Do we have to 'label' relationships? - Page 2

Originally posted by: -JC-

There is a phenomenon explained in Twilight series called "imprinting". The idea is explained as warewolves seeing their soul-mate and imprinting on them...and it didn't matter what age of form the soul-mate was in. In the final book, Jacob 'imprints' on Bella and Edwards daughter...she is a mere newborn infant. How do you explain that phenomenon without grossing out all moral faculties. The writer satisfies the morality of the reader by claiming that there is no sexual connotation to this imprinting. Basically the werewolf that imprints on a child/infant will provide love and care and trust to this person in the form that is required by them at their particular age. He will be a maternal figure when she is a child, a best friend when she is in school and a lover when she matures. That's interesting. I've heard about the 'imprinting' but as I've always consciously stayed away from the Twlight series I never really knew the actual meaning of it.😛

Gulaal met Kesar when he was just entering puberty. She became his best friend, which is what he needed at that time. She became his support. When his parents weren't there to protect him she took on that role. When his parents returned she went back to being his best friend. Now he is a grown man and his needs are different. He needs a wife and not a best friend. So he might expect Gulaal to fulfill that duty too. I don't think he will demand things as a husband because his feelings aren't there because she is his wife, they're just there. Right now he's so confused about what he exactly feels towards her that he may not expect Gulaal to fulfill any duties as of now.

Gulaal on the other hand, has no understanding of this relationship from the view point of Kesar. Gulaal has always seen him as Vasant's kid brother, his biggest dream and shared in that dream with him. So now for Gulaal, Kesar is the manifestation of her love for Vasant. Whether this love for Vasant transfers to Kesar in the form of a husband, is to be seen. As far as i cant tell, Gulaal will not accept Kesar as husband. She will not encourage his advancements just the same way she treated Dushyant when he saw her as anything but his bhabhi. I think at present, she cannot possibly see Kesar in a different light. Though she is slowly beginning to realise that he is a grown man (which is why Jamuna kaki is there as a constant reminder), she will not encourage Kesar's advancements I agree. However, Kesar means more to her than Dushyant or anyone else in the family ever has so I think there MAY come a time when she could question her feelings because I don't think Kesar will back down from his advancements. It all depends on how their scenes are penned in the near future...

Her current state of reluctance and hurt at the actions and dialogs of Kesar, is not because he is suddenly a grown man and she is viewing him differently. But the hurt comes from a loss of the child that she was once attached to. She has no feeling of jealousy per se towards Talli. But just like a mother who is the most important factor in her son's life has difficulty adjusting to her son's admiration of his new wife, Gulaal might feel certain hurt in some situations. But the fact that so far she doesn't feel hurt by Talli shows that she doesn't consider herself to be that person in Kesar's life. She sees herself as merely Kesar's bhabhi and one of the women who had a hand in raising him. Kesar has always been possessive of Gulaal but Gulaal was never seen claiming Kesar for herself. She never said "Mera Kesuda" or anything as such. Even if she had maternal feelings she understood that Panba was his mother and not herself... she must have never seen herself as meaning more to Kesar than Sudha bhabi or Reva or Devika. But what Kesar thought of her might be entirely unknown to her. And just to clarify there was a time in the serial when everyone saw Gulaal as a second mother to Kesar. Even Panba stepped aside and let Gulaal be the disciplinarian in Kesar's life saying that she is like Yashoda was to Krishna. See I don't think she just sees herself merely as Kesar's bhabhi. Though she's never had that possesive streak that Kesar has, she never minded belonging to Kesar as he always claimed 'Gulaal meri hai'. She knew that. I just don't think the feelings can be defined as strictly maternal because even 'normal' wives act as their husband's mothers.


Having said all this.. I have a feeling i know what the writers are intending to do with Kesar and Gulaal. :D I have my predictions about Kesar's state of mind and his hate and love and the confusion along with it...how it will be resolved and what will come of it. But I'll wait till the story progresses a bit more to share my predictions with everyone. Do you think Gulaal will eventually change her feelings towards Kesar? Love story or no love story?😛

Hi, reemz firstly I'll like to start off by apologizing if anything I said whilst posting in this forum offended you, as that was not my attention.
Ok getting back to your, post I have to admit I honestly didn't like it when gulaal 'married' kesar. Don't get me wrong, I understand that she was under allot of pressure to, and she did it purely so that she remain in the house to protect him, and reva. She knew that their lives were in danger reva's by being forced to marry kamlesh, and kesar's as raman and co wanted him dead for property. Paanba couldn't do much, so she took on the role of protector. For me after the scene where she beats kamlesh for attempting to rape reva, where's she cradling a crying reva and kesar to her chest, she resembles a 'mother bear' especially when she declares that 'whilst paanba and motaba aren't here I will protect you'. There she set herself up clearly IMO as somebody who was willing to take on parental responsibility for them.
Another instance where gulaal, was happy to be seen in the parental role was when, after being newlywed to vasant, and during the rasam of pagphera, paanba, commented that with gulaal's coming she felt that kesar had gained a second mother. Gulaal very happily replied that 'yes that is what I will be to kesar'.

There are many instances per marriage, such as when she bounced kesar in her laps and in sing-song voice said she would 'read long bedtime stories every night'. IMO these scenes clearly show her viewing herself happily as a parental figure in his life. Agreed that kesar probably never considered her as such, but gulaal did. Which is why when she 'married' him I found it really disturbing, but was relieved when she proclaimed for everyone to hear that their relationship will always as pure and true as it was per marriage, and that she herself was going to bring her devraini into the house when kesar was grown.
And she did stay true to her word she patiently' continued to take his hand in hers and walk him to and from school. She nagged like a parent to do his homework, eat his food and bathed him with nothing but again IMO motherly affection on her eyes. Her anger when he misbehaved was too t like a mother, like after the time she beat him on the hand after discovering he had gambled. In fact she cried to paanba, that there was 'something lacking in the way she was bringing him up, else why would he gamble'. As I stated in another post the fact that gulaal designated herself the responsibly of raising him, makes it hard to believe that she could ever seriously consider herself having a full blown husband/wife relation with him. As you don't 'raise you husbands, but only your children or younger siblings.

I actually really enjoy the bond between them, and I do think gulaal, albeit the fact I don't like that she married kesar, is a woman of substance and integrity. She's sacrificed allot in the name of love first for vasant, then for the memory of him. She put her maayka's self-respect on the line many times for vasant, first by going to telesgra to home of her own family's most hated enemy. Then by refusing to marry dushere, regardless of the fact he was an enoch, she still would not have married him as she loved vasant. Also she wanted to run away with him.
Then both before and after marriage she endured god knows how many taunts and insults whilst living in his house. Finally after his supposed death, she was really put under pressure, her promise to him, bound her to a house and life which society and social norms wouldn't allow her to do. So in her attempt to fulfill her promise to vasant she 'married' keser.
Furthermore, when she discovered her husband's killer, the man whose actions led her to live first as an 'mahooes' widow who couldn't even pray in peace, took all the colors from her life, then as an result of his demands to marry her, led her to a marriage of connivance with a child, she let that man walk free, Why because her husband loved that man deeply, and couldn't bear to see him nor any other member of his family in pain.

Does this not show how strong her love is for vasant? I honestly can't understand why even after eight years of being parted him, and her love for him is still as strong (if not stronger), as it were the day they first both declared their love for each other, how anyone can even expect her to want another man in her life.
I'm not saying she doesn't have her physical needs and desires as a woman, but simply put tbh no other man but vasant is going to ever fully satisfy those needs. So even if she were to pursue a physical relationship with kesar, would it even be fair to him, knowing that the man that she really wants to be with is vasant?

If I'm honest then I would be really disappointed if they show kesar and gulaal falling in love husband/wife style with each other. Firstly gulaal has stated several times, that not only has she 'always loved vasant, does love him, and always will', she's also said, 'that she was vasants, still is vasant's and will remain vasants'. It's clear to me, that for gulaal, her past, present and future is vasant, so I can't really understand how it can be shown for her to fall in love with someone else, whilst maintaining this stance, and she has been shown to always keeping her word as a strong woman.

Secondly I'm sorry regardless of how kesar views her, she herself IMO as has always maintained a parental stance in his life. So as far as I'm concerned I honestly don't care how many years they have spent apart, the fact that she once saw him with motherly affection, and wanted to raise him bouncing in her laps, makes it plain sick and disgusting that she can one day see him through those same eyes as a man who arises feelings of sexual desire in her. The fact that she isn't biologically related doesn't count for me, as neither are jamuna kaki, nor sudha yet I'm sure if those two suddenly started looking at him sexually people would cause uproar. Genetics have nothing to do with it, if a woman/man adopts an child when there a child then sends them away, and upon their return a few years later begins an husband/wife relationship with them (no matter how gradual it's done), its sick and twisted.

Thirdly, if the show ends with gulaal/kesar happily 'married' and madly in love with each other what does that say about child marriage? That's it's ok, as long as you separate the couple for a few years, as upon being reunited sparks will fly, and under the banner of 'marriage sanctity' love will bloom?! If this show is about breaking social norms, then I beg to differ if this happens, instead of being progressive its regressive IMO to show that such marriages work! I mean there's a reason why this is illegal! If gulaal/kesar have a happy full-blown husband/wife relationship, then what does that in fact say about forced marriages in general? The snowmakers' should at least spare a thought for all those poor children and people who have been forced into marriage and suffer as a result.

My cousin married a girl, and a few weeks into their marriage he was horrified to find out that she had been forced into this relationship. Nothing he did would make her want to be with him, and when he told her parents that he wanted an divorce he was disgusted when they said that, 'they would make their daughter see sense she was married, so baut katum, marriage is final and she must conform and fall in line to the rules of marriage'. What a joke! If the show really wants to be progressive it should show kesar and gulaal rebelling against social norms and fighting to have their marriage annulled. Although mind you as their not legally married, they should just declare were living a sham life and we quite simply refuse to any longer.
IMO a happy gulaal/kesar couple is as good as promoting the virtues of child marriage.

If the snowmakers' happen to read this post, I'm begging you please don't make gulaal/kesar a couple with a proper husband wife relationship. They have a beautiful deep bond, which you have shown wonderfully. I would go as far as to say that they are soulmates to each other. They mirror each other, both threw stones in anger, both secretly write their innermost feelings (gulaal to vasant, kesar to gulaal); they're both stubborn, strong willed, honorable, and loyal.
Your soulmate can be anyone, your mother, siblings, twin, lover, best friend, and gulaal has found hers in kesar. So please don't show her marring this bond, whilst kesar is her soulmate, vasant is her one true love, and no one can take his place, as no one can take kesar's place.

Finally I'm sorry if I have offended anyone with my post, I honestly don't mean to, and I know that as of yet there has been no indication of gulaal falling for kesar, but as rumors and hints flood this forum and show, I just wanted to say that I honestly am not happy and feel quite sick about it all.
Once again I'm sorry If ive upset anyone.

Originally posted by: suki11

Hi, reemz firstly I'll like to start off by apologizing if anything I said whilst posting in this forum offended you, as that was not my attention.
Ok getting back to your, post I have to admit I honestly didn't like it when gulaal 'married' kesar. Don't get me wrong, I understand that she was under allot of pressure to, and she did it purely so that she remain in the house to protect him, and reva. She knew that their lives were in danger reva's by being forced to marry kamlesh, and kesar's as raman and co wanted him dead for property. Paanba couldn't do much, so she took on the role of protector. For me after the scene where she beats kamlesh for attempting to rape reva, where's she cradling a crying reva and kesar to her chest, she resembles a 'mother bear' especially when she declares that 'whilst paanba and motaba aren't here I will protect you'. There she set herself up clearly IMO as somebody who was willing to take on parental responsibility for them.
Another instance where gulaal, was happy to be seen in the parental role was when, after being newlywed to vasant, and during the rasam of pagphera, paanba, commented that with gulaal's coming she felt that kesar had gained a second mother. Gulaal very happily replied that 'yes that is what I will be to kesar'.

There are many instances per marriage, such as when she bounced kesar in her laps and in sing-song voice said she would 'read long bedtime stories every night'. IMO these scenes clearly show her viewing herself happily as a parental figure in his life. Agreed that kesar probably never considered her as such, but gulaal did. Which is why when she 'married' him I found it really disturbing, but was relieved when she proclaimed for everyone to hear that their relationship will always as pure and true as it was per marriage, and that she herself was going to bring her devraini into the house when kesar was grown.
And she did stay true to her word she patiently' continued to take his hand in hers and walk him to and from school. She nagged like a parent to do his homework, eat his food and bathed him with nothing but again IMO motherly affection on her eyes. Her anger when he misbehaved was too t like a mother, like after the time she beat him on the hand after discovering he had gambled. In fact she cried to paanba, that there was 'something lacking in the way she was bringing him up, else why would he gamble'. As I stated in another post the fact that gulaal designated herself the responsibly of raising him, makes it hard to believe that she could ever seriously consider herself having a full blown husband/wife relation with him. As you don't 'raise you husbands, but only your children or younger siblings.

I actually really enjoy the bond between them, and I do think gulaal, albeit the fact I don't like that she married kesar, is a woman of substance and integrity. She's sacrificed allot in the name of love first for vasant, then for the memory of him. She put her maayka's self-respect on the line many times for vasant, first by going to telesgra to home of her own family's most hated enemy. Then by refusing to marry dushere, regardless of the fact he was an enoch, she still would not have married him as she loved vasant. Also she wanted to run away with him.
Then both before and after marriage she endured god knows how many taunts and insults whilst living in his house. Finally after his supposed death, she was really put under pressure, her promise to him, bound her to a house and life which society and social norms wouldn't allow her to do. So in her attempt to fulfill her promise to vasant she 'married' keser.
Furthermore, when she discovered her husband's killer, the man whose actions led her to live first as an 'mahooes' widow who couldn't even pray in peace, took all the colors from her life, then as an result of his demands to marry her, led her to a marriage of connivance with a child, she let that man walk free, Why because her husband loved that man deeply, and couldn't bear to see him nor any other member of his family in pain.

Does this not show how strong her love is for vasant? I honestly can't understand why even after eight years of being parted him, and her love for him is still as strong (if not stronger), as it were the day they first both declared their love for each other, how anyone can even expect her to want another man in her life.
I'm not saying she doesn't have her physical needs and desires as a woman, but simply put tbh no other man but vasant is going to ever fully satisfy those needs. So even if she were to pursue a physical relationship with kesar, would it even be fair to him, knowing that the man that she really wants to be with is vasant?

If I'm honest then I would be really disappointed if they show kesar and gulaal falling in love husband/wife style with each other. Firstly gulaal has stated several times, that not only has she 'always loved vasant, does love him, and always will', she's also said, 'that she was vasants, still is vasant's and will remain vasants'. It's clear to me, that for gulaal, her past, present and future is vasant, so I can't really understand how it can be shown for her to fall in love with someone else, whilst maintaining this stance, and she has been shown to always keeping her word as a strong woman.

Secondly I'm sorry regardless of how kesar views her, she herself IMO as has always maintained a parental stance in his life. So as far as I'm concerned I honestly don't care how many years they have spent apart, the fact that she once saw him with motherly affection, and wanted to raise him bouncing in her laps, makes it plain sick and disgusting that she can one day see him through those same eyes as a man who arises feelings of sexual desire in her. The fact that she isn't biologically related doesn't count for me, as neither are jamuna kaki, nor sudha yet I'm sure if those two suddenly started looking at him sexually people would cause uproar. Genetics have nothing to do with it, if a woman/man adopts an child when there a child then sends them away, and upon their return a few years later begins an husband/wife relationship with them (no matter how gradual it's done), its sick and twisted.

Thirdly, if the show ends with gulaal/kesar happily 'married' and madly in love with each other what does that say about child marriage? That's it's ok, as long as you separate the couple for a few years, as upon being reunited sparks will fly, and under the banner of 'marriage sanctity' love will bloom?! If this show is about breaking social norms, then I beg to differ if this happens, instead of being progressive its regressive IMO to show that such marriages work! I mean there's a reason why this is illegal! If gulaal/kesar have a happy full-blown husband/wife relationship, then what does that in fact say about forced marriages in general? The snowmakers' should at least spare a thought for all those poor children and people who have been forced into marriage and suffer as a result.

My cousin married a girl, and a few weeks into their marriage he was horrified to find out that she had been forced into this relationship. Nothing he did would make her want to be with him, and when he told her parents that he wanted an divorce he was disgusted when they said that, 'they would make their daughter see sense she was married, so baut katum, marriage is final and she must conform and fall in line to the rules of marriage'. What a joke! If the show really wants to be progressive it should show kesar and gulaal rebelling against social norms and fighting to have their marriage annulled. Although mind you as their not legally married, they should just declare were living a sham life and we quite simply refuse to any longer.
IMO a happy gulaal/kesar couple is as good as promoting the virtues of child marriage.

If the snowmakers' happen to read this post, I'm begging you please don't make gulaal/kesar a couple with a proper husband wife relationship. They have a beautiful deep bond, which you have shown wonderfully. I would go as far as to say that they are soulmates to each other. They mirror each other, both threw stones in anger, both secretly write their innermost feelings (gulaal to vasant, kesar to gulaal); they're both stubborn, strong willed, honorable, and loyal.
Your soulmate can be anyone, your mother, siblings, twin, lover, best friend, and gulaal has found hers in kesar. So please don't show her marring this bond, whilst kesar is her soulmate, vasant is her one true love, and no one can take his place, as no one can take kesar's place.

Finally I'm sorry if I have offended anyone with my post, I honestly don't mean to, and I know that as of yet there has been no indication of gulaal falling for kesar, but as rumors and hints flood this forum and show, I just wanted to say that I honestly am not happy and feel quite sick about it all.
Once again I'm sorry If ive upset anyone.

@reemz
Aww I'm glad I didn't offend you!
Coming back to you post firstly I don't class gulaal/kesar as being married, for me legality counts, and no court in the whole of India would ever view them as man and wife, as kesar was no man when they got 'married'.
But as this fictional entertainment and tricky things like the law are just matters of inconvience, or something that can be twisted and interpreted to suit each individual character, then guess anything goes lol.

Secondly I honestly don't think gulaal ever once saw herself as kesar's wife, if you've watched episodes where someone or kesar refer to her as his wife she flinches, looks away, or has an extremely embarrassed look on her face. When their asked to perform any customs as man and wife she looks pained, at reva's wedding when kesar was asking 'what are we supposed to do?' she ignored his question and did the rasam with paanba. In fact I don't think she looked at him once during that rasam. And in the recent rasam they did for rohan, she clearly didn't like having to do it and made talli sit with them as well. Also never once has she referred to herself as 'kesar's wife' nor has she ever referred to him as her husband. In fact when kesar used to question that 'your my wife right?' or 'tell them your my wife', she maintains her embrassed face, and looks around as if slightly pleading for someone to help her out. Suffice to say that 'marrying' kesar is not one of the proudest moments of her life.

I think she only 'married' him aside from the obvious reasons of protecting him, wanting to honor her promise to vasant, because he was 'safe' to marry. I mean as a young child he wouldn't want her perform any wifely duties, and and he couldn't impose his will or demands on her. For instance when kesar is insisting she answer why he's been moved out room, she could easily ignore his demands and leave with dushant to sort out the dushere problem.
Again I don't know if she actually well and truly sees herself as his mother, but she certainly looks happier when people refer to her as a second mother in his life as opposed to his wife.
For me it's clearly a role she would much rather be in, and the instances and examples I stated previously both pertaining to and after marriage strongly indicate IMO that, that this is role she sees herself in.
And if she really thought of him as her 'husband' then why is she encouraging talli to become closer to him? Didn't she say that when their older that they could get married? If she really believed in their marriage and saw him as her husband I don't think she would ever suggest such a thing.

So I don't think she's 'demented' for viewing herself as such, because she doesn't see kesar as her husband. For her vasant is her husband, as she's convinced he's alive, when she puts sindoor on it's for vasant not kesar. She only wore widow white, as society and jamana kaki wouldn't allow her to live in peace if she didn't. But in her heart she's still believes he's alive and he will return to her.
I think the reason why I don't want her falling in love with someone else, is that gulaal is someone who has been shown to stay true to their word. She's insisted several times that she will only always love vasant no other, and that she is his only. So I wouldn't like to see her back down from this stance. But if she does, and as long as the guys not kesar, I'm not going to be throwing stones at her, and would probably be like if she's happy then good. I mean it's not like she needs my permission or anything!

I don't watch BV so I'm not going to comment much about that show expect to say if its promoting child marriage, then it's wrong plain and simple. Anyone who compels, pressures, coerces or forces children or even adults, into the bond of marriage, is committing a crime plain and simple. And any show that shows individuals of such marriage living happily ever after with a full husband/wife relation, is to me showing that crime pays. It doesn't and it's a huge insult to the millions if not billions of people that have been through/living such traumatic experiences. Plus it's a disgusting slur on what the marriage is meant to be.

I agree that the kesar/gulaal relationship is something that cannot be easily defined. For me they are soulmates, he summoned up gulaal's reasons to live after parting from vasant, and she was his support after losing the brother he revered as much as revered god himself.
But I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this point lol, I really do think its sick if they fall in love as I do think she looked at him through the eyes of an mother, and this is the reason if the whole sexual element does enter their relationship, that would make me go ewww, and say 'pass the sick bucket over'. IMO its nigh on impossible to raise a child as your own, then after being parted upon being reunited and seeing the child is child no more, move on to seeing them in a whole different light that includes an sexual manner. For me that is sick

Originally posted by: *Reemz*

@Lennie: I just wished the critics would not just take this as a simple marriage between an older woman and a young child. Why not actually watch Gulaal and Kesar scenes and judge their relationship through a different viewpoint? I don't think these people even watch the show regularly but instead jump to conclusions on what they've heard. As usual, I agree with everything you've said :)

@rajeevsurbhi & nirma1: I think more than the age gap, the issue is with the age of Kesar when he married Gulaal which fair enough is controversial but they had their own relationship which was neither sexual nor did I think Gulaal is mothering Kesar :\ Now it may become more Gulaal was everything to Kesar and after Vasant died, Kesar became the most important person in her life.

@sameera_ori: I don't need to add anything to your post. You pretty much said it all. We all have this intuitive habit to put a tag on a relationship between a male and female but is it right? We should judge each bond on its own merit.

@Pocahontas: Exactly!! Kesar always called her by 'Tu', she was his equal because he never needed a mother in Gulaal, he saw a true friend and strong support in her. LOL no you were watching the same show but I think certain people passing remarks don't watch the show at all!

nice post and i agree its so practical for kesar to love his wife............. for him gulaal is his childhood friend his companion his wife he has grown with his intense feeling towards gulaal he has faded memory of vasant and gulaal relationshiptionship coz it was for short time........ vasant and gulaal were together for 2 months but his and gulaal relationship is more than 8 years for ..he was small but he knew gulaal was his wife and he had no regret for it he knew that gulaal is all his this ..he mentioned many times as kid... "tum meri ho gulaal ".......for 8 years a person is considering gulaal his wife how and why there should be reason for not loving his wife?????but the things are not easy for gulaal she has cared for kesar since he was child she has bathed him, told him stories, made him read , slapped him for his wrong deeds.............i dont understand how gulaal will see kesar as her man her husband,..................its way above imagination.....its sooooooo complex ..............will be interesting to watch lets see what writers have in thier mind............