Duryodhan- A Misunderstood Character Or Not?

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#31

Originally posted by: Ankita_88
i am sorry guys....i dont want to hurt anyone....but what i am trying to say is all the online versions of VEDAS strictly follow the MAXMULLER version who corrupted our religion.......so i will rqst not to follow his versions....i checked everything thats why i am saying...he is the one who is responsible for the detoriation of Hinduism....if anyone wants to know the real truth , then one should read "Satyarthprakash" which was written by Dayanand Saraswati...and more on this case i can take Rishi Aurobindo's name....!!!!

Shastra...huh....lets not talk abt shastra...those brahmins who claimed that i know it all said that sati is followed by vedas....but actually vedas say something different...in fact internet wikipedia google everything gave this same worng info....but it was raja rammohan roy who abolished sati showing that Shastra never said such things....rishi Dayanand Saraswati tooo helped him at that time...after that he became sooooo irritated that he left hinduism and established Brahmadharma completely based on Vedas...

this is just an example...

Yeah, I also am dubious about whether Sati was actually in the Shastras or not. There are a lot of interpollations in today's versions, but when we look to the puranas, there are stories of some women who did not commit sati and took the shastras as defense. I am trying to think of an explicit example, but the Rajmatas in Ramayan are one. One would think the rules of the Treta Yug would be even stricter than now, but no one forced them to commit Sati....either that is because such a barbaric practice did not exist at all in the real shastras, or Kshatriya women were an exception.😳

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-SilverFlames-

@-SilverFlames-

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 14 years ago

#32

@Ratilal: I am not a big fan of Duryodhan either and I can not agree that Draupadi was wrong. She was simply mocking him fair enough she was being blunt but is she not his bhabhi? She was Yudistar's wife also so.. can she not mock him? He did so many horrible and unfair things to her husbands.

I agree however about free- will and that Duryodhan should have known his own rights/wrongs.

And I think Bhim was right in taking his oath, everyone must pay for their misdeeds so why not Duryodhan. The Pandavas paid for playing dice as they did by going into exile, they lost all their sons...

^^ I don't totally agree that Bhim's oath was necessary and yes everyone MUST pay for their misdeeds but such a harsh death? Maybe it was deemed right but personally I can't see any reason why such drastic measures and about Pandavas lose well in Mahabharat nobody gained.

If Pandavas lost their sons so did Gandhari. No one gained from the war. Only lose. but it was a righeous war so it didn't really matter how many lived or died. It was to save Mankind and the future.

I agree God works in most mysterious/righeous ways but for our benefit.

@Lakshmin42: I agreed with mostly everything you have said. In my eyes Duryodhan was far gone with greed, want, jealousy that he was blinded by hatred for those who were his own.

On many occasions people explained to him the extent of what would come but he was so proud and his ego was so nothing but wanting what was not his and inevitable he was punished.

@Janu- Duryodhan was depicted as a greedy and selfish man. I personally don't feel sorry for him and yes he deserved to treated the way he was. There is a difference between necessity, right and desire. Seeing Indraprast Duryodhan's desires wanted to snatch and take something that was not entitled to him and he met his destiny.

I think having a father such as Dhitrastashtra didn't help. Shukuni did vow to destroy the clan BUT it was upto the King to listen to his wife and decide in the Kingdoms favour, therefore the blame from my behalf lies with Dhitrastrashtra more because he was so overcome by the love for his son that he lead his own kingdom to doom. I also think his own greed for the throne was unfair seeing as at the time the most important thing should have been being a father to King Pandu's children?

One of my favourite characters in Mahabharat apart from Bhagwan Krishan was, is Karna. He treated Draupdi with disrespect but yet I have utmost respect for him.

@Lola: Great to be back! (I entered the Banner contest.. sent some entries in will try and do couple more. :))

"You foul, loathsome, evil little cockroach!" -

"Evil Little Coachroch"- HP3 Dramione scene.. :D (Love Dramione&Ronmione.. one of my favourite book collections/films) Huge HP fan.. 😳

Anyway.. away from distractions.. =)

I agree.. He was truly dilusional at so many things and the fact that such a young age he decided to feel such strong hatred was in my view just wrong.. :(

He had NO reason to be so evil at such an age and towards someone who was literally his twin? In another age.. In another time, Bhim/Duryodhan could have been each others strenghts.! He just didn't see past his ego, and jealousy although he had all and they had nothing.

Sometimes having everything is NEVER enough.

@Aishu:I agree hun! Personally I find Dhitrastashtra more to blame as he should have stepped in and said STOP but that never happened and when he wanted to it was too late. =(

@Ankita; Such a true point. Every woman should be respected NO matter what.

@Rehan_DarkLord.. Some great points made and yes a Ruler must make himself worthy of being the ruler yet no one seemed to see it that way. What I personally don't understand is why right from the first generation through to Duryodhan didn't understand was that the throne was never ANY of theirs. King Bharat wasn't even their ancestor?(Or am I incorrect- someone quote mee on that) so why the arguing? Would they have been destined Hastinapur, Kandavprast- or any other Kingdom if King Bharat had given it to his own sons?

Thats my point? I mean look at Ramayan- in that they were so much more about relationships than mere land.

Mahabharat/Bhagwad Gita just goes to show that materialistic things are merely materialistic. They stay here once we become dust so why cause so much hatred for them? Did anyone gain? Everyone lost something or another.

Thank you everybody who answered.. Loved reading everyone's answers and now I have more points to use against my brother in our debates.. :D

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Sattvik

@sattvik

Dazzler

Posted: 14 years ago

#33

First of all. SANJUUU 😃

Originally posted by: _Sanjana23_
A) Dritharastra was the legal, rightful first heir to the throne so rightfully the throne SHOULD have been passed on to Duryodhan regardless of his father's shortcomings? How far do you all agree?

I agree, he should have been the next to the throne, but still, its upto the current King to decide who gets the throne, is it not? Who ever does get it should fulfill the role well, do you think Duryodhan would have done this? No. But still, yeah it was his right first, since he was the eldest.

Originally posted by: _Sanjana23_
B)Duryodhan was treated unfairly for very long by the Pandavas and had a close enemity with Bhim when they could have been each others strength so is Duryodhan alone to blame?
D)Why were Pandavas as children always favoured especially with Pitaamah Bhishma? Did that occur to anyone that the difference would cause hatred between the two?

That is very true, I mean, as children, we all want attention and if we don't, we usually end up not being good. So technically it is in the upbringing that Duryodhan turned the way he did. But still, he could have changed at so many oppurtunities and never did. One does not always have to hate just because they get more attention. He should have just been extra nice and taken the attention more. But he didn't.

Originally posted by: _Sanjana23_
C)Gandhari knew her brother's bad influence would cause destruction to her family. So why did she not intervene? Is it not fair to say that Duryodhan was failed as a child by his parents for correct upbringing?

Did she know this?

Originally posted by: _Sanjana23_

And finally E) Draupadi's taunts were distasteful, evil and malicious. Was it fair that he was treated in such a manner? Is there not a line to be drawn were such mockery should not be allowed? Is Duryodhan's anger not justified?

His anger is partially justified, obviously people thing to avenge insults, but still, you don't have to always fight and revenge, you can just be like "immature child with words to hurt" and move on. Although its a bit hard with hot tempered peoples. Like Duryodhan.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#34

I wanted to touch on a different aspect of Duryodhan than the one discussed by Sanjana in the OP. Was he a coward?

I tend to argue 'yes'. On the 18th day of the war, after being defeated in battle by Dhrishtadyumna, he fled the field, and entered that lake. Ashwatthama, Kripa & Kritavarma, who had been defeated as well, too left the battlefield to look for him. In the interim, Arjun killed Susharma, Bhima killed the remainder of Duryodhan's brothers (and no, the last one was not Dushashan) and Sahadev killed Ulooka & Shakuni. The plight of his army was so bad that even Sanjaya, who was giving Dhritarashtra a live commentary, tried joining the battle, and was quickly captured by Satyaki and beaten up 😆, but Vyasa got him released.

At any rate, why did Duryodhan leave the battlefield? Earlier, he had killed Chekitan, so he should have tackled Bhima head on, and that would have made the killing of Shalya that much more difficult. Even at this stage, had Duryodhan locked Bhima out of fighting anyone else, that would have done wonders for his army. In fact, throughout the war, it was Bhima and Arjuna who killed the bulk of Kaurava warriors, just as on the Kaurava side, it was Drona & Ashwatthama. So had Duryodhan locked Bhima in battle, never letting him out of his sight, and had someone like Bheeshma or Drona done the same for Arjun and Satyaki, the war would have been that much easier for the Kauravas, who had a lot more accomplished warriors on their side than did the Pandavas.

Duryodhan's cowardice was even more highlighted by how he made Bheeshma, Drona, Kripa & Ashwatthama fight on his side, and even tricked Shalya into joining him 😡 Also, on day 14, Duryodhan kept sending his brothers to defend Karna from Bhima, and all of them ended up getting killed. Despite having a superior army, Duryodhan's own lack of courage was so much that his army hemorraged warriors assigned to ridiculous goals, like protecting Jayadrath.

Given all this, it was ironic that when he had his final argument w/ Krishna after Bhima felled him, he talked about his own courage. If it was there, I just didn't see it - not in this war, and not in the battle w/ the Gandharvas when he was captured by Chitrasena. Throughout the Mahabharat, it's peppered w/ references to his strength and valor, but I never read of any evidence of it. It was Karna who re-conquered a number of rulers who had accepted Pandava supremacy before the Rajasuya yagna, but not Duryodhan. When Samba captured his daughter Lakshmanaa, it took a combined Bheeshma, Drona, Kripa, Karna, et al to defeat and capture him, b4 Balarama went to get him back.

The other thing that struck me was - why didn't Dhritarashtra/Gandhari simply disown him and Dushashan, and simply name their 3rd son, or someone else, like Vikarna, as their successor? After the war, Gandhari complained to Bhima that he spared none of her sons, but if she and her husband hadn't put everything on Duryodhan but instead decided to lose him and get one of their other sons to succeed them, they'd still have had 98 sons or so. That's why Gandhari's curse on Krishna, even though understandable, wasn't acceptable, since she never looked @ ways for saving the rest of her sons even though just 2 had strayed (I think Dushashan was a villain even b4 he dragged Draupadi into that court).

Anyway, I digress, so back to my question - is there any evidence to back all the claims of Duryodhan's valor, or is my above observation about him being a coward accurate?

Edited by _Vrish_ - 14 years ago

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#35

^^ I think it's 100% accurate. I personally never saw any courage or bravery in Duryodhan. He may have had physical strength, but he was a coward to the bone and that is evidenced throughout the Mahabharat. He always depended on everyone, whether it be Bhishma, Karna, Drona, etc, to get the job done and never did anything himself...kind of like today's politicians. And Dhritarastra and Gandhari were the worst set of parents any child could have. Gandhari was a bit better, yes, but she did not do enough to curb Duryodhan and Dushashan except whine and weep. They never gave her any respect or value as a mother because she was not stern and authoritative enough. Dhritarastra was even worse. Not only was he a very bad father, but he was also a terrible King because all he ever thought about was his sons. He did not give a care for his praja and their wellbeing was always secondary to him as long as Duryodhan was happy. He was obsessed with Duryodhan to the point that his moral judgment was impaired.

So though Duryodhan turned out to be such a despicable character, more than half the blame would go towards his parents and also Shakuni. Familial influence has a great impact on children more than even their peers.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#36

Reading the past few pages, I agree w/ you on Gandhari viz a viz Shakuni. If she had expelled him from Hastinapur, he'd have been gone - no one else could have kept him. Contrary to what they showed in the serials, she was only too happy to keep him.

Also, I had known that Draupadi was never involved in the insult of Duryodhan, but thought that only Bhima was involved, not ANS. The sacred-texts extract that you produced seemed to suggest precisely that.

Another topic - I'm not sure where to discuss it, but seeing some of the old RS SK episodes on Star Utsav, I noticed a few very strange things. First of all, they showed Nakul kill Shakuni, and that too b4 the slaying of Shalya. Then they showed Bhima kill Dushashan after the killing of Shalya. But Bhima had killed Dushashan shortly b4 Karna was killed, not much after. And finally, that night, they showed Duryodhan urging Ashwatthama to attack the Pandavas @ night.

As it is, I don't like out of sequence battles, but to make things worse there, the serial seemed to try and at least partially whitewash Ashwatthama by showing Duryodhan be the one who suggested the night attack. Much as I loathe him, Duryodhan did nothing of the sort. AKK had seen him that night after the battle w/ Bhima, and hearing about Ashwatthama's desire for revenge, Duryodhan made him senapati of that army of 3. After they massacred the Panchalas, they returned to Duryodhan and Ashwatthama told him about their victory. Duryodhan heard it, congratulated him and breathed his last.

But the way the seral showed it, one would think that Ashwatthama was as innocent as Drona, and it was Duryodhan who poisoned his mind.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#37

^^ I don't know how true that extract is, because I got it from a translation of MB online...one would have to read the actual text to know whether ANS were also involved in Duryodhan's insult, but not many know that Draupadi was not. It's become so popular to show Draupadi laughing at Duryodhan in almost every serial and movie that portrays Mahabharat, that I wonder from which version that story comes from. It's definitely not Veda Vyasa's MB, but everyone seems to think it is.

As for SK's portrayal of Mahabharat, they got a lot of events wrong or put them in the wrong sequence. Not only this, but they show Bhishma fighting for Duryodhan longer than he did, and they also show Draupadi tricking him into going against his vow to kill the Pandavas, kind of making her character a bit selfish. :( I haven't finished the serial yet since my family and I began from episode #1 since November of last year, but right now we're at the part where Duryodhan got his thighs broken by Bhima.

Btw, to discuss SK you can come to the Ramand Sagar discussion thread I created.

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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

#38

Originally posted by: _Vrish_

But the way the seral showed it, one would think that Ashwatthama was as innocent as Drona, and it was Duryodhan who poisoned his mind.

More on the rest later, but if Drona was actually innocent I'd like to hear more about that please. I have a tendency to not really like him, but I'm open to changing that 😳

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#39

By Drona's innocence, I meant b4 the war, when he was one of those trying to persuade Duryodhan to make peace w/ the Pandavas. As far as the war itself went, he was a war criminal.

Janaki, I searched - which thread is that?

Edited by _Vrish_ - 14 years ago

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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

#40

^^ Actually if y'all don't mind, I'd rather keep this strain of the SK discussion here. If we're talking about misconceptions regarding the character of Duryodhan that lead to undeserved sympathies or criticisms, we would do well to bring in the bits and pieces from all visual representations that might have contributed to it. Serials, old mytho movies, novels, etc. all can be brought in to make this a constructive discussion of the treatment and reception of an anti-hero. So long as we don't veer into subjective criticisms of acting, special effects, etc. and stick to the script, I think I like where this conversation can go.

Edited by lola610 - 14 years ago

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Duryodhan- A Misunderstood Character Or Not? - Page 4

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