Jodha Akbar 114: Imperator summe regnat - Page 2

No, not that, Ela, they have been thru war and narrow escapes and life threatening situations together from childhood. Ruqaiya's father was the brother who saved Humayun's life at the cost of his own, when the other stepbrother was out for Humayun's and Jalal's blood. That is the sort of bond no amount of romantic love can break. They are both alike, unsentimental to the core, but she is even worse than he was. But they understand and accept each other as is. At least till now.

How does her doing len den with Mahaam over Adham's trespassing into the harem reflect on her relationship with Jalal? And what has she 'taken' from Jalal? She is not Cophetua's beggar maid, but a true blue Mughal princess, the paternal grand daughter of Babur just as Jalal is his paternal grandson, and thus Jalal's equal in birth and in rights to the Mughal riches.Far better born than a princess from a tiny little riyasat like Amer. Hers with Jalal is a union of equals. No wonder he pampers her with jewels and anything else she wants, and treats her as his confidante and his best friend.

As against this, it is Jodha who has taken and taken from Jalal, and given nothing in return till now . First, the security of Amer, for which her father bartered her with her consent and Jalal's acceptance of her conditions. The marriage implied normal conjugal relations and acceptable wifely behaviour, but she neatly sidesteps that obligation (and this well before he rants in a drunken rage that he will never come near her, which has now become, by some strange alchemy, a cast iron promise!) or even any obligation to be polite to her imperial husband. Which ordinary husband even today will stand for being treated like this? Maharana Udai Singh would have sent her to the kaalkotri in a jiffy.

Jalal has since given endlessly to her and her banyan tree like family - the returned jurmana levied by Sharifuddin, a bridegroom for Sukanya (that the Rajvanshis boycotted Bharmal for the Jodha-Jalal marriage is not Jalal's fault) , then the Ratanpur fort, plus innumerable rich gifts. He forgives her unbelievable folly in the narnaal affair which nearly killed him.

He is ready to give up his throne to keep his word to her about not forcing her to convert ( a very irresponsible offer on his part,but that is a separate issue). He takes the trouble to pick just the right gift for her birthday. He goes to tremendous lengths to protect her in this virtual baby crisis.

And what, pray, has she given him? Zilch, and till the other day she constantly proclaims to his face that she hates him. Even her gratitude now is totally self-centred; nary a thought about him and what he might feel at any time, and especially in the Bakshi Banu affair.

The only saving grace is that this Jalal is not for real. Akbar was a Central Asian emperor, and any wife who gave him even one hundredth of this impertinence would have been toast in an instant, political plans or no political plans.

Plus, I do not at all think Jalal is happy that Jodha pardoned and freed Bakshi Banu. Ms. Mahaanta may imagine so, but she understands Jalal as little as Hamida does. No wonder she does not say a word about what he must be feeling about this vile betrayal by the sister he adored. Instead, she preaches at him, that too with borrowed, undigested ideas, about forgiveness

And now she is lecturing Ruqaiya about love! It is side-splitting!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: elasingh

BTW since when Ruku has been through thin with Jalal...I didn't see her comforting Jalal any time but I did see her doing LEN DEN with MA when AK entered harem...hope you have not forgotten it...and Ruku is a woman who only took and took from Jalal...

Shyamala plz be fair...

i got time to read all your posts for the week. You give a overall all round analysis and point to things that others may have not thought off.

After watching Jalal in that episode, if you can still say that his asking Jodha to pronounce judgement was a clever ploy, I have, literally, nothing to say.

If he had wanted only to save his sister, he need never have exposed her, but talked of an unknown ark mixer and carried on from there. Why would he bring everything out and then indulge in all these roundabout, unsure methods? And do you really imagine he would not feel anything about such base treachery from his sister?. But for someone so convinced of your own standpoint, it would not help to point all this out either,

As for Ms.Mahaanta, of course she does not owe Jalal anything. Wny should she, when he is fool enough to be ready to give up his throne to keep his word to her? As for Hamida, the less said about how much she understands her son the better. No wonder he never turns to her when he needs any comforting. In his place, I would not either, .

Shyamala

Originally posted by: elasingh

Jallu very well knew that Jodha is a soft hearted girl and what kind of verdict she will give...Yet he asked her to give the verdict...It was his master stroke...

And HB summed up Jallu quite well when she said king is defeated by brother...becoz jallu knew BB will go scott free...

So jodha is no longer under any obligation to Jallu...

I agree completely with all this. Do see my response to Ela above about Ruqaiya; it will interest you as I have gone into this same aspect in even greater detail.

I love your historical insights.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: myviewprem

i got time to read all your posts for the week. You give a overall all round analysis and point to things that others may have not thought off.

With precap you are bang on Ruqu married Jalla when his father was a refuge a stateless wanderer. So Jodha has no rights to question her love. Ruqu is not only Jalal' wife she is his blood relative his first cousin and just like bakshi bano jalal will always care and love her and her pain and happiness will make a difference in his heart.

Ruqu is still immature a child-woman who is possessive of jalal which is natural if you are married to that person at age of 9

Originally posted by: sashashyam

No, not that, Ela, they have been thru war and narrow escapes and life threatening situations together from childhood. Ruqaiya's father was the brother who saved Humayun's life at the cost of his own, when the other stepbrother was out for Humayun's and Jalal's blood. That is the sort of bond no amount of romantic love can break. They are both alike, unsentimental to the core, but she is even worse than he was. But they understand and accept each other as is. At least till now.

How does her doing len den with Mahaam over Adham's trespassing into the harem reflect on her relationship with Jalal? And what has she 'taken' from Jalal? She is not Cophetua's beggar maid, but a true blue Mughal princess, the paternal grand daughter of Babur just as Jalal is his paternal grandson, and thus Jalal's equal in birth and in rights to the Mughal riches.Far better born than a princess from a tiny little riyasat like Amer. Hers with Jalal is a union of equals. No wonder he pampers her with jewels and anything else she wants, and treats her as his confidante and his best friend.

As against this, it is Jodha who has taken and taken from Jalal, and given nothing in return till now . First, the security of Amer, for which her father bartered her with her consent and Jalal's acceptance of her conditions. The marriage implied normal conjugal relations and acceptable wifely behaviour, but she neatly sidesteps that obligation (and this well before he rants in a drunken rage that he will never come near her, which has now become, by some strange alchemy, a cast iron promise!) or even any obligation to be polite to her imperial husband. Which ordinary husband even today will stand for being treated like this? Maharana Udai Singh would have sent her to the kaalkotri in a jiffy.

Jalal has since given endlessly to her and her banyan tree like family - the returned jurmana levied by Sharifuddin, a bridegroom for Sukanya (that the Rajvanshis boycotted Bharmal for the Jodha-Jalal marriage is not Jalal's fault) , then the Ratanpur fort, plus innumerable rich gifts. He forgives her unbelievable folly in the narnaal affair which nearly killed him.

He is ready to give up his throne to keep his word to her about not forcing her to convert ( a very irresponsible offer on his part,but that is a separate issue). He takes the trouble to pick just the right gift for her birthday. He goes to tremendous lengths to protect her in this virtual baby crisis.

And what, pray, has she given him? Zilch, and till the other day she constantly proclaims to his face that she hates him. Even her gratitude now is totally self-centred; nary a thought about him and what he might feel at any time, and especially in the Bakshi Banu affair.

The only saving grace is that this Jalal is not for real. Akbar was a Central Asian emperor, and any wife who gave him even one hundredth of this impertinence would have been toast in an instant, political plans or no political plans.

Plus, I do not at all think Jalal is happy that Jodha pardoned and freed Bakshi Banu. Ms. Mahaanta may imagine so, but she understands Jalal as little as Hamida does. No wonder she does not say a word about what he must be feeling about this vile betrayal by the sister he adored. Instead, she preaches at him, that too with borrowed, undigested ideas, about forgiveness

And now she is lecturing Ruqaiya about love! It is side-splitting!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: sashashyam

After watching Jalal in that episode, if you can still say that his asking Jodha to pronounce judgement was a clever ploy, I have, literally, nothing to say.

If he had wanted only to save his sister, he need never have exposed her, but talked of an unknown ark mixer and carried on from there. Why would he bring everything out and then indulge in all these roundabout, unsure methods? And do you really imagine he would not feel anything about such base treachery from his sister?. But for someone so convinced of your own standpoint, it would not help to point all this out either,

As for Ms.Mahaanta, of course she does not owe Jalal anything. Wny should she, when he is fool enough to be ready to give up his throne to keep his word to her? As for Hamida, the less said about how much she understands her son the better. No wonder he never turns to her when he needs any comforting. In his place, I would not either, .

Shyamala

I would like to say this here - it is splitting hair when one talks of who has given and who has taken - more or less does not matter. It is all contextual. Both Akbar and Jodha have given (even at the current point of show) and both have definitely taken. More or less is just a measuring scale.

Originally posted by: elasingh

BTW since when Ruku has been through thin with Jalal...I didn't see her comforting Jalal any time but I did see her doing LEN DEN with MA when AK entered harem...hope you have not forgotten it...and Ruku is a woman who only took and took from Jalal...

Shyamala plz be fair...

Originally posted by: munnirony

just one point here. when hoshiyar gave the idea to kill jodha's kid, ruquiya immediately slapped him bcoz she didnt wanted to harm jalal's child & 2ndly, during the MC track she saved jodha's life from jalal bcoz she didnt wanted jalal to take any wrong decisions. ruquiya easily could have taken the opportunity but only for jalal's sake she didnt do tht. she did it only for jalal. she stood for jalal's child & his honor despite she hates jodha. so this is a big thing which she gave jalal, bcoz in those days it was very common to kill other queen's kids for positions, whether its rajvanshis or the mughals.

Well, Ela my dear, this is becoming interminable, and we are clearly not going to agree on anything, but just a couple of points.

Jalal making that speech to the awaam had NOTHING to do with his liking or not liking Jodha's verdict. It was meant to protect her reputation, and also that of his family, among the awaam. He would have done the same even he had hated it. Note that he said nothing about Bakshi Banu in that speech.

As for "Jalal saved Jodha's honour and Jodha saved his sister", as I wrote above, if he never intended Bakshi Banu to be punished, he would never have exposed her at all. So this argument falls thru.

I do not think Jalal is keeping an account book, but as for the Ratanpur fort, the whole Ameri lot was, right from that blow up with the Rat King in the kanyadhan ceremony, hoping and trying to get Jalal to disgorge the fort.Why else does Bharmal tell the Rat King he needs time to persuade the Shahenshah?

And when Jodha was doing her supportive begum and regretful bahu spiel with Jalal and the rest (which I loved), she says that she is sure he will find another bridegroom for Sukanya, so that is now obviously his responsibility Since when have sons in law taken on such burdens from their wife's family, and that too a wife who hates you and makes no bones about it?

Correction: Jalal has not taken over Amer, which he could easily have done. That is what usually happens when you lose a war. Bharmal is still the Raja there, plus a Mansabdar of the Mughal empire, which is a different basket. Plus, Jalal's protection keeps off his Rajvanshi enemies, who would otherwise, as Dadisa pointed out, long since have swallowed Amer.

No, I do not find Ruqiaya's casual inhumanity vis a vis Moti acceptable, but that is the way they were, and the servants were lesser mortals for them and dispensable.

Agreed that Jodha will not do any len den behind Jalal's back. She will do it right in front of him. As she did with that spiel of hers, spouting all kinds of perfect bahu nonsense, not a word of which did she mean. If I was to argue as you do, I would say that it was an elaborate trick meant to make Jalal feel obliged to give up the fort. and I would be correct.

And it worked. His hand was not forced by Sharifuddin. Where on earth did you get that.? Jalal had clearly made up his mind to leave for Agra, and it was only after Jodha's playacting as the ideal wife and bahu that he changed his mind. Why are you depriving Jodha of the credit due to her for her productive and extremely successful hypocrisy? It showed that when pushed to it, she can be as siyasaati as the best of them. and I liked it. What I detest is this holier than thou preaching that she specialises in.

The interesting thing is that after all has been tied up and she has got what she wants, Jodha still not only tells her husband that he cannot touch her, but also accuses him of always trying to mauke ka fayada uthana. I find her obsession with the physical side of marriage very bizarre, and possibly revealing. But her comment about Jalal and that daasi was the pits, and what it said about her needs no elaboration. No lady, not to speak of a princess, would ever have descended to such depths.

If she had married a macho Rajvanshi, the conjugal rights issued would have been resolved straightway, and if she had raised her voice, she would have caught it good and proper. Watch Maharana Pratap for a change, it is far more authentic than JA, and is very clear on how queens were expected to behave, and had to. Jodha would have been whipped into shape in a week or sent back home in disgrace.Where they would not have let her in.

There, now you can contradict all of the above and have the last word. I am not coming back!😉

Shyamala,

Originally posted by: elasingh

Jalal has not given her any thing till date...and I repeat anything...He got both Amer and Jodha and BM is reduced to be only a mansabdar...in simple words a subordinate to Jalal who can be transferred or can be removed from the post...any time...

The fort was promised by Sd and not once during those tension filled time did any of Ameri family or Jo asked him to give it to the groom...It was Jalal's own will which was actually forced by shirfu...Jodha is not some money grabbing leach...

If Jalal was not happy with Jodha's decision then he would not have given that speech to Awam...

Jalal was ready to give up his throne for the promise he made to her...not for Jodha and Jalal was not at all convincing in those moments of tension...it was as if he secretly wanted her to agree to convert...

Jalal saved Jodha's honour and Jodha saved his sister...Matter closed...Jodha still has not reached that level of attraction for him to do something extra...

This woman when she falls in love with Jalal will never do any Len den behind his back...Ruku was willing to let Jalal make a wrong decision and let innocent MB die...Do you find it admirable?

I dont...

Originally posted by: sashashyam

No, not that, Ela, they have been thru war and narrow escapes and life threatening situations together from childhood. Ruqaiya's father was the brother who saved Humayun's life at the cost of his own, when the other stepbrother was out for Humayun's and Jalal's blood. That is the sort of bond no amount of romantic love can break. They are both alike, unsentimental to the core, but she is even worse than he was. But they understand and accept each other as is. At least till now.

How does her doing len den with Mahaam over Adham's trespassing into the harem reflect on her relationship with Jalal? And what has she 'taken' from Jalal? She is not Cophetua's beggar maid, but a true blue Mughal princess, the paternal grand daughter of Babur just as Jalal is his paternal grandson, and thus Jalal's equal in birth and in rights to the Mughal riches.Far better born than a princess from a tiny little riyasat like Amer. Hers with Jalal is a union of equals. No wonder he pampers her with jewels and anything else she wants, and treats her as his confidante and his best friend.

As against this, it is Jodha who has taken and taken from Jalal, and given nothing in return till now . First, the security of Amer, for which her father bartered her with her consent and Jalal's acceptance of her conditions. The marriage implied normal conjugal relations and acceptable wifely behaviour, but she neatly sidesteps that obligation (and this well before he rants in a drunken rage that he will never come near her, which has now become, by some strange alchemy, a cast iron promise!) or even any obligation to be polite to her imperial husband. Which ordinary husband even today will stand for being treated like this? Maharana Udai Singh would have sent her to the kaalkotri in a jiffy.

Jalal has since given endlessly to her and her banyan tree like family - the returned jurmana levied by Sharifuddin, a bridegroom for Sukanya (that the Rajvanshis boycotted Bharmal for the Jodha-Jalal marriage is not Jalal's fault) , then the Ratanpur fort, plus innumerable rich gifts. He forgives her unbelievable folly in the narnaal affair which nearly killed him.

He is ready to give up his throne to keep his word to her about not forcing her to convert ( a very irresponsible offer on his part,but that is a separate issue). He takes the trouble to pick just the right gift for her birthday. He goes to tremendous lengths to protect her in this virtual baby crisis.

And what, pray, has she given him? Zilch, and till the other day she constantly proclaims to his face that she hates him. Even her gratitude now is totally self-centred; nary a thought about him and what he might feel at any time, and especially in the Bakshi Banu affair.

The only saving grace is that this Jalal is not for real. Akbar was a Central Asian emperor, and any wife who gave him even one hundredth of this impertinence would have been toast in an instant, political plans or no political plans.

Plus, I do not at all think Jalal is happy that Jodha pardoned and freed Bakshi Banu. Ms. Mahaanta may imagine so, but she understands Jalal as little as Hamida does. No wonder she does not say a word about what he must be feeling about this vile betrayal by the sister he adored. Instead, she preaches at him, that too with borrowed, undigested ideas, about forgiveness

And now she is lecturing Ruqaiya about love! It is side-splitting!

Shyamala