Your thoughts on... Karn? - Page 26

Originally posted by: Roshanloverria

Karn >>>>>>>>> arjun in terms of power

You too need to read an authentic version of Mahabharata first instead of watching distorted & ridiculous tv serials😆

Originally posted by: Eloquent

Karna was a molester/rapist and nothing he did, no matter how great/horrible an archer he was, he was charitraheen/character-less.

Skill is a secondary thing, character is ultimate & he lacked completely in character.

For me, a person who initiates the molestation of a woman is as good as those Nirbhaya monsters.

There is absolutely NO justification for what he did in the vastraharan.

I can't believe molestation/rape is being defended and explained in 21st century. Figures.

That person is quoting the "andhe ka putra andha" thingy to justify Draupadi's disrobing. What can you expect. Typical Karn fan. Have no idea about original Mahabharata & singing praises of a pathetic scumbag after watching few distorted tv serials

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Ha ha

Seriously how do the Karna fans say that he was the best!!!

He was good and probably great but nowhere he was the best.

By the reading the narration I feel Vrihsena was much bigger a warrior than him. A lot of Pandava warriors had to jointly defeat him (something like what happened to Abhimanyu) before Arjun finally killed him

Karna was easily defeated by Arjun. In fact even during Mahabharata he could defeat Bheem only because Bheem didn't want to kill him, he knew Arjun has vowed to kill Karna, he was only defending himself.

Still had Karna killed Bheem at this time, he could have probably saved his best friend and his brother from this torturous death

Possible. Personally I feel Abhimanyu too was a greater warrior than Arjun.

But when it comes to Karn vs Arjun, it's Arjun all the way😆 At least Ved Vyasa had intended it to be like that. Ajkal ke tv series are writing their own story😆

I am not even talking abt arjun and bheem here at all or who is mighty and stronger everyone is wrong in that court including pandavas

I am talking abt karn as a person this guy knows rights and wrongs he chose his own destruction by supporting the wrong in his struggle is no excuse

be it pandavas kauravs and karn i have lost respect for them in the court for what they did to draupadi as a character i have no respect for karn he has done his part of sins

I hugely respect your pov too

Originally posted by: Roshanloverria

basically u want to say that all the good things done by Karn was false and all the bad things done by draupadi and other pandavas was wrongly shown in tv serial

This is hypocrisy if tv serial had shown Karn in good way then they also had shown draupadi and arjun in good way according to real Mahabharata draupadi had insulted duryohadhan and Karn and Karn had insulted draupadi so both are wrong at some instance and ur remaining Theory doesn't profs anything Karn had done a mistake of insulting draupadi and he had to suffer so much due to this mistake now there is nothing remains to fight every character of Mahabharata other than duryohadhan dushashan and sakuni was right in their places . And Mahabharata hm whi mante h Jo vyas n likhi h to m usi basis p judge krugi reality m to kisi ko pta bhi nhi h k yh sach h k nhi so judging only based on the things written in Mahabharata and other books faltu ka Dimag mt lgao

Which insult of duryodhan and karna are we talking about here. Can you provide citations ??

That andhe ka putra andha is not part of the epic. If you can provide citation from either kmg or CE where this quote is mentioned i will believe

CE also does not mention the sutputra comment. And Southern recession says that karna failed. I am more inclined to believe he failed because he had been defeated several times by arjuna and bheema.

More than anything nothing justifies abuse. Period

Originally posted by: Roshanloverria

Sorry

But I am also a girl and according to me I will judge everyone according to Mahabharata so draupadi was not great according to me she was proudy princess and there is nothing she have to respect other than the sympathy I have for her due to vastraharan act and talking about Karn then I am not going to defend his actions but he had suffered whole life due to cast still he was a great warrior jisko defeat krne k lia Indra dev ko uska kavach lena pda kitni ko apne nacho k jan bachane k bheem mangni pdi and Krishna ko chal krna pda this is enough for proofing how great warrior he was now rest bad things I are saying about Karn is just a way of defaming him

That's it

Aur ji tumne bakwas likhi h wo Mahabharata m kha likhi h btana zara ?

If you are talking according to Mahabharata then in Mahabharata karna never suffered because of his cast on the contrary he lived quite a peaceful life. It is the other characters who have suffered more than him.

TV serials ko vyasa ki Mahabharata na bataye . Tv serial are meant for drama/entertainment purposes kripya hawa main teer na chalaye.

Kmg is available online. And even pdf version is there. You can read the parts to clarify your doubta

Originally posted by: Roshanloverria

basically u want to say that all the good things done by Karn was false and all the bad things done by draupadi and other pandavas was wrongly shown in tv serial

This is hypocrisy if tv serial had shown Karn in good way then they also had shown draupadi and arjun in good way according to real Mahabharata draupadi had insulted duryohadhan and Karn and Karn had insulted draupadi so both are wrong at some instance and ur remaining Theory doesn't profs anything Karn had done a mistake of insulting draupadi and he had to suffer so much due to this mistake now there is nothing remains to fight every character of Mahabharata other than duryohadhan dushashan and sakuni was right in their places . And Mahabharata hm whi mante h Jo vyas n likhi h to m usi basis p judge krugi reality m to kisi ko pta bhi nhi h k yh sach h k nhi so judging only based on the things written in Mahabharata and other books faltu ka Dimag mt lgao

Other books me koi dimag nhi laga Raha hai. All that she said is mentioned in the Mahabharata book. She didn't give any theory but only mentioned that is written in the epic

And Karna ki Galti to koi dikhaata hi nhi hai, most shows don't even show that it was he who asked Dusshashan to disrobe Draupadi.

And no Draupadi insulted Karna (by deciding not to marry him) doesn't mean that Karna's order to disrobe her become justified. And "ordering to disrobe someone" is not a "mistake" by definition.

Plus he never had to actually "suffer" Pandavas, Bheeshm, Dhritrashtra and even Duryodhan suffered more than him

There is no way that he is even slightly better than Duryodhan, if fact I feel Duryodhan is better than Karna

@Roshanloverria We were discussing Karn, as he has been depicted in Mahabharata, the original Mahabharata by Vyasa. People in this thread have provided enough citation to back up their points from authentic versions of Mahabharata available to read, mostly KMG & Bibek Debroy's translation of CE Mahabharata by BORI. Aap mano ya na mano, those are the most authentic version of Mahabharata in terms of accuracy.

These tv serials have whitewashed & glorified Karn because that's how they earn trp. We were not discussing tv serials' Karn, because he is not the Karn Vyasa had created.

In original Mahabharata, neither Draupadi insulted Karn by saying she will not marry a Suta nor did she insult Duryodhan with that Andhe Ka Putra Andha comment. In original Mahabharata, Draupadi is the central female character & she is not this insensitive like these tv serials show. Also, in original Mahabharata, Karn has always been depicted as an antagonist. He is not someone so goody goody like these tv serials show. He is in the same league of Duryodhan tbh.

If you want to argue in favour of Karn, at least provide some citations from some authentic version of Mahabharata. This thread's main discussion topic was how these tv serials have distorted the original story and twisted things to glorify Karn and you are doing the same thing. You are not getting the point of this thread at all.

So many opinions from the Karna person and very few facts!

• Karna was a lower caste boy. Wrong!

Karna's adoptive father, Athiratha, was of Suta caste which is an intercaste of Kshatriya father and Brahmin mother.

NOTE: SUTA ≠ SHUDRA

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu/manu10.htm

• Sutas could only dive chariots. Wrong!

Suta were story tellers (Ugrasrava), charioteers (Adhirath), ministers (Sanjaya), generals (Keechak), queens (Sudeshna - queen of Matsya), kings (Anga was ruled by Suta descended from Suta king Vijaya). They were free to choose an occupation that interested them.

Santi Parva: Rajadharmanusasana Parva: Section II

• His adoptive father was a charioteer. Wrong!

Athiratha was a prince of the Ikshvaku dynasty, descended from Dasharath. He might have been king, I think, of Anga

chitra-ratha's son is → dasha-ratha … whose daughter is shAnta, who is given to the son of sage vibhANDaka, namely sage R^ishya- shR^i~Nga; dasha-ratha’s son is → catura~Nga whose descent is at the grace of sage R^ishya- shR^i~Nga, who conducted a vedic ritual called putra-kAmeShTi on behalf of dasha-ratha to effectuate the birth of chatura~na; from chatura~Nga → pR^ithula-akSha → champa; this king champa’s capital is champA-puri, aka mAlini-puri; he begot one prince called harya~Nga

...

This is the patriline from harya~Nga → bR^ihat-karmA → bR^ihad-darbha → bR^ihat-manAH → jayadratha →

...

O king janamejaya, king jayadratha is born of lady yashodevi. And from lady satya is born the celebrated king vijaya, who by his equanimity of mind and other qualities is superior to the brAhmaNa-s and by heroism and other accomplishments, is superior to the kshatriya-s...

vijaya's son is dhR^iti whose son is dhR^ita-vrata. His son is the highly illustrious satya-karma...

The son of satya-vrata through a brAhmaNa lady is a sUta - because of the rule: brAhmaNyAm kshatriya jAtaH sUta iti abhidhIyate -

and this mighty chariot-warrior draws the suffix of ratha in his name from the very same dynasty of kshatriya-s with –ratha suffix, and he is called athi-ratha, who later adopted the son of lady kunti, namely karNa as his son. It is therefore karNa is called the son of a charioteer... the family of the highly powerful karNa has thus been described. karNa's son is vR^iSha-sena whose son is vR^iSha...

https://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/hv_1_31.html

the child contained in the basket came to the city of Champa ruled by a person of the Suta tribe. Indeed, the excellent coat of mail and those ear-rings made of Amrita

https://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-mbh-03:section-306

Vaisampayana said, And it came to pass that at this time a Suta named Adhiratha, who was a friend of Dhritarashtra, came to the river Ganga, accompanied by his wife. And, O king, his wife named Radha was unparalleled on earth for beauty. And although that

https://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-mbh-03:section-307

• He was poor, Wrong!

His given name was Vasusena, which means “rich,” because he was rich. When Kunti sent him off on his boat ride, he was loaded with valuable stuff.

Then the well-known husband of Radha, of the Suta caste, took up the child thus cast into the water, and he and his wife brought him up as their own son.And Radha and her husband bestowed on him the name of Vasusena born with wealth because he was born with a natural armour and ear-rings.

https://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-mbh-01:section-111

• So how did Athiratha become Dhritharashtra’s charioteer?

After Pandu married Kunti, he starts on his Digvijay. He reaches Madradesh and marries Madri, installs her in Hastinapuri.

Then he continues on his campaign. Now, Anga/Chapa/Malini is not mentioned in his campaign, but the image shows how close he got.

https://ancientvoice.wdfiles.com/local--files/travel:pandu-s-travels/PandusMilitaryExpedition.jpg

And we know from the Rangbhumi episode, Anga was under Hastinapuri. Malini was later donated to Karna by Jarasandh, so that part was definitely annexed by him.

The following link shows what a BRUTAL conqueror Pandu was. He slaughtered the royalty of every kingdom captured by him. My guess is that, on account of his friendship with Dhritharashtra, Athiratha was allowed to live, and he chose to be a charioteer because that was the one thing he knew well.

https://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-mbh-01:section-113

• Karna was denied weapons training due to his caste. Wrong!

The Vrishnis and the Andhakas, and princes from various lands, and the adopted son of Radha of the Suta caste, Karna, all became pupils of Drona.

https://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-mbh-01:section-134

See whose name is not mentioned here even though Vrishnis are? Krishna! That’s right. The only one who wasn’t part of the elite group was KRISHNA.

Karna was accepted by Drona as his student, only one specific weapon was denied by Drona to him that was Brahmashira as he wanted that weapon to defeat Arjun. Since Drona loved Arjun dearly and felt it was wrong to hand over a weapon of mass destruction to someone who only wanted to use it to prove his superiority he refused. Karna then went ahead to Parashuram lied to him that he was a Brahman and gained the weapon but got cursed when his truth was revealed.

• Suyodhana met Karna for the first time in Rangabhoomi and made him a king when he was humiliated by Bhima. Wrong!

Suyodhana and Karna met in Drona's gurukul; they became friends as their fathers were already friends, and Karna became rival of Arjun while Suyodhana rivalled Bhima, and this cemented their friendship.

And seeing that in process of time his son had grown up, Adhiratha sent him to the city named after the elephant. And there Karna put up with Drona, for the purpose of learning arms. And that powerful youth contracted a friendship with Duryodhana. And having acquired all the four kinds of weapons from Drona, Kripa, and Rama, he became famous in the world as a mighty bowman. And after having contracted a friendship with Dhritarashtra's son, he became intent on injuring the sons of Pritha. And he was always desirous of fighting with the high-souled Falguna. And, O king, ever since they first saw each other, Karna always used to challenge Arjuna, and Arjuna, on his part, used to challenge him.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03307.htm

And isn’t it funny that Suyodhana offers Karna his own family’s kingdom back for challenging Arjuna in Rangabhoomi? And that later Jarasandh gives back Malini, which was the other half of said kingdom?

Karna was on a campaign to win back his father’s kingdom, and he was willing to sink to any level to do it. He did it to make Suyodhana happy. See for yourselves:

For those harsh words, O Krishna, that I said before unto the sons of Pandu for the gratification of Dhritarashtra's son,--for that wicked conduct of mine,--I am consumed with repentance.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05141.htm

• Some more facts.

Karna was atleast 5 - 7 years older than Yudhishtir that means he was an adult when he conspired with Suyodhana to kill the Pandavas, Bhima, specifically.

"When that terrible poison intended for the destruction of Bhima failed of its effect, Duryodhana. Karna and Sakuni, without giving up their wicked design had recourse to numerous other contrivances for accomplishing the death of the Pandavas. And though every one of these contrivances was fully known to the Pandavas, yet in accordance with the advice of Vidura they suppressed their indignation.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01130.htm

During the Pramanakoti poisoning and other attempts after it, no one had insulted Karna for being a suta (absolutely no one, not even Pandavas), no one had denied him anything. So no enmity with Pandavas, yet. No debt to Suyodhana, yet. No injustice to him, yet.

He was an adult (18–20) to know what murder is, and he chose to support Suyodhana. And later gets his reward in the form of Anga!

It’s this crucial part before Karna enters Rangabhoomi that gets covered up that highlights the real character of Karna. The moment you read this part the hue of this character changes completely.