24 years apart- the dynamics and the statics

Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#1
Though I have made a seperate post on this topic, it is actually a continuation of the discussion that has been going on across threads.
Since the discussion has spanned multiple threads and multiple days,

with different ideas and so many interesting thoughts sprinkled around these posts,

I thought bringing it under a single separate thread,


So, here is my thought on the dynamics and statics of the equation between Dadi, Rudra and Shiva - who have met after 24 years of extraordinary experiences!

The statics:

Rudra:

Who is he?

The sarvshreshtha Garuda - the man who is denying his own destiny - also the man who seems to have done a sudden flip of his intent - from swearing revenge to this peace loving ahimsa vadi balak - and this I love her not, I love her...

His 24 years :

Rudra in his 24 years has seen far far more than many do in their entire lifetime

For a 4 year old, to witness an explosion is frightening and traumatizing even for an adult,

obviously left a very very indelible mark on his mind.

Maimui and Udiya baba became his new parents and yet tragedy stuck again

and he lost his father again, in a death that was horrible

- for a 16 year old to see the charred and mutilated body of his father is sure to make a permanent scar on his mind.

12 years, another Kumbh nears and another gruesome tragedy strikes,

and his mother lies there lynched, blood oozing out, breathing her last,

and he held her, held on to her, but ...

She gave him a name - of the man who had wrecked the last two horrors on him

And Rudra turned all his pain and trauma and anger into taking revenge !

But fate played its hand once again, and Rudra met his family - his own flesh and blood family - and this time he was home for real

As he found familial bonds again, he felt soothed, and this changed him again, for he didn't want to go through the pain of loss again,

And revenge would again take him through tragedy, again horrible voilent deaths and again put him and his dadi through the pain of losing his loved ones.

So, Rudra made peace with his past, so that he and his family could live in peace in the future...


Dadi

Who is she

A proud strong lady, quite the maharani of her world, who spent her life doing seva,

not as a sevak but as the gracious First Lady of the Brahma Nishtha Panth

Her life is good, but for her stubborn son, who is so obsessed with his questioning of divine blessings

and hobnobbing with foreigners, that her whole world is threatened.

The old order would continue, her family of husband, son, daughter in law, grand son was perfect,

the panth was flourishing and respected, and she had a purpose in life,

if only her son would not be so obstinate and have some more respect for God's will.


Her 24 years :


Her worst fears came true, her son's heretic views incurred the wrath of the God,

The shree santh panth would have left them alone, had her son not meddled in affairs

He had no business meddling in

She lost her home, her panth, and all of her perfect family in a short span of life

and her own son was to be blamed for it

Unable to face the loss of all she ever had and valued, she went into a yoganidra

A deep sleep of 24 years, that passed by like a long long night from which she was awakened

By her long lost little grandson, and re-kindled her hopes of restoring her old world!

She soon met her son too, and life was almost back to where it was 24 years ago...


Shiva :

Who is he?

A genius, a man of incredible intellect and unequalled thirst for knowledge

And man who will not let things be, for true knowledge is the only religion he knows

And it's pursuit his only passion

An researcher, a discoverer and an inventor, in his world people live on the fringe

while all his energy is focused on the startling discovery he has made

- the significance of the Garuda chinha...

And the duty that has befallen on him - to save the world


His 24 years :

Every day a near death experience

Physical torture, captivity, abuse, insults and

the secret that he must guard even more than his life

Every day has been an agony and yet he did not allow himself to break

And survived everyday, because he knew that he had to be in Allahabad at the Mahakumbh

And he thought a lot about his son - Rudra !



The dynamics :

Dadi - Rudra

Her little baby is now a big boy, who is loving and caring

What more, he listens to her, and understands her and is supporting her to rebuild her life

For Rudra dadi has filled to an extent the emptiness that Maimui left, she has also shown him a way

To live a life that will be calm and safe, yet meaningful

Revenge destroys, Dadi's path is of rebuilding and that's an option that seems welcome after all the horrors he has faced !!!


Rudra - Shiva

Rudras last memory was sitting on his fathers shoulders, all agog at his first Kumbh mela, and this memory stayed with him, and he blamed himself for bringing this upon his father

For 24 years Rudra thought of his father with guilt, and also grew to hate the Garuda mark, beleiving it to be responsible for his ill fated life.

Now his father has explained to him the true meaning of the chinha, and the great power that has been bestowed upon him, and his true duty.

But, to do as his dad says is to once again walk down the path of death and destruction, and he is reluctant to do that

Rudra loves his father, but he does not want to go through a repeat of the last 24 years again, it is too painful ... Surly nothing can be worth that pain...


For Shiva he has been fixated on finding his son, 24 years in captivity he could survive because Rudra was out there somewhere and they were going to meet again, in MAHAKUMBH, if not sooner

He only had to last till then

All these years he never thought of his father, mother, wife, he never wept for his loss

He just waited with patience and thought of Rudra

For Rudra was the sarvashreshtha Garuda and he and his son were the chosen ones

When the battle for amrit took place, Rudra would lead them to victory and even in this janam

Save the amrit

And he shiva was the father of Rudra and had unlocked the key to this secret of ages !!!


Shiva Dadi

She went into a deep sleep last night angry with her son for wrecking havoc and bringing the total destruction of her world

Today she has woken up, to find that her grandson has survived but carries many a scar,

The same son, however still stands before her, unchanged, still unbending, uncontrite,

For her 24 years were not lived with pain and suffereing, she did not spend every day wondering how she was going to go through with it, she slept with anger and pain, and woke up with the same anger
Unresolved.

Shiva, on the other hand has suffered too much every moment for the last 24 years, to throw it all away to appease his mother

Some things are so much bigger than us that individual suffering is insignificant. Gyan is supreme and the duty of a Garuda is to protect the amrit - it has bee for many many births and that is the only fact that is significant.

We need people like Dadi to protect the moral fibre of a society and a family

But we also need people like Shiva to make sure that there is a society to protect

What lies ahead :

Today all 3 of them are living in their own towers, they must come together if the Mahakumbh is to be won, and we will see them together, I think

Food for thought:

Is Rudra by thinking only of his own pain, taking a cowardly approach, that doesn't befit a Garuda?

Is Dadi by being consumed by her loss, being too harsh to her only son, after all, of the three, he has suffered the worst fate in the last 24 years

shiva never thought of his parents or his wife, only of his son rudra

Is it because he loves his son the most, or becasue Rudra is the leader of all Garuda

Is his joy at meeting Rudra the joy of a father meeting a son, or the pride of a father for siring the sarvashreshtha Garuda

Is Rudra the apple of his eye or a man who is mission critical...
Edited by Arshics - 10 years ago

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#2
Arshi,

A very interesting theme, for the crucial triangle in Mahakumbh is going to be that of Daadi-Rudra-Shivanand.

I have got quite exhausted arguing about these matters, mostly with Shruti, so I shall spare you a long dissertation! All the more readily as your summing up is as fair and balanced as one can be, and you do not push any one line.

What I liked the best in this piece:

Some things are so much bigger than us that individual suffering is insignificant. Gyan is supreme and the duty of a Garuda is to protect the amrit - it has bee for many many births and that is the only fact that is significant.

We need people like Dadi to protect the moral fibre of a society and a family

But we also need people like Shiva to make sure that there is a society to protect

I have tried to respond to your 3 questions at the end, in blue.

Shyamala



Originally posted by: Arshics

...

Some things are so much bigger than us that individual suffering is insignificant. Gyan is supreme and the duty of a Garuda is to protect the amrit - it has bee for many many births and that is the only fact that is significant.

We need people like Dadi to protect the moral fibre of a society and a family

But we also need people like Shiva to make sure that there is a society to protect

What lies ahead :

Today all 3 of them are living in their own towers, they must come together if the Mahakumbh is to be won, and we will see them together, I think

Food for thought:

Is Rudra by thinking only of his own pain, taking a cowardly approach, that doesn't befit a Garuda? Yes, yes, yes. Not so much cowardly, for that would mean a deliberate running away from danger, but foolishly optimistic.

I think way too much is being made of Rudra's losses. His is not the only family in the world to have lost its members, such tragedies happen every day, thru natural and unnatural causes. And then, as Aparna pointed out elsewhere, he has got many of them back.

The fact is that he is right now full of self pity, and of course his daadi is there to make things worse. Maimuyi would have jump started him and got him to actually do something instead of hanging around aimlessly bemoaning his lot in life.

I at least am not interested in mollycoddling this 28 year old, and weeping over him saying Poor, poor boy! There have been young people who were totally abandoned and forced into horrible lives at a very tender age, and yet they rose above those circumstances and did very well. Rudra has had it much easier, for the minute one support disappears, another arrives.

If he is indeed a shresthatam garuda, he has to do better than mope around and cling to his daadi's pallu. Instead, he should use what brains he has to think thru all that he has learnt so far from is baba and his daadi. He has to assess whether the status quo ante that he and his daadi crave can at all be maintained by pretending that the dangers his father is flagging do not exist.

So far he has shown no signs of doing any such thing.
He has not made any move to discuss anything with his father, nor does he seem to care a hoot about what happened to him in all these 24 years. He seems to have zero interest in the apocalyptic picture his father is painting, nor does he seem to understand that it such a scenario did materialise, there would be nothing left of his daadi's precious seva left either. If folks like Rudra were to be recruited into the army, heaven help the country! He would sit there worrying about his precious loved ones till the enemy came right in and killed them all anyway.

That is why I would have liked the 'Veshes to have attacked the Brahma Nisht Panth once again, and we could have seen how daadi's amar seva was to be continued if evil was allowed to flourish unchecked.

I am very fond of Gautam, but I am getting a bit tired of Rudra's blank face and weepy eyes. I hope he picks himself up and actually does something, for this not the kind of world saviour I signed on for. Give me Shivanand any day!


Is Dadi by being consumed by her loss, being too harsh to her only son, after all, of the three, he has suffered the worst fate in the last 24 years

Yes again. It is not just that she is cold and unfeeling with him, or that she cuts Shivanand off in mid sentence and does not allow him to explain what his goal is. It is more that she seems to presume that he wants the amrit in order to achieve immortality. How can she believe that of her son if she at all knows him? And she does not even bother to ask him about how he fared all these 24 years. By all that we have been shown, she seems to have been, and to be a self-righteous Victorian martinet.

Her general attitude is "My way or the highway!", and the worst is that she seems to be deliberately trying to drive a wedge between father and son. Whence her overt sympathy and empathy for Rudra's emotional entanglements, her accusing Shiva, in front of Rudra and earlier to him at the hospital, of having led to this catastrophe, her snubbing him publicly and inviting Rudra, over Shivanand's head, to blow the conch, which must have been very hurtful for her son. All this is simply unacceptable.

I love Surekha Sikri's magisterial take on Daadi, but the character is far from flawless.


shiva never thought of his parents or his wife, only of his son rudra
Is it because he loves his son the most, or becasue Rudra is the leader of all Garuda

Is his joy at meeting Rudra the joy of a father meeting a son, or the pride of a father for siring the sarvashreshtha Garuda

Is Rudra the apple of his eye or a man who is mission critical...

It is both, witness the tenderness with which Shiva looks at the prizewinning photo of Rudra's and then reminisces about that event with such joy and pride. He is no aloof, dictatorial Victorian father, is Shivanand, he is a 21st century dad even though he was torn away from active parenting in 1989 itself.

But of course Shivanand is a general in the war against evil to protect the amrit, and for a general, it is winning the war that comes first. So for him, Rudra is to be the true destroyer of evil in the titanic battle that lies ahead, and it is this that he values the most about Rudra. It is but natural.

Edited by sashashyam - 10 years ago
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#3
@ Shyamala,
I have read all the arguments and counter arguments across the various posts but since I was on the move, I couldn't really get to pen down my thoughts

In fact this thread is nothing really new, it's just a summation of all that you all have been discussing, just brought together!

The beauty of a good story is that it creates a room for debate and of multiple interpretations and perspectives.

So on all the main characters - we all will have to agree to disagree!

Not just with each other, but with the writers too maybe and even with ourselves as our own perspective will also keep shifting as the story evolves.

And that's where the excitement lies - in this debate so, justify on!

As for the 3 questions - they will also keep changing !
pasumarthisa thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#4

Rudra is still burning with fire of revenge. Its the others around him who are asking him to give up and move on. Just recently he beat Animesh to death. Like 2 days back.

Shiva-- he never thought of anyone except his son when he was captive. That is a question mark. I started viewing MK from Dec 31 so I don't know much on what happened before. But there is no word called revenge in his dictionary. All he cares about is how to save Amrit and thinks of it as a responsibility. He is calm and measured in his words.

Dadi--sakth aurat hai. Unkii sui wahin par atkii hai. She is ready to ignore Sri santh panth's atrocities but not ready to forgive her son or atleast hear him out. Difficult lady. Dadi Amma dadi Amma maan jaao.

Rudra is trying to cool the situation between dadi n baba and so he took dadi's side. Otherwise, almost killing Animesh the day before and saying he believes in putting marham patti rather than take revenge is being two-faced. He knows his dad has patience.



Edited by pasumarthisa - 10 years ago
happychappy thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#5
Totally agree with Santhi's take on Rudr's strategy - he is still learning how to deal with his Baba & Dadi and (correctly) deduced which side he should appear to take for the moment. Am sure that Siva will explain and Rudr will understand but there's still a few episodes to go before we get there, I'm guessing!
Rudr is learning the hard way that things are not always like they appear to be... MM must be smiling..
😊
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: happychappy

Totally agree with Santhi's take on Rudr's strategy - he is still learning how to deal with his Baba & Dadi and (correctly) deduced which side he should appear to take for the moment. Am sure that Siva will explain and Rudr will understand but there's still a few episodes to go before we get there, I'm guessing!

Rudr is learning the hard way that things are not always like they appear to be... MM must be smiling..
😊



Santhi, Happy,

I guess he is a little like Arjuna, of course the parallel is not 100%, because he is not fighting against his family, he is fighting a clearly defined enemy, but only as much as the moh of his loved ones is holding him back.

I am sure Shiva will play Krishna and convince him of putting dharma above all else and Rudra will be the able general, its a journey from being a little boy lost to a courageous leader, and Rudra is entitled to his doubts and fears.

For courage is not about not being afraid, it about dealing with those fears and that is a process that Rudra is going through




happychappy thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: pasumarthisa



Shiva-- he never thought of anyone except his son when he was captive. That is a question mark. I started viewing MK from Dec 31 so I don't know much on what happened before. But there is no word called revenge in his dictionary. All he cares about is how to save Amrit and thinks of it as a responsibility. He is calm and measured in his words...


@Bold I think he's definitely focussed on the amrit because he realises the gravity of the situation. At that first meeting with Dadi AtkiSui, Siva said "SreeSantPanth se pratishodh lena hamari bhavna hai uddesh nahin... " I'm not what that means exactly Arshi please throw some light on what he means by bhavna here???



Astha & Viswas have bn a recurring theme in this show - first appeared in that "Jal madhye kumbha. kumbhe amrit vartate" song - I cannot now find it anywhere???😕
Then Siva in that library scene mentions that if you have both A & V then you can achieve anything.
And right now it's Dadi batting for A, Siva for V??? Guess you need Rudr to bring the two together...😊

To me Astha (Faith? No Questions Asked?) and Viswas (Belief - based on facts/knowledge??) seem quite similar - what is the distinction they're making here?
Edited by happychappy - 10 years ago
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: happychappy


@Bold I think he's definitely focussed on the amrit because he realises the gravity of the situation. At that first meeting with Dadi AtkiSui, Siva said "SreeSantPanth se pratishodh lena hamari bhavna hai uddesh nahin... " I'm not what that means exactly Arshi please throw some light on what he means by bhavna here???



Astha & Viswas have bn a recurring theme in this show - first appeared in that "Jal madhye kumbha. kumbhe amrit partite" song - I cannot now find it anywhere???😕
Then Siva in that library scene mentions that if you have both A & V then you can achieve anything.
And right now it's Dadi batting for A, Siva for V??? Guess you need Rudr to bring the two together...😊

To me Astha (Faith? No Questions Asked?) and Viswas (Belief - based on facts/knowledge??) seem quite similar - what is the distinction they're making here?



Happy,

the line "SreeSantPanth se pratishodh lena hamari bhavna hai uddesh nahin... "

is such a powerful line - a stellar dialogue and a wonderful thought

The quest for revenge is our sentiment not our objective ( actually udeshya means purpose ) -

He wants Rudra to get past his anger and look at his prarabdha - the purpose for which he was born.

He is asking Rudra to let his his actions be guided not by his heart but by his head essentially

Shiva is a man who has mastered all emotions ( from the look of it, he was probably born that way) and is able to focus logically on the bigger objective)

what wonderful thoughts and words Utkarsh is giving us...

As for aastha and Vishwas - you are spot on -- aashtha means faith - devotion

and Vishwas means belief - again the difference between head and heart

Both are needed to achieve greatness!!


happychappy thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: Arshics



Happy,

the line "SreeSantPanth se pratishodh lena hamari bhavna hai uddesh nahin... "

is such a powerful line - a stellar dialogue and a wonderful thought

The quest for revenge is our sentiment not our objective ( actually udeshya means purpose ) -

He wants Rudra to get past his anger and look at his prarabdha - the purpose for which he was born.

He is asking Rudra to let his his actions be guided not by his heart but by his head essentially

Shiva is a man who has mastered all emotions ( from the look of it, he was probably born that way) and is able to focus logically on the bigger objective)

what wonderful thoughts and words Utkarsh is giving us...

As for aastha and Vishwas - you are spot on -- aashtha means faith - devotion

and Vishwas means belief - again the difference between head and heart

Both are needed to achieve greatness!!



Thanks Arshi :) Is Viswaas here closer to Confidence/self-confidence? I tend to get confused by the different nuances in Hindi vs Mal...😳
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#10
ya it means confidence too, after all self confidence is called atma vishwas in hindi

so maybe it could be translated to faith and confidence.

The finer nuances of the language are lost in translation..
Edited by Arshics - 10 years ago

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