Y'all get really serious!

riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#1
Hey ojaswini😊
 
Welcome to the forum. I get what you mean , its difficult to really understand why sometimes we behave like the way you pointed. i think this forum is weird place ,you will find that in almost every forum here ,same story of them being obsessed with certain characters and when it is MB ,then obsession multiplies because this is something that we have heard from our childhood..our perceptions are so strong that we dont want to accept at times there can be other perceptions too.
 
I like your title of postπŸ˜›..  if you have faced such situation, i can understand as i have too but since this show is not much abt MB so we come here more for fun than show discussions..πŸ˜† so lets hope this forum wont be like the earlier ones..πŸ€“
 
Edited- And about Karna and Draupadi , well I love /adore /respect Karna but i do like draupadi as well.. 😊..there is no rule that says you cant love both..πŸ˜›
Edited by riti4u - 8 years ago

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amritat thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#2
Hi dear...
I believe you are Mahi's sister. Anyway...a great post...though I have to admit that I myself fall under the category of the people you pointed out...πŸ˜†...probably I am the worst of the kind...n I have absolutely no shame in saying it...πŸ˜†

Now coming to why people get so serious?
I guess that is the beauty of the epic. The epic is so complicated n some situations are so real, despite the apparent supernatural element that people who read it...get engrossed in it...n start relating to the characters. In fact...the best quality of Mahabharat is that...EVERY character has some perspective n hence there are so many opinions regarding it. Three yrs ago...I too wondered...y do people behave as if Karna, Arjun n all are their relatives...πŸ˜† but as the days passed by...I too started doing wat I once condemned...that is...fanaticism.
 
This fanaticism is there everywhere...If you actively participate in social media...you will realize there are fanatics EVERYWHERE.
When people argue for Salman vs SRK...then they behave as if Salman or SRK are their life partners.
When Maria Sharapova said she didnt know Sachin Tendulkar...then her twitter account was bomarded with hate posts from millions of Indians...Yes...such is the power of fandom.
 Be it Rahul Gandhi vs Modi...or Federer vs Nadal or any such debates...people just get frustrated n behave as if all these people are their own relatives...πŸ˜†
I recently discovered that there is similar atrocity regarding Greek epics as well...
Achilles vs Hector...

Yeah...we all are bunch of crazy people who do crazy stuff wen we get online...And I get mad...or to be precise I feel Kolaveri Di wen I see anyone bashing or criticizing Draupadi...πŸ˜†
But I assure you...I am not this crazy in my real life as I am in Mahabharat debates...πŸ˜† I am pretty much boring n simple offline...πŸ˜‰


Coming to K-D...High five!!
I too LOVED the pre-Swamvar K-D scene...and the whole forum knows how I see Jambu fruit.
Despite that...I dont know y I LOVED the scene...In fact I saw Karna in Gautam Rode for the first time in that scene...I dont know y people created such a fuss...but I loved it.
It was an interaction between two humans without any romantic angle.

As for opposite fandom...honestly I never knew wat was a fan group before I joined IF. India Forums n later other social media taught me in the worst possible way...how various fans groups have their orientation. So yeah...there is no hard n fast rule...but it is kind of psychological that if one loves X character to the core...then he or she would not prefer those characters that hurt X.
Not any rule...just a trend. This trend has sunk so deep in our systems after the debates...that now we start categorizing each other as X fan or Y fan. Dont know about other enlightened souls here but I certainly do...though not with ANY bad intention. Just a psychological disorientation, I guess...πŸ˜†
But at the same time, I also believe it is possible to appreciate a character to a great extent without pulling down another.

Personally...I grew up believing that Karna's biggest was Arjun...
But social media taught me that Karna's biggest rival was not Arjun, but Draupadi...🀣
That is evident in the number of K-D posts in the forum...I rarely came across something that talked of Karna or Arjun...atleast in this forum. I had expected that we would see constructive citation wars between Karna n Arjun...regarding their warrior skills...their weapons, etc...but wat I found was πŸ˜†

Phew...😎
Enough of gyaans...
Sorry for the long post full of gyaans...πŸ˜† Finally got a post where I felt I should pour my heart out.
I hope that you never get into this hell like I did 3 yrs before...bcoz once you start FEELING for a character in Mahabharat...it is difficult to undo it. πŸ˜­
Edited by amritat - 8 years ago
Mahiima16 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#3
Whoa 😎 what a post πŸ‘
But u know right I'm one of them who gets damn serious but only when someone is discussing about Draupadi! And I know Draupadi isn't my parent/sibling/friend but still but anyways I'm trying to change myself 😳 I've stopped fighting for ArDi!
Even at home if someone says anything against Draupadi I get so serious that my mom said-"are you the reincarnation of Draupadi?" 🀣
See u know I don't mind anyone saying "I hate Draupadi/I dislike this about _____ Draupadi" but I get serious only when someone says something about her character. I fight only with such people who have such a sick mentality that they can't even stop calling out names for a lady who died 5K years ago! I fight with all the judgemental as*holes! That's it! πŸ˜ƒ

Gosh I don't have that much capacity to write such long comments like u and Amrita Di πŸ˜† @amrita Di how do u do this 🀣Edited by Mahiima16 - 8 years ago
amritat thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: Mahiima16

Whoa 😎 what a post πŸ‘
But u know right I'm on of them who gets damn serious but only when someone is discussing about Draupadi! And I know Draupadi isn't my parent/sibling/friend but still but anyways I'm trying to change myself 😳 I've stopped fighting for ArDi!
Even at home if someone's says anything against Draupadi I get so serious that my mom said-"are you the reincarnation of Draupadi?" 🀣
See u know I don't mind anyone saying "I hate Draupadi/I dislike this about _____ Draupadi" but I get serious only when someone says something about her character. I fight only with such people who have such a sick mentality that they can't even stop calling out names for a lady who died 5K years ago! I fight with all the judgement as*holes! That's it! πŸ˜ƒ

Gosh I don't have that much capacity to write such long comments like u and Amrita Di πŸ˜† @amrita Di how do u this 🀣


So true dear...🀣
We all are crazy people...I too feel that someday Draupadi's ghost might come down on Earth seeing my craziness...🀣
I too dont have problem with with opinions n constructive criticism...but I do have a lot of problem with bashing. Sometimes we all lose track of whether we are criticizing or bashing.

I too have stopped fighting for Ardi long back...no point arguing anymore.


As for writing long, long posts...well Mahi...it's love...true love that drives me...
True love for Draupadi...πŸ˜‰
And if it drives you any more crazy then I woukd like to tell you that I type 90% of my posts from phone.
Very rarely I use laptop these days...Just for Draupadi...


Mahiima16 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: amritat



So true dear...🀣
We all are crazy people...I too feel that someday Draupadi's ghost might come down on Earth seeing my craziness...🀣
I too dont have problem with with opinions n constructive criticism...but I do have a lot of problem with bashing. Sometimes we all lose track of whether we are criticizing or bashing.

I too have stopped fighting for Ardi long back...no point arguing anymore.


As for writing long, long posts...well Mahi...it's love...true love that drives me...
True love for Draupadi...πŸ˜‰
And if it drives you any more crazy then I woukd like to tell you that I type 90% of my posts from phone.
Very rarely I use laptop these days...Just for Draupadi...



🀣 What if Draupadi is seeing our craziness😈
Well ur love can clearly be seen πŸ‘
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#6
Hi, ojaswiniprinces

Thank you for your post here.

I agree w/ you that there are many versions and interpretations of the MB, and just b'cos one is a fan of one character doesn't mean that one has to loathe others.  However, there is a valid difference b/w admiring a multiple range of characters, vs admiring the dynamics b/w them.

Like for instance, it's perfectly valid for one to be a fan of both Karna AND Draupadi.  However, it's well known that neither had any soft corners for each other, and any depictions that betray that would earn the resentment of their fans.  

From Draupadi's end, she clearly declined to marry Karna if he won the contest (I know the different rendentions have different accounts varying from Karna not being there to him missing the target to Draupadi's objection.)  Between her marriage and her vastraharan, there was nothing b/w them, and after her vastraharan, when Karna called her a vaishya, she had no reason to have any feelings for Karna: indeed, any such sentiments would betray a lack of self-respect.  I'm not a Draupadi fan, but I can see how any Draupadi fan would resent such a message coming out of any show.

From Karna's end too, while he had his wrong doings against the Pandavas in the court, as well as his life long obsession w/ Arjun and hatred of the Pandavas, the reason HE gets sympathy is that he got a raw deal from his mother Kunti (incidentally, that's the only character that I fanatically LOATHE, and  where I don't usually show much tolerance for people who differ w/ me πŸ˜ˆπŸ˜†), was kept in the dark about his family secret throughout his life, and only revealed that to undermine his resolve as well as his confidence in the righteousness of his cause.  That's the reason people admire Karna.  There are also some who admire him due to the fact of him being born to Kunti - no point denying that.  So there are people who admire Karna for being what he became DESPITE being deprived of his rights as a Kaunteya, and then there are those who admire him for what he sacrificed once he got to know the secret about himself.

However, just b'cos Karna & Draupadi may be the most admired character for some people does not justify weaving a 'relationship' b/w them as this serial did - whether it was their interactions pre swayamvara, or Karna saving Draupadi from Sishupala from being raped.  In fact, given that this serial was ostensibly about Karna at the beginning - hence the name of the show - they could have avoided showing much of the Pandavas at all, and made this fully Karna centric.  They did it to some extent in showing Karna helping Dury abduct his wife, but by & large, they've disappointed.  They could have covered Karna's rule in Anga and even SHOWN some parivartan, however fictitious - they could have shown Karna giving equal rights to lower castes in terms of rights to well water and so on.  Instead, by showing too much of Arjun, as well as Karna-Draupadi-Krishna, they've totally ruined this show for their presumptive viewership - people who are first & foremost fans of Karna.  Like they have a Vrushali who is yet to marry Karna, but he already has a baby from his other wife Supriya.

Also, as you pointed out, there are many versions of things, but in this serial, they've butchered the character of most of the people in the show, and totally whitewashed others.  Like Bheeshma or Vidura were nowhere near as evil as depicted on this show.  Pandu never met Karna in his life, and Kunti was anything but a saint.  Krishna's primary relationship in this story was w/ the Pandavas: if one is interested in Krishna, a show on Karna is the wrong vehicle in which to pursue it.

The expectations that one had from this serial was that it would show the Mahabharat from Karna's POV - deal w/ his internal dilemmas re: his relationship w/ both Dury and the Pandavas.  Karna was 2 people before and after he got to know who he was.  Before he knew that he was Kunti's son, he was heroic in his own right, but happily supported Duryodhan in many of his plots against the Pandavas.  Once he was told who he was, he accepted that the Pandavas were wronged, but decided to pay off his debts to Duryodhan.  But at no time did he split w/ Duryodhan the way they depict in this serial, nor did he have a strong resentment @ the way the Pandavas had been treated.  And remember - everything they've shown TO DATE is before Karna is told by Krishna & Kunti who he is, and in that time period, he was an unapologetic supporter of Duryodhan.  If they wanted to show Karna as remorseful of his hatred of the Pandavas, it would ONLY have made sense AFTER those revelations, not before it.

In all those aspects, this serial has let us down
Edited by .Vrish. - 8 years ago
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Posted: 8 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Hi, ojaswiniprinces

Thank you for your post here.

I agree w/ you that there are many versions and interpretations of the MB, and just b'cos one is a fan of one character doesn't mean that one has to loathe others.  However, there is a valid difference b/w admiring a multiple range of characters, vs admiring the dynamics b/w them.

Like for instance, it's perfectly valid for one to be a fan of both Karna AND Draupadi.  However, it's well known that neither had any soft corners for each other, and any depictions that betray that would earn the resentment of their fans.  

From Draupadi's end, she clearly declined to marry Karna if he won the contest (I know the different rendentions have different accounts varying from Karna not being there to him missing the target to Draupadi's objection.)  Between her marriage and her vastraharan, there was nothing b/w them, and after her vastraharan, when Karna called her a vaishya, she had no reason to have any feelings for Karna: indeed, any such sentiments would betray a lack of self-respect.  I'm not a Draupadi fan, but I can see how any Draupadi fan would resent such a message coming out of any show.

From Karna's end too, while he had his wrong doings against the Pandavas in the court, as well as his life long obsession w/ Arjun and hatred of the Pandavas, the reason HE gets sympathy is that he got a raw deal from his mother Kunti (incidentally, that's the only character that I fanatically LOATHE, and  where I don't usually show much tolerance for people who differ w/ me πŸ˜ˆπŸ˜†), was kept in the dark about his family secret throughout his life, and only revealed that to undermine his resolve as well as his confidence in the righteousness of his cause.  That's the reason people admire Karna.  There are also some who admire him due to the fact of him being born to Kunti - no point denying that.  So there are people who admire Karna for being what he became DESPITE being deprived of his rights as a Kaunteya, and then there are those who admire him for what he sacrificed once he got to know the secret about himself.

However, just b'cos Karna & Draupadi may be the most admired character for some people does not justify weaving a 'relationship' b/w them as this serial did - whether it was their interactions pre swayamvara, or Karna saving Draupadi from Sishupala from being raped.  In fact, given that this serial was ostensibly about Karna at the beginning - hence the name of the show - they could have avoided showing much of the Pandavas at all, and made this fully Karna centric.  They did it to some extent in showing Karna helping Dury abduct his wife, but by & large, they've disappointed.  They could have covered Karna's rule in Anga and even SHOWN some parivartan, however fictitious - they could have shown Karna giving equal rights to lower castes in terms of rights to well water and so on.  Instead, by showing too much of Arjun, as well as Karna-Draupadi-Krishna, they've totally ruined this show for their presumptive viewership - people who are first & foremost fans of Karna.  Like they have a Vrushali who is yet to marry Karna, but he already has a baby from his other wife Supriya.

Also, as you pointed out, there are many versions of things, but in this serial, they've butchered the character of most of the people in the show, and totally whitewashed others.  Like Bheeshma or Vidura were nowhere near as evil as depicted on this show.  Pandu never met Karna in his life, and Kunti was anything but a saint.  Krishna's primary relationship in this story was w/ the Pandavas: if one is interested in Krishna, a show on Karna is the wrong vehicle in which to pursue it.

The expectations that one had from this serial was that it would show the Mahabharat from Karna's POV - deal w/ his internal dilemmas re: his relationship w/ both Dury and the Pandavas.  Karna was 2 people before and after he got to know who he was.  Before he knew that he was Kunti's son, he was heroic in his own right, but happily supported Duryodhan in many of his plots against the Pandavas.  Once he was told who he was, he accepted that the Pandavas were wronged, but decided to pay off his debts to Duryodhan.  But at no time did he split w/ Duryodhan the way they depict in this serial, nor did he have a strong resentment @ the way the Pandavas had been treated.  And remember - everything they've shown TO DATE is before Karna is told by Krishna & Kunti who he is, and in that time period, he was an unapologetic supporter of Duryodhan.  If they wanted to show Karna as remorseful of his hatred of the Pandavas, it would ONLY have made sense AFTER those revelations, not before it.

In all those aspects, this serial has let us down



WORD!! Vrish Bhai, you have spoken whatever I had to say.

I am a big Yagyaseni Draupadi fan. Hell, I have been named after her. But at the same time, Karna's dedication and passion towards his studies or the way he took the challenges, is something I admire from him, because I believe every character in Mahabharat is grey; they have shades of both good and bad.

Like Vrish Bhai said, the contest was controversial if taken on Karna's account. Then the only meeting they had was Vastraharan where he called her a vaishya and after being called characterless of a vaishya no woman would like that person, no matter if he is Mahadev himself or Vishnu himself.

I don't even remember Supriya's face in this, sorry. And we don't have any elaboration on Karna's rule in Anga. Everything and anything gets connected to Arjun, as if trying to draw a contrast. Krishna appears to be Karna Sakha rather than Phalguna Sakha. Don't get me wrong but Karna reacting more than Pandavas during VH was totally weird. The person who called her vaishya wouldn't feel so bad, but would have stopped it if he was feeling so tormented. And as far as I know Karna wasn't forced to call Draupadi as vaishya, was he?

K-D is something like angle of reflection not being equal to the angle of incidence. Physics laws have been broken here and there the general feelings would have made it impossible.

Kunti was not a saint and this is being whitewashed agreed. Karna spent his childhood with Kunti and Pandu or at least some hours with them, I never read it anywhere. I always believed that the rangbhoomi meet was the first. At the same time, like Bhai said characters got butchered, added (read Priyamvada) and what not.

There are a lot of instances the series has let us down. Malini incident, Indra v/s Surya for sons, the parivartan bhaav were all fiction of SidT, I believe.

Sorry if I offended you. Thanks a lot for giving me an opportunity to speak about this topic.
Brahmaputra thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#8

Arey wah!!!⭐️
Again a similar topic...πŸ˜†

Let me narrate an incident happened a few weeks ago. A guy was asking clarification on some points about Karna. I answered as much as I knew. As I was asked references, I gave them as well. In the end he told me, "dude, you tried your best but you cannot convince me to like Karna". I was like 😲.😲.🀣
This is how people behave. They are writing and reading as if they are doing it in sleep. He asked me something. I wrote him what I knew. I never asked him to believe me or accept all that I wrote. But he took it as I was trying to convince him, as if I was the one who approached him saying "sir, I have some points about Karna. Please read and see if you can accept them."🀣 What to tell this man?πŸ˜†
It is likely that this man is writing things ONLY to convince others and convert them into believing his POVs. He has some ideas which he wants others to accept. Otherwise, why did he even think and wrote me that? He even forgot that he was the one who asked me. I did not go and ask him. I replied writing only what I knew. I cannot write what I don't know. Convincing others is the last thing I imagine because that is interfering with someone's freedom.
After this incident, I stopped giving explanations on why my views on XYZ are the way they are. (Now I clearly understand Debroy) Who is reading? All are only reading ideas they already have. They don't even properly understand what others write. So I found no point in explaining beyond writing "that did not happen, this did not happen, this happened, etc etc". If someone is mad enough, he will read and see.πŸ˜†

Fan wars are only bigger extensions of the above example, as far as I can see. People already have ideas and they want them alone to be accepted as the truth. They only see their ideas in others, not others in their reality. Because they themselves are not sure of the validity of their views. So they try convincing others. All others cannot be fools. If others also accept those views, they must be true at some point and that proves these POVs true. This is some kind of auto-hypnosis!πŸ˜†
It is NOT the love for XYZ character responsible for this feeling "hurt" but sticking to the idea that "what I think alone must be right". Don't call it love. It is only inflated ego. Most people like a character as they have certain ideas about them. If these ideas are proved wrong, how are they going to like the character? Those who are still going to like the character even if their POVs are proved wrong, will NEVER argue and try to convince others. Those who are trying to convince others only love their own ideas, NOT the character. I say it because I love Arjuna with his all mistakes. I have not read the epic enough to defend Arjuna. I will never need to. I know I love Arjuna, whoever says whatever. I am aware that my ideas about him may be right today and wrong tomorrow. But my idea of Arjuna never affects the way I consider him.
Hence, in my understanding, all fan wars can be avoided if people try to see what the reality is, not what their ideas are.

Coming to K-D, nothing to say except that it is an insult to both Karna and Draupadi. People can have their opinions but it is good if they stop roaming around convincing others as if fanatic religious people are trying for conversion.😈

P.S. - Mr. X, I am sorry for narrating the incident here. But as these people don't know who you are, they won't ponder much on that. So be cheerful!!!😊Edited by Brahmaputra - 8 years ago
KURT15 thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#9
Jamy!! Wonderful post there, and I agree about the PoV and ego part!! As for me, the ones I like I shall always like, irrespective of whether they were right or wrong in a particular situation. And I feel its best not to explain why or to defend or to point out to someone why their perception is wrong. Its better to listen to others, to accept their points if they are valid. It might change my opinions, but not my feelings.
amankoushal thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#10
difference of opinions will always there
i don't understand why people always make
it a live or die matter
i have recently read two os one from ardi pov
and other from yudhistira pov
in ardi pov yudhistira manipulated arjun and draupadi for division of draupadi
in yudhistira pov he and kunti are totally innocent
and caught in the web of circumstances
the writers believe things which are contradictory
we can't say who is wrong or right
it is true that people take these discussions
not as a healthy discussion but as a matter of
their ego