and change from the norm, sort of never comes from him directly. It comes from those surrounding him...SKR and our discussions have highlighted this aspect in my mind.
Savita
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#7
Yes Savitha Ram doesn't break anything, but yet he breaks everything that is not needed. Ram not breaking anything is the Maya which we had never thought about as for us Krishna breaking things was the Maya we understood.
I guess only Sita's perspective can bring this Maya. After all it is Shakthi his sister who always comes with Vishnu as his Maya and who but a woman can understand another woman 😃
ShasthaaPriyaa thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

Yes Savitha Ram doesn't break anything, but yet he breaks everything that is not needed. Ram not breaking anything is the Maya which we had never thought about as for us Krishna breaking things was the Maya we understood.

I guess only Sita's perspective can bring this Maya. After all it is Shakthi his sister who always comes with Vishnu as his Maya and who but a woman can understand another woman 😃


Sruthi can you explain what you mean by Ram not breaking anything yet breaking everything that is not needed??And what you said about Maya in this comment??I did not quite get it yet I wish to understand it.😔
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#9
@etrernal Ram does the vachan palan. So he is not breaking any rules, maryadas set in raghukul. Vachan is of utmost importance in Raghukul. But what happens when he does vachan palan his brother reacts to the adharma. He doesn't keep the vachan or denies the first boon to Kaikeyi. So the parampara of vachan palan is broken in raghukul not by Ram but by Bharath. Since everyone is looking at Ram no one is seeing this breaking. And that is the Maya. Why Ram did Vachan Palan, so that in his vachan palan seeing the adharm his brother takes action. Ram sets the direction. Bharath takes the action. Maya is the fact that no one looks at why Ram did what he did.
Another instance is Swayamvar. Actually Ram is having a love marriage. According to various versions Ram sees Sita in the garden and likes her which is reciprocated. But Ram has not come to marry in Mithila. But Vishwamitra asks Ram to lift the Dhanush. Again a woman gets her choice but he ensures she is respected at his home. That's why he goes only after Vishwamitra asks him to go. There is always a question. Why he waits. Cant he just take the dhanush. He waits to get the proper shield for his would be wife. It looks like Ram won Sita's hand, but in fact he is Sita's choice.
Hope I clarified somewhat.
vipraja26 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#10
Interesting views are very well reflected in your post Shruti!
Indeed the connection between the 2 great epics are so beUtiful and gives us immense happiness as we seem to understand them .
It seems like God wanting to make it further easy for the humans to understand - the ways of right living came down as Krishna ( after having lived the life as Ram earlier ) !
Also , from the tretayuga to Dwaprayuga and further to Kaliyuga , it needed more than just setting example by way of living ( Ram ), explanations to the more confused minds of humans and reassurances of his assistance to those who sought his protection.

The point about Maya was very interesting ! In Ramayana a lot of information is in sukshma form and in krishnaavatar it is more evident and Krishna even goes further by explaining in his own words too!

Surely if such epics are taught and discussed from early ages , the society will be rid of a lot of negativity that iN turn leads to various crimes of all sorts !
There is lot to learn from such works than whatever is being trust into young minds today in the name of modern education .
there is enough for every grade to learn and understand and benefit in their life !

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