The two Jalals - Page 2

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Suvi,

I agree, but why is it said that he is ruthless when he kills over 20 Rajput soldiers singlehandedly? What else does a warrior do in this situation, pray to them? Of course he will try and kill all of them, as that is the only way for him to get away. In a real war, he would have been given the Param Vir Chakra.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I agree, my dear, but in the opening post, which was the one I was responding to, plus Suvi's ciomment, the reference to ruthlessness was only in the context of that fight yesterday. So, in that context, calling him ruthless was not logical, would you not agree?

The way he enjoyed killing others made me feel so...Yes, 'desire' is the better word...
As for jauhar, yes, it was done only as a last resort, when their enslavement by the enemy after the defeat and rout of their army was a foregone conclusion. Under those circumstances, it was entirely understandable, though it must have taken great physical courage. Perhaps the mass nature of the self-immolation, and the consciousness of upholding their maryada would have helped them face it.

When I was explaining the jauhar pratha to Westerners on my diplomatic assignments abroad, I always had to set it out in the context of what their fate in enemy control would have been. Continuous, acute humiliation for life and constant physical defilement; like being sold into the flesh trade. It would have been far worse than an instant death in a blazing inferno. So, when you see the jauhar as over dramatic and uncalled for, you have to keep in mind the sure fate that awaited them in slavery. I would personally have chosen the jauhar any day.

Jauhar used to be the only option for women...torture, humiliation day in day out...one can't even imagine the plight of the women...in yesterday's episode, it was Abdul who was disappointed about jodha not being abducted...she saved his life...and, this is what she gets...
The sad thing is that the Rajputs here seem to have the same attitude toward the womenfolk of the enemy. The kind of respect and honour to be accorded to all non-combatants, especially women, as part of the traditional yuddha dharma seem to have long since vanished by the 16th century.

Jodha is furious because he has made a fool of her, and she has unknowingly saved his life. In fact, she does that twice, not only during the prison encounter, but earlier, though she does not know it, when she stops the execution of Abdul. If she had not done so, Jalal would have come charging out, dagger in hand, and however hard or well he fought, he would have been overpowered and killed, or worse for him, imprisoned and humiliated.

As for the last para, I agree in toto. That is the way powerful men even today look at their trophy wives!

And it's cringeworthy...even the highly 'educated' ( if, we call them so) are mostly the same...Sometimes, the women do not even realise that...i have seen this happening to my seniors, classmates...bright, confident, independent women...still comfortable with this status quo...😕

To revert, that is just how Jalal feels at the moment, plus he feels a combination of reluctant admiration and anger at her having put a sword to his throat. A woman to do that to the Shahenshah- intolerable! That is what he feels, but when he is back in his camp, the reluctant admiration seems to take over completely.

Shyamala B.Cowsiik

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Suvi,

That is how all warriors fight. They psyche themselves up to hate the enemy.

If not, they would never be able to kill those who have, individually, done them no harm, even though the entity controlling them would have done the warrior and his family/country a great deal of harm. Have you ever seen, in the movies, an army drill sergeant conducting bayonet practice for young recruits? Think back to that and you will see why Jalal roars in exultation at the end of the fight yesterday.

He does not really enjoy killing others, that would make him a sadist; he is exultant at having finished the job cleanly so that he can save Abdul and himself too. Remember when Bairam Khan wants him to execute that foolish soldier who is so besotted with Jodha's beauty, for chickening out in that fight? Jalal refuses, saying mare hue ko kya marna. A sadist would have cut the poor chap's head off in an instant.

Point taken👍🏼
The only instance of wanton cruelty on the part of Jalal shown so far is when he has that shoe thief's feet cut off. It was awful for our current sensibilities. But those times were much more overtly brutal. In fact, even in 19th century England, teenagers caught stealing a loaf of bread were legally sentenced to transportation to the penal colonies in Australia for life. That, to my mind was just as bad as the feet cutting, in fact worse, for most of those deportees died in the very harsh in the penal colonies.
Ouch...history has been written in blood(majorily of helpless and weak)
Lastly, Abdul. You must remember that the Jodha alternative would have involved Abdul being left back to face torture and lifelong imprisonment. So, when he suggests that, besides the trademark cheekiness of a court jester, he is being unselfish. He feels that (a) his beloved Shahenshah would have gained something very rare and valuable and (b) that Jodha should feel honoured at having been carried off by no one other than such a great man.
Possible...for Abdul, his shehenshah is the best thing that has happened to this planet...so, point b is a strong possibility...
In fact, as I wrote elsewhere, I wish he had tried it. Careening all over the Rajasthan countryside in the dark, trying to control a woman who would all the time have been trying to scratch his eyes out, if not decapitate him with his own khanjar. Nice going!😉
😆😆😆This would have been great...that would have been a serious test of shehenshah...
Shyamala B.Cowsik
Thank you for your valuable comments😊

Originally posted by: sashashyam

When I was explaining the jauhar pratha to Westerners on my diplomatic assignments abroad, I always had to set it out in the context of what their fate in enemy control would have been. Continuous, acute humiliation for life and constant physical defilement; like being sold into the flesh trade. It would have been far worse than an instant death in a blazing inferno. So, when you see the jauhar as over dramatic and uncalled for, you have to keep in mind the sure fate that awaited them in slavery. I would personally have chosen the jauhar any day.