In Arjun's Defense... - Page 4

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#31
Dear Kalapi,

I cannot thank you enough for spotting my major bloomer on the Rosaline issue and setting me right. I have not read Romeo and Juliet since my school days, but that is hardly an adequate excuse! My profound apologies to all the forum members as well versed in the Bard as you are, and I promise that in future I shall check things up in advance.

Janhvi, I had mentioned this same argument earlier in another post. Where were you, and why did you not pull me up then? 😉

This said, perhaps I can still salvage a bit of my basic argument, that young people (and even not so young people) can fall out of love with one person and into love with another without being able to help it.

In this case, Arjun was never in love with Ovi, and he never told her so either. His real fault is that he has no idea or comprehension of the depth of Ovi's reaction to his telling her that he cannot be hers any more. He takes her obsession with him to be a sort of childish crush that he thinks she will get over once she knows the truth; whence his assuring Purvi "mana loonga use' (I will make her see reason).

Well, he is in good company; the Michael Douglas character in Fatal Attraction was equally clueless.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Kalapi thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#32

Sorry, again a double post...I don't understand why I get a double post everytime I edit...

Edited by Kalapi - 13 years ago
Kalapi thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#33
I did flip some pages to pull the facts out since your post contradicted my rustic memory, (although my personal view is that it is unjust to compare THE Master Storytellers with these Hindi serial Cvs, but that as I said is my very POV).
Yes, people are allowed to fall out of love and one could argue that this might have been the case with Arjun, one could also argue that he might have never been 'in love' with Ovi only thought he was, but he did definitely at some point considered Ovi as his best friend and did get engaged to her. So, the onus does fall on him to explain to her at least once, clearly and precisely that what he has said is true regarding Purvi. As a recent Arjun critic, I would then at least say, he has tried his best to put a closure to the relationship that he once shared with Ovi without leaving his past best friend 'hanging' metaphorically...

But, I do not know why, whether it is that friendship that he once shared with Ovi, that he does gets all tongue tied in front of her or it might be his guilty conscious (alas we will never know, because the Cvs lack the masterstroke of having the characters have a subconscious dialogue with themselves, at least not in PR as far as I can remember, so, what we argue tends to be speculative in nature). But what we see is that, this hot-blooded young man in his zeal to prove his love to future MIL et al, ignored or did not have the courtesy to sit down and reason with Ovi, for once in the absence of a big rowdy tamashas

Yes, if Arjun has the right to fall out of love, Ovi did in her own way loved this precious man (and had the right to love him too) and it does takes time to accept and absorb and move on. Of course, one can condemn Ovi to their heart's content, but love and even one-sided ones (most often than not) do not follow a prescribed path'if it did could we have the beautiful novel(s) you yourself referred or the most celebrated love of Meera for Lord Krishna, nor could we see honor killings, inter-caste murder or suicides after a rejection in real life. I do not have much faith in our wonderful Cvs to see what and how Ovi finally reacts when the truth sinks in (without turning her negative) but why speculate on future events that could in the near future further spice up this forum... 😊

QUOTE=sashashyam]Dear Kalapi,

I cannot thank you enough for spotting my major bloomer on the Rosaline issue and setting me right. I have not read Romeo and Juliet since my school days, but that is hardly an adequate excuse! My profound apologies to all the forum members as well versed in the Bard as you are, and I promise that in future I shall check things up in advance.

Janhvi, I had mentioned this same argument earlier in another post. Where were you, and why did you not pull me up then? 😉

This said, perhaps I can still salvage a bit of my basic argument, that young people (and even not so young people) can fall out of love with one person and into love with another without being able to help it.

In this case, Arjun was never in love with Ovi, and he never told her so either. His real fault is that he has no idea or comprehension of the depth of Ovi's reaction to his telling her that he cannot be hers any more. He takes her obsession with him to be a sort of childish crush that he thinks she will get over once she knows the truth; whence his assuring Purvi "mana loonga use' (I will make her see reason).

Well, he is in good company; the Michael Douglas character in Fatal Attraction was equally clueless.
princessjojo thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#34
If young blood acts thus, then Archana is right.-can Purvi be sure he won't fall for yet another girl after her..this might merely be the zeal of infatuation.

^That's just for argument sake.

Arjun absolutely owes Ovi a one-to-one private talk. Whether it yields results or not is but a consequence and not at all a deciding factor in whether the talk should happen.

Unfortunately, I don't see how R&J can be used for comparison or as the standard. It's just a story as is PR.

Were this real..If I were in Ovi's position, I surely wouldn't even bother with Arjun. And if I were in Purvi's shoes, tough chance- not only for his itsy bitsy mistake but also because a clingy best friend- that one does not have the heart to keep decent distance from- is bad news.

Arjun's actions are not a result of the right/ethical/just decision(s)-they are merely a convenience to the story line. That makes a lot of arguments moot points.

It's entertaining to see charged emotions-made me wanna break my hiatus. lol.

All that said, I'm waiting for Monday for some old school romance via Churan.





soapwatcher1 thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#35

Originally posted by: princessjojo

If young blood acts thus, then Archana is right.-can Purvi be sure he won't fall for yet another girl after her..this might merely be the zeal of infatuation.


^That's just for argument sake.

Arjun absolutely owes Ovi a one-to-one private talk. Whether it yields results or not is but a consequence and not at all a deciding factor in whether the talk should happen.

Unfortunately, I don't see how R&J can be used for comparison or as the standard. It's just a story as is PR.

Were this real..If I were in Ovi's position, I surely wouldn't even bother with Arjun. And if I were in Purvi's shoes, tough chance- not only for his itsy bitsy mistake but also because a clingy best friend- that one does not have the heart to keep decent distance from- is bad news.

Arjun's actions are not a result of the right/ethical/just decision(s)-they are merely a convenience to the story line. That makes a lot of arguments moot points.

It's entertaining to see charged emotions-made me wanna break my hiatus. lol.

All that said, I'm waiting for Monday for some old school romance via Churan.







Loved your post, glad you broke your hiatus. As kakapi has written, the goings on in PR spice up the forum though we are all equally aware that the characters are at the mercy of not one writer but probably several (unlike that of a masterpiece where the novelist at least has a clear idea as to where the character is headed). Here, the characters are pulled hither and thither and made to sacrifice consistency in thought and action to adhere to an ever changing story line. Unpredictability in plot and characterization is what gives us fodder to dissect and discuss to our hearts' content.


Sorry, Shyamala, blame the diminishing pile of Mysore pak and the mad rush to gobble some before it disappeared, for my not having said anything about the RJ inference.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#36
Dear Darlyne,

Thanks a million as always!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Darlyne

Dear Shyamala, excellent job on PAP!!!👏

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#37
@red. I would agree with you completely on this point. I have often wondered why the CVs neglect this very useful device, unless of course they have a vested interest in perpetuating and deepening confusion, not just between the characters, but also between them and the audience.

@black. No, I no longer condemn or even criticise Ovi. In fact, I have begun to feel very sorry for her; the helpless desperation on her face after that unexpected encounter with Arjun in the street was heart-wrenching.

Nor do I think, as I have written in my separate PAP post, that her delusionary behaviour is faked to garner sympathy from her family. She is obsessed with Arjun to a degree that Purvi, with her sanskaari feet planted firmly on the ground, could probably never match.

It would, even given normal conditions, take Ovi a long time to get over Arjun. Manav's suggestion that she should go back to Canada is the most sensible under the circumstances, but unfortunately, she shoots it down at once.

The problem is that she is unwilling to believe that Arjun does not love her. That she ever got this delusion is solely thanks to DK's unintentional piece of folly in telephoning her and telling her so. (Incidentally, Arjun still does not know about this bloomer, and that would affect his assessment of Ovi's behaviour).

Now, even Purvi is keen to protect Ovi from the consequences of her obsession; and she seems to worry about Ovi Ma'am almost as much as Archana does.

So there we go, round and round and round on the carrousel, and we cannot, alas, step off!

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: Kalapi

I did flip some pages to pull the facts out since your post contradicted my rustic memory, (although my personal view is that it is unjust to compare THE Master Storytellers with these Hindi serial Cvs, but that as I said is my very POV).

Yes, people are allowed to fall out of love and one could argue that this might have been the case with Arjun, one could also argue that he might have never been 'in love' with Ovi only thought he was, but he did definitely at some point considered Ovi as his best friend and did get engaged to her. So, the onus does fall on him to explain to her at least once, clearly and precisely that what he has said is true regarding Purvi. As a recent Arjun critic, I would then at least say, he has tried his best to put a closure to the relationship that he once shared with Ovi without leaving his past best friend 'hanging' metaphorically...

But, I do not know why, whether it is that friendship that he once shared with Ovi, that he does gets all tongue tied in front of her or it might be his guilty conscious (alas we will never know, because the Cvs lack the masterstroke of having the characters have a subconscious dialogue with themselves, at least not in PR as far as I can remember, so, what we argue tends to be speculative in nature). But what we see is that, this hot-blooded young man in his zeal to prove his love to future MIL et al, ignored or did not have the courtesy to sit down and reason with Ovi, for once in the absence of a big rowdy tamashas

Yes, if Arjun has the right to fall out of love, Ovi did in her own way loved this precious man (and had the right to love him too) and it does takes time to accept and absorb and move on. Of course, one can condemn Ovi to their heart's content, but love and even one-sided ones (most often than not) do not follow a prescribed path'if it did could we have the beautiful novel(s) you yourself referred or the most celebrated love of Meera for Lord Krishna, nor could we see honor killings, inter-caste murder or suicides after a rejection in real life. I do not have much faith in our wonderful Cvs to see what and how Ovi finally reacts when the truth sinks in (without turning her negative) but why speculate on future events that could in the near future further spice up this forum... 😊


QUOTE=sashashyam]Dear Kalapi,

I cannot thank you enough for spotting my major bloomer on the Rosaline issue and setting me right. I have not read Romeo and Juliet since my school days, but that is hardly an adequate excuse! My profound apologies to all the forum members as well versed in the Bard as you are, and I promise that in future I shall check things up in advance.

Janhvi, I had mentioned this same argument earlier in another post. Where were you, and why did you not pull me up then? 😉

This said, perhaps I can still salvage a bit of my basic argument, that young people (and even not so young people) can fall out of love with one person and into love with another without being able to help it.

In this case, Arjun was never in love with Ovi, and he never told her so either. His real fault is that he has no idea or comprehension of the depth of Ovi's reaction to his telling her that he cannot be hers any more. He takes her obsession with him to be a sort of childish crush that he thinks she will get over once she knows the truth; whence his assuring Purvi "mana loonga use' (I will make her see reason).

Well, he is in good company; the Michael Douglas character in Fatal Attraction was equally clueless.
Shyamala B.Cowsik

princessjojo thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#38
Soapwatcher1, did you ever frequent the Kasam Se forums a couple years ago as soapwatcher? Your username looks familiar.
soapwatcher1 thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#39

Originally posted by: princessjojo

Soapwatcher1, did you ever frequent the Kasam Se forums a couple years ago as soapwatcher? Your username looks familiar.



No, never watched kasam se, is it a zee show too? I made the soapwatcher id when I started watching Bhagonwalli, used it once or twice perhaps but it wouldn't work after so made a new profile by adding the "1" to it :)
Your name sounds familiar too, were you on the Bhagonwalli forum?
FireLordPhoenix thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#40

Originally posted by: soapwatcher1



No, never watched kasam se, is it a zee show too? I made the soapwatcher id when I started watching Bhagonwalli, used it once or twice perhaps but it wouldn't work after so made a new profile by adding the "1" to it :)
Your name sounds familiar too, were you on the Bhagonwalli forum?


Sorry to butt into your conversation Jahnvi and princessjojo. Kasam Se was a zee show and that too an Ekta Kapoor show. I never really cared much for it but started watching it when Gurdeep Kohli started playing Bani. I think she's awesome. Loved her in Sindoor, she was my fave character there.

@Jahnvi - You used to watch Bhagonwali? I liked it initially until the show started becoming nonsense. I was thrilled when it ended. I could not take the nonsense of Jhootha Matha Rani when I caught the last few epsiodes. My favorite character was Guddu. He was awesome. I, however could not stand Runjuhn. She eventually became an irritating wench carrying far too much for her ungrateful family, who never seemed to change.

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