..::Doubts & Discussions about Historical facts::.. - Page 90

Originally posted by: history_geek

Hi all..

Made a post about a novel - The Enchantress of Florence, of 2008, which reaches further back in history. The novel, which the author describes as his most researched, moves with astonishing speed and energy from the court of Emperor Akbar to Renaissance Florence in Europe, journeying through various destinations on the way.

The author pits East against West, explores assimilation and identity, and invites us to think about the power of storytelling and its role in defeating obscurantism and intolerance.

The book also talks about his wife - Jodha, whom the author describes as an ideal consort, with excellent qualities no other woman can possess. The author has tried his best to keep the readers engaged till the end about the "identity" of this lady. Sometimes she is kept in his dreams and sometimes she is a real figure who is loved by Akbar but disliked by his other wives. In the middle he clears that the wife of Akbar was Mariam-Uz-Zamani, who was Hira Kunwari of Amer..

Few Excerpts from the Novel:

...

No real woman was ever like that, so perfectly attentive, so undemanding. She was an impossibility, a fantasy of perfection. They feared her, knowing that, being impossible, she was irresistible. The king loved her best. They hated her for her theft of their histories. If they could have murdered her they would have done so, but until the emperor died himself, she was immortal.

...

She was not subservient. Akbar did not like subservient women. She would scold him first. How could he stay away so long? In his absence she had had to combat many plots. All was untrustworthy here. The very walls were filled with whispers. She fought them all and kept the palace safe against the day of his return, defeating the small, self-serving treacheries of the domestic staff, confounding the spying lizards hanging on the walls, stilling the scurry of conspiratorial mice.

Till the end, the author keeps us engaged and we do not know when she is present in dreams and when she comes out as a reality... I found the interview of the author more interesting to read as that was something history.

More excerpts are present in the post itself with an interview of the author...

Link :: Excerpts on Jodha Akbar | Enchantress of Florence + Author's Interview

Hi all,

Posted some interesting information about marriage of Salim and Maan Bai.

Direct Link > Marriage of Salim and Maan Bai

Post Contains Mughal Rajput accounts of this wedding.

It is interesting to note the huge dowry {those days it was a custom among royals} given by Raja Bhagwan Das, and equally amazing to note that Akbar ordered gold to be scattered all the way from Amer to Mughal capital , along the entourage of this princess.!!!

More is present in the post itself..

Putija,

thank you abhay! it shows how much respect akbar had for the rajput clan and indeed he was very happy with the marriage, i too have read somewhere that maan bai was akbar's favorite daughter in law!

Thanks for this post Abhay!

Daulat Shad was not the wife of the Delhi noble whom Akbar 'married'.
Her name was something else.

I also got confused initially reading on some sites about this, though, after finding it can be known she was not Daulat Shad.

Will add more in a post.

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

What a dream wedding! Abhay, modern designer weddings are still no match for this marriage of Prince Salim and Princess Maan Bai.

The dowry and the gifts exchanged between the two sides are beyond my wildest imagination. I can't even think what the value of 2 crores of silver coins would be today. Add to this, the vessels of gold and silver, the horses and elephants, the slaves and rich clothes and gems and all! Wow, I can hardly visualize all this.

Small though it was, Amer was RICH, not just rich, but ULTRA RICH! (In today's age, Raja Bhagwan Das may have had to explain his sources of income ;p)

No wonder, Akbar had set his eyes on Amer from the beginning and married the princess Heer Kunwari / Harka Bai, with all her conditions :) And was smart enough to fix the marriage of Salim too with another Ameri princess.

Akbar matched the Ameris by showering gold all the way from Amer to Lahore - how much would that be? Like tons and worth several crores, possibly!

Going beyond such low-brow thinking, I do feel the figures are just an indication of how much the two sides valued this alliance. For both the Mughals and the Ameris, this alliance was a consolidation and a reaffirmation of the close ties they enjoyed since Akbar's marriage with HK.

But what puzzles me is that Akbar never married any of his daughters into the Ameri clan. Perhaps the Rajputs were fine with giving away their daughters to the Mughals but could not accept Mughal princesses?

Thanks so much, Abhay, for bringing to light such beautiful and interesting details. 👏

Radhika,Also, another case ; recently, in the Chittor Post only we say that one Rao Sahib was fighting from side of Rajputs and he was incharge of one of the offshoots of Rathores apart from the renowned Rao Jaimal Rathore of Mertha offshoot of Rathores. The full name of Rao Sahib was Rao Sahib Khan. A close confident of Sisodia Rana Udai Singh, he died in the Saka at 3rd Siege of Chittor.

^ These were some points i remember...Though, i would like to add that "Khan" does not necessarily mean a Muslim. Khan was a military designation also. But, i don't think Rajputs will use Khan as their designation, hence i feel this has more to do with their Muslim mothers, as has been opined by some historians of Rajasthan.


Thanks for raising this point about the marriages. I have posted already about this on blog and would post here also again.

There are differences of opinions when it comes to marriages. While we know after reading Akbarnama that, according to Abu'l Fazl, Akbar is always right in what he does. :-P

So, he writes that the Raja of Hind gave the daughter to him in marriage and His Majesty "graciously accepted" the "divine proposal".. The thing is that, we should look for more sources from both sides and then reach a conclusion.

Their are certain {in fact many} authorities which opine differently. I have already posted the paper of S. Chandra, Former President of Indian History Congress, 1971 ; who has quoted Sheikh Fakr-ud-din who lived in Shah Jahan's reign who wrote in 17th Century that Akbar contracted this marriage with Princess of Amer, and asked BharMal for the hand of Ameri princess in lieu of safeguarding the life of his 2 sons and nephews who were in custody of Sharif-ud-din..

The scan of the paper is present here.
See point number 6. Click here : LINK to Read

He told that the policy of matrimonial alliance was suggested to Humayun when he was in the court of Shah of Iran. He told Humayun it was important to win the Afghans and Rajputs of Hindustan to his side.

{ Though, we know that the major Afghan groups supported Maharana Pratap and remained loyal to him till their death and fought against Mughals - Ismail Khan died in 3rd Siege of Chittor and later Hakim Khan Sur fought in Haldighati ; both are well known friends of Maharana. Afghans were also loyal to Hemu in the Second Battle of Panipat against Mughals. }


This was a factual info, which can be read at the above link. ^^^ @Point number 6 in the above link.

Akbar knew Bharmal since 1557 .. I have more sources about the same, though, i guess the above research paper, will work fine.


Coming to Rajputana FolkLore:

There is a Rajasthani folklore famous since long time, that Akbar had seen her at a wedding or some ceremony. etc. etc. and then married her.

What that ceremony was i don't know.

But, Ekta Kapoor has worked on this same^^^ folklore and she has , in this show, portrayed that " ceremony " as " Gangaur " festival, where Akbar saw her.

When the movie Jodha Akbar came in 2008, a LONG article appeared in The Hindu that time, which has also mentioned this same folklore. Will search that article, and post the link / scan here ...


Another similar Opinion:

A historian has mentioned that , Akbar saw the Rajput princess at the wedding party. In fact, that was a wedding party of Adham Khan's elder brother.

{Yes, you got it right, Adham Khan was younger son of Maham Anga. He had one brother also, and the wives of these brothers were also REAL sisters. BTW, I don't know why Mughal accounts are almost silent about the elder son of Maham Anga. His name was Baki Muhammed Kokaltash. He lived well upto ~1584 but to my surprise he is almost absent from Mughal accounts..He also fought battles for Akbar, though he is almost no where to be found.! }

Coming back ; In that wedding of this elder son, in the ladies ONLY festivities, a young Akbar was also invited. Akbar was young that time and was in his teens. It was there that he saw.

I could get this via someone. Still trying to get more confirmation.. For me this is interesting, as i like to know what really happened. :-P





This event was also mentioned by KDR (inactive on IF now) in one of my old threads, and she knows better about this. This marriage has been mentioned ONLY in Tarikh-i-Badouni as far as i know. I am not sure if Abu'l Fazl has mentioned this in Akbarnama or not.

There are many LESSER known incidents, though may be true at the same time. History & historians choose themselves, what to popularize and what not to popularize ; and we can connect the dots provided we get hands on these sources , and of course time and energy to dig and search.

I simply posted what i remember at the moment. Looks like i wrote more than required. So stopping here.! :)

Abhay I also read this incident but the place I read this that author was confused whether it meant Salim and Jodhbai or Akbar and Hira Kunwari aka Jodha Bai but reading here it is clear as Akbar was an Emperor at a very early age and Salim become one at a later age.

Originally posted by: PutijaChalhov

Abhay I also read this incident but the place I read this that author was confused whether it meant Salim and Jodhbai or Akbar and Hira Kunwari aka Jodha Bai but reading here it is clear as Akbar was an Emperor at a very early age and Salim become one at a later age.

Putija,
That was the article in The Hindu. Actually when the movie came, that time confusion was about the "name" . All used to call her Jodha Bai, that time rarely anyone called her Hira Kunwari. :)