~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 65

Originally posted by: NoraSM

How come Lord Vishnu's avatars were in same period?

I remember Parshuram was in Ramayana too

Rama, Krishna and Arjuna too if one believes in Nara and Narayana

Or is Lord Vishnu a description?

I read it somewhere that when Parashuram meets Ram, his Avtaratva is transferred to Ram, Ram wasn't an Avatar since birth.

Not sure how much of it is true

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Its been a while since I read prologmena of BORI. Have to get back to it.. I totally forgot the subhadra haran part.

I dont beleive it was ever a love story. It was a forced abduction and marriage for sure.

Though puranas skirt around it. If you look at it objectively. Bride kidnappings mandated rape/consummation.

A girl is not going to be avoided by other suitors just because she was held or touched by a guy. We did not have dumb people in that era.

But a woman who is no longer a virgin will be.

That was the reason for Shalwa rejecting Amba I believe. He presumed that as is the norm, VV would have immediately consummated with the three princesses.

He refuses not because Bhishma defeated him and took her. But because Shalwa assumed Bhishma defeated him and took her and VV raped her.

That is why after Jayadrath kidnaps Draupadi and tries to take her away, instead of killing her straight away. Once raped situation would change completely for Pandavas atleast as like Rama they may be forced to abandon her inorder to not be called a cuckold

She goes panchal goes.. Pandavas will not be threat anymore.

That is why the suspicion on Sita, that Ravana as was the norm would promptly rape her as soon as he reached a safe space. No one was willing to believe inspite of the agni pariksha or her or rama's claims.

That is why Samba gets to marry Lakshmana, he kidnaps and rapes her

Once raped victim will have no choice but to marry the man who raped her because no one else will and she will be abandoned by her family. If she wanted to live that is.

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@bold -- Not sure but isn't it mentioned that while Karna abducted Kashi n Kalinga princess for Duryodhan, then Dury accompanied him just to abduct the girl(i.e hold her and take her to the carriage) while Karna did rest of the work because Karna couldn't have touched the girl Dury was gonna marry??

Anyhow your other examples are pretty on spot, Arjun Subhadra was definitely not a love marriage, else they could have done a Gandharva Vivah before leaving, but r**e seems way too much. Krishna actually asking a cousin to r**e his sister,? Does this suit his character

Mera ek questions hai ispe why Subhadra dint protested in this abduction ? She would be surrounded by personal guards & soldiers when arjun abducted her , she would definitely knowing who is abducting her ? Thou arjun could had easily defeated her personal guards . No fight is mentioned , I read abduction happened when subhadra went 2 raivatak parvat .

If supposedly any princess if being forcefully abducted by someone she will surely protested coz it will be against her will.

I guess Bhanumati 2 would had protested when she was abducted .

From where these rumours came out their during Subhadra haran chariot reins were in Subhadra's hand ?

I m genuinely asking these questions keeping lovestory angle aside .

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Mera ek questions hai ispe why Subhadra dint protested in this abduction ? She would be surrounded by personal guards & soldiers when arjun abducted her , she would definitely knowing who is abducting her ? Thou arjun could had easily defeated her personal guards . No fight is mentioned , I read abduction happened when subhadra went 2 raivatak parvat .

If supposedly any princess if being forcefully abducted by someone she will surely protested coz it will be against her will.

I guess Bhanumati 2 would had protested when she was abducted .

From where these rumours came out their during Subhadra haran chariot reins were in Subhadra's hand ?

I m genuinely asking these questions keeping lovestory angle aside .

@Bold through the portrayal in BR Chopra Mahabharata, no where else this narrative is present

@Underlined this kind of thinking is exactly the start of victim blaming especially in case of crimes against women (not saying you are doing that but such things have been imbibed into our minds since childhood and it's difficult to come out of it

She probably didn't have her guards surrounding her at that time, unlike Bhanumati she wasn't abducted from her Swayamwar but during some"me time," of hers.

Subhadra haran is north version where arjun was smitten by subhadra later krishna asked arjun 4 it coz he was not sure about Subhadra's choice in swayamber & before abduction arjun took permission from Yudi 2. Subhadra haran is in original version of vyas, where there is nothing mentioned regarding Subhadra's opinion .

In South retelling version I think it's not haran but direct marriage

Krishna sent balram & Yadavs to raivatak parvat 4 puja in his absence along with vasudev he get arjun subhadra married in presence of indra & sachi , when they leave 4 indraprastha , balram sent his soldiers to fight arjun whom arjun defeated , later krishna convince balram 4 arjun subhadra marriage.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@Bold through the portrayal in BR Chopra Mahabharata, no where else this narrative is present

@Underlined this kind of thinking is exactly the start of victim blaming especially in case of crimes against women (not saying you are doing that but such things have been imbibed into our minds since childhood and it's difficult to come out of it

She probably didn't have her guards surrounding her at that time, unlike Bhanumati she wasn't abducted from her Swayamwar but during some"me time," of hers.

In Ramanand Sagar Krishna arjun accepted subhadra as his bride in front of mandir & then abducted her infront of her guards with subhadra driving d chariot, I m not speaking about tv version , I know in tv they try 2 present things in much pleasant ways . In BRC 2 krishna convinced subhadra 4 her abduction she was well aware what was going 2 happen.

But I read Subhadra was not without guards , abduction dint happened in dwarka .

Abduction is vedvyas original version in which there is no opinion big subhadra is mentioned neither her protest .

Bhanumati abduction from swayamber us from tv version only , but I read she 2 is abducted from her swayamber when she rejected duryodhana by walking pass him .

Bhanumati was a princess she will not roam freely , uski security ka kuch 2 preparation hogi , so goes 4 subhadra 2 would not roam here & there without guards.

Kya us time royal women were left alone without guards

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@Bold through the portrayal in BR Chopra Mahabharata, no where else this narrative is present

@Underlined this kind of thinking is exactly the start of victim blaming especially in case of crimes against women (not saying you are doing that but such things have been imbibed into our minds since childhood and it's difficult to come out of it

She probably didn't have her guards surrounding her at that time, unlike Bhanumati she wasn't abducted from her Swayamwar but during some"me time," of hers.

Not I m not blaming subhadra or Bhanumati I should clear this but if something happens without our consent naturally protest against it comeout .

For example when sita was abducted by raavan she very strongly protested it . Even he abducted her when she was totally alone.

I m not comparing d ladies but abduction koi bhi kare galat hi hai.

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Not I m not blaming subhadra or Bhanumati I should clear this but if something happens without our consent naturally protest against it comeout .

For example when sita was abducted by raavan she very strongly protested it . Even he abducted her when she was totally alone.

I m not comparing d ladies but abduction koi bhi kare galat hi hai.

No two people react in an Exactly similar manner when in same situation

In such a scenario, Many would shout and many just go mum in shock

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

In Ramanand Sagar Krishna arjun accepted subhadra as his bride in front of mandir & then abducted her infront of her guards with subhadra driving d chariot, I m not speaking about tv version , I know in tv they try 2 present things in much pleasant ways . In BRC 2 krishna convinced subhadra 4 her abduction she was well aware what was going 2 happen.

But I read Subhadra was not without guards , abduction dint happened in dwarka .

Abduction is vedvyas original version in which there is no opinion big subhadra is mentioned neither her protest .

Bhanumati abduction from swayamber us from tv version only , but I read she 2 is abducted from her swayamber when she rejected duryodhana by walking pass him .

Bhanumati was a princess she will not roam freely , uski security ka kuch 2 preparation hogi , so goes 4 subhadra 2 would not roam here & there without guards.

Kya us time royal women were left alone without guards

You had asked on where did the narrative of Subhadra driving the chariot come from, it was to that I replied, that, that version comes from BRC Mahabharata.

Coming to Subhadra she was there for some me time of hers, definitely the army of bodyguards wouldn't accompany her. There might have been a few who would have been bribed/ordered by Arjun n Krishna to not do anything during this abduction

Bhanumati abduction is from Sreemad Bhagwatam nothing mentioned about her by Vyas. She was abducted from her Swayamwar and people did try to save her, the family, guards etc. even other kings present there but Duryodhan n Karna defeated all to take her away. Oriya Mahabharatha took it step further that even though having abducted her and having full rights on her, Duryodhan didn't force her for marriage (this I think means he didn't r**e her or didn't compel her to consummate the marriage) and waited for her acceptance n approval for the relationship but it could be an exaggeration too.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

You had asked on where did the narrative of Subhadra driving the chariot come from, it was to that I replied, that, that version comes from BRC Mahabharata.

Coming to Subhadra she was there for some me time of hers, definitely the army of bodyguards wouldn't accompany her. There might have been a few who would have been bribed/ordered by Arjun n Krishna to not do anything during this abduction

Bhanumati abduction is from Sreemad Bhagwatam nothing mentioned about her by Vyas. She was abducted from her Swayamwar and people did try to save her, the family, guards etc. even other kings present there but Duryodhan n Karna defeated all to take her away. Oriya Mahabharatha took it step further that even though having abducted her and having full rights on her, Duryodhan didn't force her for marriage (this I think means he didn't r**e her or didn't compel her to consummate the marriage) and waited for her acceptance n approval for the relationship but it could be an exaggeration too.

See I don't think arjun r***d subhadra coz I trust krishna on this , he never had been said a bad brother thou he suggested or planned abduction. R**e is something very big . Krishna really can't be a part of such things . Alli story acc 2 me is truly made up frictional story with no head & tail by someone who is anti krishna & arjun , same goes r**e of Subhadra.

I don't know much about Bhanumati , so I guess r**e was not in this case. As u told preet dury hold a good husband rapport in oriya mb😆

I guess bheesam did made it clear why he & 4 whom he is taking d 3 princess ( I can be wrong) I guess everyone knew about bheesam vow of celibacy . He got name bheesam by his bheesam vow only Varna his original name was devrat.