let's discuss the biggest epic ever: MAHABHARAT

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Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

We all know currently, a new version of Mahabharat is on air in Star PLus. It has quite a few popular actors in cast as well. and with hardwork, dedication, all the actors have made a mark as the respective characters they are playing.

The onslaught of the show has also lead to discussion on the chat thread of this forum, So after discussing with some members, here is the topic to dissect MB.

how relevant it is even now, how are the events interpreted, is any character even Good.

was VH okay?

Was karan a tragic hero or a failed genius who could not rise above his own prejudice against himself

is Yudi really a dharamraj?

Who is Krishna

who wrote MB, that is was it written only by VedVyas a person or a collective school of people??

and once again,

is it true, whatever is not in MB, is not in Bharat or the world?

let the ball start rolling...

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ETA: a previous discussion on MB, started sometime in 2010

Old Mahabharat discussion on DM

Edited by LeadNitrate - 11 years ago

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Frequent Posters

-Aarya-

@-Aarya-

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

I find Karna to be the most controversial character in the Mahabharata. He evokes a lot of sentiments; admiration, hate, sympathy, etc. If you value Karna from the side of Dharma (good/bad), he will be considered bad. But he has also done some great heroic things (generosity being one), so there is definitely urge to paint him grey, as someone who was the victim of circumstances, etc. He has symbolized Dharma in so many ways - he remains a true son to his foster parents, a loyal friend to Duryodhana - he stepped back from drawing the final blow to Abhimanyu , etc

It really makes me think if Mahabharat did any justice to Karna? Did Mahabharat really fount on the grounds of Dharma...

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charminggenie

@charminggenie

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Personally I understand the goodness i.e. Karna but the recent translations overtly romanticize him as a flawed warrior who never got his due unlike others in Mahabharata , which I disagree to a greater degree.

Karna was born to an unwed Kunti, the social circumstances around her would not have allowed a healthy upbringing of Karna. I feel ,he was spared a dark future by this abandonment. He might never truly been a Pandava , would have known as unwanted Kunti's son, forever in the shadows of Pandu's sons. What would have been his role in this saga then?

Kunti was sure of his security considering the invisible armour Sun God had provided. I am not sure if I can agree with her choices but I certainly can understand her predicament.

Ah the caste issue of Karna, it's interesting personally because whatever I understood , he was explained by many people including Krishna at many times that it is his Karma/skills which determine a person's caste and worth. Karna internalized casteism so much that he forget to see the great warrior that he was. He had Krishna , another victim of caste issues , before him , yet he couldn't make peace with it.

Was being Suta that bad for him ? I sense he got more opportunity to explore his fortunes himself than be dictated by others .

But my biggest problem with him is his unflinching loyalty to Duryodhan . He was beyond loyal to this "loyalty" , so much so that it blinded him from right and wrong. He refused to listen to the voice of reason within him and facilitated Duryodhan towards the dark side. It is this blinding loyalty that was his biggest flaw. It is not a good trait to have, you cannot support a criminal or a wrong-doer for personal obligations or bonds of affections. Atleast that is the lesson I take away from his life.

Hence, for me personally, he would always remain a failed genius, same like Dronacharya and Bhism.

Edited by charminggenie - 11 years ago

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246851

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

Copy Pasting from elsewhere

Originally posted by: LeadNitrate

Entire MB is the physical interpretation of limitation of personal dharma and not seeing the big picture. And the dharma , which in name of personal dharma, only follows the rule book, how good r worthy it is as dharma.
Krishna breaks the moral code of so called petty dharma over and over again. How far is breaking that dharma allowed and beyond which greater good will be a hogwash only?

I guess petty or not, personal or not, important is love and compassion. Your dharma should not obstruct your love, compassion and humility. When it does, it is time to think about it.

Not just karna or Yudi, this struggle is fought by almost every single member in MB, from Bheesma to Duri .

As for the term, NO idea, dice game or not, I would not call him any such name. The struggles and conflicts and the subsequent wins of Yudi are much more complex and difficult than anyone in MB. Perhaps Krishna is the only one who understands and respects him throughout.

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

@LN - Long time ago we had an MB discussion thread.(Or maybe it was myth) A lot of the old members participated. Maybe, you can dig it up and post a link to that one at your convenience.

Karna - To me Karna is a classic tragic hero. He reminds me of tragic heroes of Greek mythos or even Shakespeare - grey, flawed and conflicted. In many ways he is noble in his selfless giving, in his refusal to defect sides, in his understanding of dharma. In other ways he comes as selfish and flawed. His blind devotion to Duryodhana is born out of selfish pride than genuine friendship. As a friend he never corrects Duryodhana from his wayward ways. Also a maharathi like him was part of the murder of Abhimanyu.

Dharmaraj - I have a problem giving titles like Maryada purshottam and Dharmaraj to characters. Somehow I find them too flawed to attain such high standards. In fact how can we be sure what true dharma is to bestow that title on anyone. I think Yudhishthira is just one man who tried to follow dharma, but failed many times, but he will be renown because he tried the hardest even when it cost him.

Krishna - Krishna is a catalyst. I think Vishnu avatars are all catalysts of events. They push the right buttons to make things unfold. On one hand Krishna is the friend, philosopher and guide of the Pandavas. But at the same time he subtly plays them to the Battlefield of Kurukshetra. One thing about Krishna that bothers me is that the ends justify the means. Sometimes he urges the Pandavas to resort to questionable tactics. Krishna represents the philosophical question of utilitarianism - what is the greater good? And how many lesser evils can justify the greater good?

Who wrote it - If we go by the legend Vyasa narrated it to Ganesha. But in all practicality I think it is a result of history became legend, legend became myth and over time and years it experienced many embellishments, changes, updates as humanity passed the tale from one generation to the next. There are many versions of some tales and sub tales in the MB.

MB is just one of the many epics of the world The Iliad and Oddyseus, Gilgamesh, Genesis and Exodus. Just as Krishna presents the delightful puzzle "I am in the world, the world is in me". Mahabharata is in part of the world and the world is part of Mahabharata.

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charminggenie

@charminggenie

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: -Aarya-

Did Mahabharat really fount on the grounds of Dharma...

I really like this question , I think I might refer whatever little I remember of Krishna on this matter , he said considering the basic motive used by Kurvas for this war was based on adharma , and was itself is - adharma , they would also have to resort to adharma -if need be , but their intentions are for establishing dharma/justice and for seeking greater good. I think more than warfare tactics , we look at the intent or purpose to define the right or wrong.

War ceases to be about dharma , it is a Karma, hence only the intent or purpose would be judged.

Edited by charminggenie - 11 years ago

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hindu4lyf

@hindu4lyf

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Thanks for opening this topic Tani! Interesting to read a wide array of views..

Lots of questions - let me attempt to make a start with the first few in regards to the relevance to the modern world. Ah, where do I start? Just a few from the top of my head..

1) Krishna's peace proposal - Krishna leaves for Hastinapur fully aware that the war would go ahead as planned, yet he does everything in his power to negotiate a deal where there is a chance for peace. Surely the principles of saam, daam, dand and bhed are still applicable in the modern world in many situations.

2) Beware of half knowledge - Abhimanyu knew how to enter the chakravyuh, but not how to come out of it. Drona also loses focus in the war as he only hears half the truth. How quick are we to jump to conclusions without knowing the full story and how many times do we suffer because of it at a later stage?

3) Wait for the right time - Kunti was so curious regarding her boon that she experimented when the time was not right where a child was granted to her but before she was married and against all social norms. This resulted in Karna being discriminated throughout his life, where he was always deprived of his legacy.

4) Be careful what you wish for/you cannot have everything in life - Draupadi insists on a long list of qualities to be in her husband after her ghor tapasya, and ends up getting what she wanted, but in all 5 husbands. Even today, greed and desire in excess benefits no-one and you cannot always get all that you want even if you work very hard for some things.

Then there's the more obvious lessons that still apply today e.g. effects of gambling/don't risk what you can't afford to lose, think before you speak (Kunti's order to Arjun after the swayamvar, before analysing the implications of her words), choose your company wisely etc.

The beauty of MB and the relevance of the epic after all these years lies in the way there is more to the story than good vs evil - the reality is subtler. Even the good had to use trickery and some form of deceit to win, while even the evil has good within. The moral haziness is something most of us can relate to in our daily experiences in life.

@Karna - Just referring back to the point I was trying to make about the layers of his character in the Star version - you and me may not sympathise with Karna but yet we manage to empathise with his plight. Ultimately, he held his personal dharma and loyalty towards Duryodhana above the dharma that contributes to the betterment of society. Bhishma and Drona also on some level fall in to this category. Had Bhishma put aside his perceived selflessness and self-righteousness, hence breaking his vow of celibacy, the war may have been avoided. So coming back to Karna, I don't see him so much as a tragic hero, but one that many can probably relate to on some level - complex, but as real as it gets.

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246851

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

Okay. Not just these questions feel free to add, write something else, dissect. Basically anything with MB-

Rth, will search it out.

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Believe

@-Believe-

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Is Draupadi fall in love with Karna...Before,Draupadi herself prevented Karna from participating in the Swyamvar, calling him a Suta Putra...Many years later, she learned from Krishna that Karna is not a suta putra but the eldest son of Kunti. To this, Draupadi regrets saying,

"If I had married him, I would not have been gambled away, publicly humiliated and called a wh**e. For he has all the qualities possessed by my 5 husbands."

I think in Mahabharata has two characters who have received the most humiliation,one is Draupadi and the other is Karna.,I like karna because I feel,Draupadi has longed for a husband who will have wisdom and moral values, will be strong and well built, a good archer, handsome and intelligent...Karna is the only character in Mahabharata who has all these qualities.😊