New Ideas, Beautiful Relationships - Page 2

Originally posted by: S.kitty

@samanalyse: it's quite refreshing to see the issue in a different perspective. I do agree with the fact that meher's mom has a different way to approach things and she is quite strong in her own way. But it's just that i don't connect with the way she is dealing with the issue. Maybe i would if it was just between her and her husband. I connect more with the way meher and bua is dealing with him. Apart from how they tried to save him in the police station. It would have been fine if they just back answered kuber because he thought the whole family was money minded. But instead they choosed to save their excuse of a father/brother. In that particular scene it was just their ego and pride speaking. When it comes to meher's mother it's not just about standing up against her husband, she does have the upper hand in the whole issue to make her husband stay away from them. The cards are in her hands she just needs to use them. That man is living on their money and having a second wife without divorcing the first one. I have no idea about indian law but if I'm not wrong it's illegal?😊

@malikakas: My pleasure, especially when I get to discuss something that intrigues me in this in-depth way! I just hope you don't mind the discussion carrying over days since I am not always able respond immediately. I actually like the way the discussion can unfold with new information each day!

The way I see it, we are not in disagreement in principle, only in execution. I completely agree with you about ideology here. What Suman is doing does go against textbook feminism for sure, and is a more practical route. What I disagree with is that this makes her a weaker character. It is easy to expect radical behaviour out of people but I think we do tend to undermine just how much that takes away from our daily lives, how much of a decision that is. It's not for no reason that many freedom fighters chose not to have families, or, chose to distance themselves from their families when they dedicated themselves to fighting for the nation. It is very difficult, I would even say impossible, for radical politics and actions and a peaceful home-life to co-exist and it's not a foregone conclusion that one is wrong and the other right - it's a choice for each individual based on their context and personal beliefs.

Suman put her children, and the stability and happiness of her family first, not ideology. I don't know if that was a conscious choice she made or one borne out of the way she was raised but she has stood by that choice no matter what and as a result I think she has a much more mature understanding of relationships, though she falls short when measured against feminist principles. Despite the fact that Bua appears not to want to entertain her brother, she, as you said, enables him. That is a very complicated situation in which nothing is quite black and white the way we as audience are seeing it. If Suman were to take a stand and put her husband in jail, would Bua, who can't seem to cut ties and separate his fate from her pride, still support her? Would their relationship be the same? Suman has everyone to think about, including herself and when dealing with such complicated relationships, I don't know that standing rigidly by principle, no matter how noble that principle may be, is necessarily the most sensitive way to act. It depends what you think is more important, what you are willing to risk. Suman is simply not a risk-taker and in a household situation that was so unstable after Shyam left, I don't see that as a bad or weak thing.

To me, feminism and resisting patriarchy is as much about accepting the lifestyle choices of all women as it is about women standing up to men. If Suman chooses to consider Shyam her husband despite all he has done, even if it is not what I would do, then her choice deserves respect, even in the abstract. But in specific, I think it deserves respect even more importantly because despite what she may feel about her husband, she doesn't let her life revolve around his presence or absence. She, with Bua, has absolutely built a life outside of him for herself and for her family, a life which he can only disturb from time to time, nothing more. She and Meher are opposites that way - Meher looks more obviously like she has moved on because she has her career and status, but she really hasn't. All these years later her actions are still motivated by Abeer's perceived abandonment. Suman on the other hand looks like she is stuck in the same place, but deep down has actually moved past her husband and built a life in which he plays no significant part. That is the dynamic I find most interesting.

Suman is teaching Meher how to be a strong woman by example, by moving on with her life and being happy, even after her husband left her. She could have chosen to be bitter, constantly complaining and crying, but she's not. She is cheerful, patient, emotionally mature and extremely generous every single day, even when those around her are falling to pieces. That too is a choice, one that speaks of great strength to me, strength that may not be loud and confrontational but is no less effective to the people who really matter. This kind of strength reflects in Meher when she chooses not to respond to most of Abeer's nonsense - she really is such a perfect mix of her Bua and Mom! Devki's brand of strength teaches her how to work in order to be independent, and Suman's brand teaches her how to nurture relationships and not isolate herself from other people entirely. That is why I think Suman is so much in support of Meher's reconciliation with Abeer. She sees her going more and more down a path of isolation and pride, and that worries her. Abeer was special because he has (or at least had) the power, when he genuinely cares, to lower Meher's defenses and be a true companion to her.

Yeah, I don't blame Meher for choosing not to betray her true feelings to Abeer at this point; she just doesn't trust him and he has given her no reason to. But I guess what I was getting at is that somebody has to make the first step for them to shed their egos and let themselves be happy: I am curious to see who it is!

Originally posted by: Samanalyse

That was really the whole point of this post, to talk about how yesterday's episode was a turnaround for me in terms of seeing Suman's very different perspective. Up until then, I was also much more sympathetic to the way Bua and Meher were handling the situation. The thing I am not able to reconcile in many of the responses, is this idea that Suman being harsh would somehow have a real effect on her husband. From what we have seen of him he is willing to stoop to any low to get what he wants or to make those who refuse him feel like crap. He is a truly sleazy man. When he has no integrity and is willing to do much worse things than you are in a confrontation, isn't it a losing battle to confront him directly?

Hmm..today's episode kinda brought me back to your thread. If i felt meher's father stooped quite low on the police station scene, he was much worser today. I do see your point of view about meher's mother, that she has a different approach which many of us might have difficulty to understand or accept. But she is strong in her own way. She doesn't let her past rule her life because she has made peace with it. This is something meher can learn from her mother.

His conjugal situation is illegal, true, but it would take years and endless funds to make anything come of it in court. Even if she were to employ the law, who's to say he wouldn't use disgusting tactics to prove her wrong? After all, the judicial system is also not above reproach and manipulation. It would be a huge risk for Suman to do something like this, to be honest, and it would be something that would take away time with her kids and family. Again, I am not saying that I think she is beyond reproach, but that her methods have a quiet strength that I had not realized or acknowledged until yesterday. Meher has been using her mother as a negative example, but there may be important things to learn from her as well.

In reality it should be easy for her to prove it but in practicality it's exactly how you have pointed out. It's exhausting mentally and physically and on the top time consuming too. It's sad to see how judicial system work. As i said earlier i don't know how the judicial system works in india apart from what i read on social media. But that something like this could be manipulated is above my understanding. I mean i don't see in which way he could possibly do that. 😊

It doesn't hurt to remember how she brings out the most soft-spoken and respectful side of badtameez Abeer either! 😉

Yup...i just admire their bond 😳

Originally posted by: Samanalyse

@malikakas: My pleasure, especially when I get to discuss something that intrigues me in this in-depth way! I just hope you don't mind the discussion carrying over days since I am not always able respond immediately. I actually like the way the discussion can unfold with new information each day!

No worries... honestly I probably don't have much time for discussion myself. I using this as procrastination so don't mind if I end up trailing off 😳

Anyways, I wholeheartedly agree with every word of what you've said. Ideologically we are on exactly the same page.

I agree with the general philosophy like Abeer's mom told Abeer that just because a girl is quiet doesn't mean its a sign of weakness. With Meher I see that because I know when she doesn't respond to Abeer its not because she's afraid but because she is taking the high road. There is definitely a quiet strength to that. But I can see that strength because I know when Abeer takes it too far she has the capacity to respond.

But with Suman's mom-- it seem she doesn't have a limit. She lets her husband and his new wife walk over her. Yes she is trying to keep the peace and maybe it was more beneficial in the earlier days when they needed the bua's support. But now I would argue keeping quiet is harmful.

To me, feminism and resisting patriarchy is as much about accepting the lifestyle choices of all women as it is about women standing up to men. If Suman chooses to consider Shyam her husband despite all he has done, even if it is not what I would do, then her choice deserves respect, even in the abstract. But in specific, I think it deserves respect even more importantly because despite what she may feel about her husband, she doesn't let her life revolve around his presence or absence. She, with Bua, has absolutely built a life outside of him for herself and for her family, a life which he can only disturb from time to time, nothing more. She and Meher are opposites that way - Meher looks more obviously like she has moved on because she has her career and status, but she really hasn't. All these years later her actions are still motivated by Abeer's perceived abandonment. Suman on the other hand looks like she is stuck in the same place, but deep down has actually moved past her husband and built a life in which he plays no significant part. That is the dynamic I find most interesting.

Feminism is absolutely about supporting a woman's right to a choice. But is Suman really making a choice from strength for the greater good or she just afraid of ruffling feathers?

I think the bolded sentence in your paragraph is the crux of why I think differently than you. Honestly if it was just a matter of him coming around once in a while and annoying them -- I would absolutely respect Suman's reaction-- the way you do. If his actions actually don't have any affect on their lives then yeah who cares. Move on, live life for yourself. But when Shyam starts affecting the relationship with Meher's in laws-- then how they deal with him matters. How could Suman think Abeer and Meher have a chance at reconciliation if Shyam is actively trying to extort Kuber for financial gain? Also is Shyam's presence really beneficial for Tarun's future or self esteem? In this last episode where Suman asks how can I refuse if he asks for tea-- for me that's akin to rewarding bad behaviour. Its like saying I give you permission to play with my children's future with impunity.

The problem with Shyam is that no one has ever made him pay the price for his selfish actions. He has the audacity to go after a rich guy like KM because he knows he has the legal support of his sister and his family won't say a word to him. Its Suman's silence and the Bua's protection that facilitates him. They never took a hard line with him from the beginning so it became harder to do so later. Maybe saying something now won't make a difference but they have a lot to lose by not trying. Think about it, could Meher really get married into a decent family with the way this guy behaves? At the very least they need to show that they have dissociated from him-- that they don't support his behaviours. Giving him tea, lending a shoulder to his second wife and coming to his legal aid isn't really doing that in my mind.

Suman is teaching Meher how to be a strong woman by example, by moving on with her life and being happy, even after her husband left her. She could have chosen to be bitter, constantly complaining and crying, but she's not. She is cheerful, patient, emotionally mature and extremely generous every single day, even when those around her are falling to pieces. That too is a choice, one that speaks of great strength to me, strength that may not be loud and confrontational but is no less effective to the people who really matter. This kind of strength reflects in Meher when she chooses not to respond to most of Abeer's nonsense - she really is such a perfect mix of her Bua and Mom! Devki's brand of strength teaches her how to work in order to be independent, and Suman's brand teaches her how to nurture relationships and not isolate herself from other people entirely. That is why I think Suman is so much in support of Meher's reconciliation with Abeer. She sees her going more and more down a path of isolation and pride, and that worries her. Abeer was special because he has (or at least had) the power, when he genuinely cares, to lower Meher's defenses and be a true companion to her.

I heartily agree with all this! The paradox here is exactly what you've mentioned... Suman has emotionally moved on whereas Meher has not. Meher is trying too hard to prove that she has moved on. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. 😆

But I never really compared the two situations because I felt the fundamental difference is that Meher was genuinely in love with Abeer, and likely, at some point, made herself completely vulnerable to him. What she is struggling with now is how to cover up that vulnerability. But I didn't think Suman ever had that connection with Shyam. I think that's why she wants to reconcile Abeer with Meher, because she appreciated the sincerity of Abeer's love for Meher.

But I agree it takes a lot of strength to not allow something like that to close yourself off completely and this is something she wants Meher to understand. So that way I agree that Suman has a quiet strength, its like she has an intrinsic self confidence that doesn't need external validation. The fact that she is not ruled by pride allows her to be a little more objective compared to Bua and Meher. It allows her to be empathetic to Abeer's point of view.

Yeah, I don't blame Meher for choosing not to betray her true feelings to Abeer at this point; she just doesn't trust him and he has given her no reason to. But I guess what I was getting at is that somebody has to make the first step for them to shed their egos and let themselves be happy: I am curious to see who it is!

Personally, I want it to be Abeer. At this point he has done a lot to deliberately hurt her and make her life difficult-- he needs to take a step towards at least being amicable.