is harry's scar a hocrux?

potter4ever thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#1
Harry's scar and Lily's Sacrifice : a quick revision
How does one split their soul and make a Horcrux?

Reading many essays recently, whatever the topic of the essay may have been, the comments eventually get around to Horcruxes etc. I say etc as this includes, how many Horcruxes LV has made, what they could be, whether Harry is an accidental one, or his scar is one. But how did it happen....

The most mechanical essay I read, in terms of schematics, was Brandon Ford's Half-Blood, Full Hero: Part 3 Harry and the Horcruxes He poses the point and click theory.

The only creation or intended creations of Horcruxes concerning Harry, we know of in some detail occurred in Godric's Hollow Halloween 1981. Lets quickly just go through the events.

1. Voldemort kills James = a soul split
2. Voldemort tries to kill Harry by giving Lily the option to live and step aside.
3. Voldemort has to kill Lily = another soul split
4. Lily leaves her blood sacrifice on Harry
5. Voldemort takes aim at Harry and shouts Avada Kedavra
6. BOOM ! Green light. Harry lives, Voldemort becomes Vapormort.
7. Voldemort's body unaccounted for.

So by the time LV encounters baby Harry, he has already undergone two soul splits. The question that bugs/blinds me somewhat is: do you need to split your soul in order to power the Avada Kedavra? Or is your soul split from taking the life of another? I was up until now inclined to believe that the latter was the way to understand the whole thing. But more recently (and in order to fuel my Harry's scar could be a Horcrux mission) I have been thinking about the schematics of trying to murder someone, while splitting your soul, while remembering to bring your own object to encase your soul, while remembering to encase the soul with a spell, while remembering to aim straight!

Method 1 : The by product of killing someone results in splitting of soul

The order of events would go something like this.

1. Intent to kill (powers the curse to work) (unknown)
2. Incantation – Avada Kedavra
3. The person dies
4. The soul cannot cope with the complexity of evil of the murder and splits
5. Soul fragment remains/lost

Flaws with the theory

Where does the soul fragment go if not encompassed into a Horcrux?
Does the soul eventually heal? One wonders if time can heal the evil caused and if so what lasting effects this will have on the soul as a whole. There are many murders Voldemort has committed and only some of them have been made into Horcruxes –his soul must look like a scan of sun damage to the skin.


Method 2 : Splitting your soul in order to power the Avada Kevadra

The order of events would go something like this.

1. Intent to kill requires the split of the soul to power the curse
2. Incantation – Avada Kedavra
3. The person dies
4. Soul remains split

The main idea for support for this theory would be from Imposter Moody's "Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it" and Bellatrix's (slightly unhinged) exclamation of "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy…..You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain, to enjoy it."

Both Imposter Moody and Bellatrix state that you need to invoke powerful magic (not of the good kind judging by the outcome of the spell) either "behind" it or before casting the spell.

Flaws with the theory

Splitting your soul before the actual magic takes affect. Pretty hard to do in reality. What if you do not manage to utter the incantation or mis-aim – then you would have a split soul for nothing. Buuuut, maybe if you do not kill someone to make the soul remain split then it eventually reforms back into one.

Method 3 : Murder, splitting your soul and trapping it into a Horcrux

1. Bring with you an inanimate (choice) object to house your soul
2. Intent to kill –power the curse - split the soul
3. Incantation – Avada Kedavra
4. The person dies
5. Soul split
6. Fragment encased into Horcrux with the use of an encasing spell

We do not know in canon what the encasing spell is, and how it works. Slughorn merely says, "There is a spell, do not ask me…"

I believe that if you need to keep your soul split for a reason (such as Horcrux making) then you have to use method 3 whereby intent and splitting the soul is required. This provides the needed power behind the curse in order to keep your soul split and stop it from trying to heal back with the rest of your soul in your body. I believe that if you kill someone – your soul will split as a by-product of the evil but will eventually reattach to the main soul body as it is in its nature to do so and as it has nowhere else to go.

Lily's sacrifice

A lot has already been said and written about the consequences of Lily's death. Those of you reading probably do not need a background of Lily' character so I won't bother.

MA: Did she know anything about the possible effect of standing in front of Harry?
JKR: No - because as I've tried to make clear in the series, it never happened before. No one ever survived before. And no one, therefore, knew that could happen.

So JKR has specifically told us that Lily did not know what she was about to do would save Harry's life or the implications involved. So bang goes the idea that she knew of some charm that would spare Harry and therefore she did not knowingly entrap Voldemort.

Then it goes back to that question of why did Voldemort give her the choice? Who was she but a muggleborn and a thorn in his side who had defied him three times. Answers to this range through:

- LV wanted to use her charms expertise
- LV wanted her to become a DE
- She was already a DE (huh!)

JKR has told us that Harry's eyes are important, that Harry has his mother's eyes and somehow they will be significant to the whole story. How? What could possibly be so important about his green eyes?

Have Harry's eyes been important from the time of his birth? Or only after Lily died?

Harry's eyes could have been important to the whole story even before his birth – he is a child of prophecy and therefore something about his green eyes could be included under the text – "a power the Dark Lord knows not."

But had Voldemort not bought into the prophecy in the huge way that he did – then would Harry's eyes still have been important?
So could Harry's eyes only have gained their importance after that night in Godric's Hollow?

The question we need to really ask is – what changed about Harry's eyes after Godric's Hollow?
Physically Lily has genetically passed on her green eye colour to Harry from birth – so nothing has changed there. The only other answers I have border on crackpot theorizing,

- Harry witnessed his mother's murder with those green eyes
- The soul split that LV had as a result of killing Lily went into Harry. So Harry carries with him in his scar, forever, LV's soul fragment generated from the death of his own mother.

I would say both are pretty significant ideas. A child witnessing his own mother's murder is horrid – I am not saying Harry now consciously remembers this – I think at the time it happened he may have seen it. Harry's memories under duress give us a small idea of what occurred. This would make sense because I imagine Lily to be clutching Harry when she is screaming for their lives to LV who has to push her out of the way and failing that, has to kill her.

I used to buy into the idea that Harry's scar was a horcrux just because the curse that LV fired at him failed. But when you look deeper into it – as LV did not manage to kill Harry, and his death did not occur – how could a Horcrux have been made? What makes more sense is the death just before (Lily's) may have torn LV's soul and that part embedded itself in the direction of the failed curse –Harry's scar.

What may be more important is the idea of Voldemort only choosing "significant" deaths to create his Horcruxes – and now Harry's scar carries the significance of a failed curse linked to the sacrifice of his own mother. In short, Harry carries with him a piece of LV's soul, which split off from the main soul when Voldemort killed Lily.

How this will play a part in book seven is still a musing i am working on >


scary isn't it?i read it on livejournal.com.

dylan.

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manshi_singh thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#2
cool this is very interesting. It was TEC's debate topic too 😃
jayanti_dj thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 19 years ago
#3
i dont think harrys scar is a horcrux.
KiRaN_K thumbnail
20th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#4
i was thinkin the same...that harry is the horcrux
.Prometheus. thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Trailblazer Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 19 years ago
#5
he could be one of them and thats why it says they both have to die to him to die as well
achal thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#6
Yup, like I've said for ages, Harry's scar is the horcrux...
ishu124 thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#7
omg thtz scary!!!!!! 😕 😳
muqualp thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 19 years ago
#8
thanks but julu the prophecy says that "neither can live while the other survives" it doesnt say he has to die!
potter4ever thumbnail
Posted: 19 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: deepa_jd

i dont think harrys scar is a horcrux.

i think u r right. cause have found some counter-views.hope u will like them.I think the importance of Harry having Lily's green eyes is that it is a physical reminder of her and her sacrifice. Dumbledore has said to Harry time and again that his ability to deal with all of the evil that has forced itself into his life and still be able to love is "the power the Dark Lord knows not". His eyes, through which he sees the world, are the same as his mother's, the woman who made the ultimate love sacrifice by choosing to die before her son.

And just a quick comment on the main part of your essay: the scar. I, for one, think there is no possible way for Harry's scar to be a Horcrux. According to Slughorn, there is a spell needed to make one. LV was vapor after he tried to kill Harry. Harry got his scar as LV turned to vapor. Thus, no LV to use spell to make Harry or any part of Harry a Horcrux. I'm also going by Dumbledore's lack of listing the scar when he and Harry are discussing the Horcruxes. If the scar was a Horcrux, Dumbledore would have figured it out.

I do find your discussion of which comes first, soul splitting or Avada Kedavra, very intriguing. I guess we won't really know until the 7th book, if even then. When it's all written and done, I hope we either know or someone asks JKR what she had in mind, because it's an interesting point.(ciel vert)

i read it on the same site

dylan.

jayanti_dj thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 19 years ago
#10
yah even i dont think the scar can be a horcrux.coz the scar was the only effect of AK ,which hp repelled coz of his mothers protection and nothing else.
i mean of the scar is really a horcrux ,then if hp dies tat would mean LV will himself destroy his soul ,which ofcourse he wont want to
and also if voldemort dies ,then it will be possible for him to come bak frm scar,which is ofcourse not possible.
the prophecy says that one of them will have to die.
that means if hp dies(then as per ur guess,horcrux will be destroyed) and if voldemort gets killed by hp,then he can come bak thru hp.
both possibilities according to me cant be true.

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